VLM Airlines news 2016

[Flanker2]

Did he not launch Erevan-Brussels with a Delsey A330? How would you call that?

He had a contract with a local agency (think it was for 70 or 90 seats), enough for a basic feeder. Once that contract was broken up, Erevan ended.

That's one of my points. They were over-reliant on travel agencies for sales in their Delsey venture, while they had no direct sales points, especially on the internet. This is in my opinion one of the main reasons for the Delsey failure, after of course, government resistance and hasty decision-making.


But seriously, this one has SN written all over it.
Gustin's team and LH would be idiots to pass this up. They can really give their BRU hub a boost in connections and gain market share while solidifying yields on their longhaul flights.

Forget the ANR hub or reverse hub concepts. There are only few very precise scenario's in which this COULD work and there are easier ways to invest capital.

[Passenger]

They were over-reliant on travel agencies for sales in their Delsey venture, while they had no direct sales points, especially on the internet. This is in my opinion one of the main reasons for the Delsey failure, after of course, government resistance and hasty decision-making.

No sales point on internet? They had a very normal, good working online booking engine. Absolutely sure. The only difference with other carriers, regarding travel agencies, was that they offered 9% commission, against 7 (or less) by the others.

But seriously, this one has SN written all over it. Gustin's team and LH would be idiots to pass this up. They can really give their BRU hub a boost in connections and gain market share while solidifying yields on their longhaul flights.

Finally, there it is: Gustin & co are idiots. They don't believe in your feeder plans Eindhoven-Brussels and Antwerp-Brussels.

[Inquirer]

Whoever comes to their rescue, I think it will only happen AFTER a bankruptcy in order to free them from unwanted financial obligations.
Personally I hope they will be able to make a relaunch: there's a little place under the sun for a Belgian regional airlines IMHO, especially as Brussels Airlines will soon have nothing smaller than the A319.
I agree with the idea to try to enter in partnership with them (next to a few routes commercialized by themselves?) because it's their best chance for steady revenues, but then Van Gaver may not be the best buyer: he's not having a compatible background with the people running Brussels Airlines at present nor in fact with that of its future owners in Germany.

[Ozzie1969]

I think most people here don't really consider that most people flying have absolutely no idea about aviation at all. Most couldn't see the difference between an Airbus A320 and a Boeing 737. And they don't want to know about all the different possibilities to fly from A to B. They just go to a travel agency and the travel agent tells them what possibilities they have.

We shouldn't use ourselves (aviation enthusiasts to a man) as the yardstick to measure most air travelers with. More in particular when it concerns VLM, very few travel agents are going to use them as a feeder airline to a larger airline, simply because that's not how VLM works (or fails to work, apparently).

[Passenger]

Whoever comes to their rescue, I think it will only happen AFTER a bankruptcy in order to free them from unwanted financial obligations.

Agree. It will be much easier to negociate with one liquidator then with several debtors. With a bankruptcy, it’s clean sheet.

However, the protection against bankruptcy (WCO/LCE) could well be accepted: the debts are mainly caused by the past: the closure of VLM Netherlands, the adventures at LGG and some other failed new routes. Investments from CityJet were high but weren't enough, but I’m sure they’ve filed a good recovery plan.

We shouldn't use ourselves (aviation enthusiasts to a man) as the yardstick to measure most air travelers with. More in particular when it concerns VLM, very few travel agents are going to use them as a feeder airline to a larger airline, simply because that's not how VLM works (or fails to work, apparently).

When an airline operatest to/from airports with a short runway and without long haul, it’s very very difficult to use them as feeder. Going from Belgium to LHR via ANR-LCY doesn’t make sense when you can fly BRU-LHR.

[lumumba]

They can feed other airports than Heathrow ...
Munich for example ...

[sn26567]

They can feed other airports than Heathrow ...
Munich for example ...

Like bmi from LGG ?

[AAI]

LGG is of course not ANR! sn26567
but the relation BA/LH makes this impossible as feeder

[lumumba]

They can feed other airports than Heathrow ...
Munich for example ...

Like bmi from LGG ?

It was just an example...

[Flanker2]

Lumumba, all carriers who need feeding at their hubs have their own or codeshare feeder flights to BRU.
You can do this in a limited way like SQ or CX flights in CDG or other carriers who are rebel in alliance hubs.

But you need a lot of partnerships to get enough work for an entire fleet of F50's.
It can be done, but it's insanely complicated.

I agree with the idea to try to enter in partnership with them (next to a few routes commercialized by themselves?) because it's their best chance for steady revenues, but then Van Gaver may not be the best buyer: he's not having a compatible background with the people running Brussels Airlines at present nor in fact with that of its future owners in Germany.

If SN gets involved, I don't see the need for Van Gaever.
If they don't, I really wonder what market FVG can find for VLM. Convert the F50's to cargo and partner with ASL/Fedex + charter work? There is a market for a VG-like carrier as main carrier at a mini-hub, but not in ANR or Friedrichshafen. Not in Belgium for that matter.
There are cities that can use such an operation.

[FLYAIR10]

For the optimists amongst us and who can afford :



Grtz.

[cathay belgium]

Hi,

Thought advertisement promotion for gambling products where prohibited

CXB

[koja78]

A usefull feeder line for SN would be LUX-BRU ... just my two cents

[jan_olieslagers]

... which did exist at one time. I think it was discontinued at the same time as the feeder from Düsseldorf - which had a _very_ long tradition.

[sn26567]

Sabena indeed operated LUX-BRU several times per day (I think 4x). Sabena also operated feeders from Eindhoven (this was discussed above) with smaller planes (like the EMB120).

[Passenger]

Sabena indeed operated LUX-BRU several times per day (I think 4x).

Indeed. But those were the days that the E411/E25 weren't ready yet, and one had to leave the E411 and join the N4 to get to Luxemburg. And those were the days when one had to drive through Luxemburg city to get to the airport. The time difference between air and road was substantial at that time, specially during winter.

[luchtzak]

Sabena indeed operated LUX-BRU several times per day (I think 4x).

Indeed. But those were the days that the E411/E25 weren't ready yet, and one had to leave the E411 and join the N4 to get to Luxemburg. And those were the days when one had to drive through Luxemburg city to get to the airport. The time difference between air and road was substantial at that time, specially during winter.

Until the Sabena bankruptcy ...

[jan_olieslagers]

Today, an express train from Luxembourg city to Zaventem Airport would perhaps be the best compromise, especially with not too many stops - only Namur or so? But I am afraid there is a lack of commercial drive to start such a service, with them 19th century minded train operators.

[Flanker2]

Today, an express train from Luxembourg city to Zaventem Airport would perhaps be the best compromise, especially with not too many stops - only Namur or so? But I am afraid there is a lack of commercial drive to start such a service, with them 19th century minded train operators.

A flight schedule is a much better solution. Who wants to drag bags around at a station?
Honestly this is the problem with the current generation of senior managers: they think that pax will climb over mountains to be on their flights. Then they wonder why their airplanes are flyig out with low load factors.
NO! You have to go get the pax, even if it's a 20 minutes flight away.

Pax search flights from their nearest airport first. If they find a satisfactory solution, they will book it.
If not, they will start searching from airports further and further away. Then they will weigh the inconveniences over the savings. The chances that pax from LUX will drive, or fetch a train to BRU are very small compared to the market size, unless you are going for the ultra low yield pax who wiill find CRL more convenient for shorthaul.

[SLM]

If VLM goes bankrupt, what about Vizion Air?
Many thanks for your answers.