Reopening Brussels Airport after the 22/03/2016 terror attacks

[Flanker2]

So it seems that there are no queues outside now despite the pre-screening.
Was that so difficult? It took BRU weeks to achieve this, which boggles my mind.

Also, I would like to ask the idiots around here who were against maintaining the pre-screening what justification they have now to still advocate a removal?
There are no queues anymore and the airport building can be considered secure enough to discourage aother attack. Maintaining the pre-screening is a significant enough deterrent to force the terrorists to chose other, easier targets. The risk is moved to other places but if casualties have to happen anyway, the impact on the economy would be easier to contain (unless they go for a nuclear plant, a scenario that we read in the media nowadays).

A Belgian nuclear power plant may have been the target of an aborted plot by the ISIS cell that carried out this week’s terrorist attacks in Brussels, according to Belgian media.
(...)
Belgian newspaper La Derniere Heure reported Thursday, based on a police source, that the brothers who died in suicide bombings at the Brussels airport and subway — Khalid and Ibrahim el Bakraoui — had been involved in secret video surveillance of a senior scientist who worked at the Tihange complex.

http://time.com/4271854/belgium-isis-nu ... -brussels/

So if business or other travelllers avoid BRU now, it's no longer a matter of being safe inside the airport building, nor about having to get into long queues.

[b720]

Seriously Flanker? Safer now? Suicide bomber can t detonate himself in the white tent if pulled aside for control? Killing him/herself and those around him. These measures are ridiculous.
The real work is in molenbeek and other ghettos, not in the pathetic white tent.

[sn26567]

So it seems that there are no queues outside now despite the pre-screening.
Was that so difficult? It took BRU weeks to achieve this, which boggles my mind.

BRU is not responsible for the chaos. The police unions are: they asked for the pre-checks on everybody. Only when put under pressure by public opinion did they change their mind in a meeting with Interior Ministry.

Since when do unions, and in particular police unions, rule a country? It is about time to change the system and let the responsible people decide, each in their specific tasks.

[sean1982]

So it seems that there are no queues outside now despite the pre-screening.
Was that so difficult? It took BRU weeks to achieve this, which boggles my mind.

Also, I would like to ask the idiots around here who were against maintaining the pre-screening what justification they have now to still advocate a removal?
There are no queues anymore and the airport building can be considered secure enough to discourage aother attack. Maintaining the pre-screening is a significant enough deterrent to force the terrorists to chose other, easier targets.

Safer now?
So they all learned to profile overnight? In the israelian secret service the profiling course takes a year. It's much more then just looking in a crowd and see who wears a long white robe with a black beard

[Passenger]

Also, I would like to ask the idiots around here who were against...

Says who?

[barnabelg]

So if business or other travelllers avoid BRU now, it's no longer a matter of being safe inside the airport building, nor about having to get into long queues.

No, it's a matter of having to go through these pre-checks in the first place.

I'm happy for passengers leaving from BRU that the queues are gone. But personally I will continue avoiding BRU (if at all possible) until the situation is back as it used to be (and as it is in any other European airport). Those pre-checks are a dangerous precedent and I will do nothing that gives even the slightest impression that I'm OK with them.

[teach]

So it seems that there are no queues outside now despite the pre-screening.
Was that so difficult? It took BRU weeks to achieve this, which boggles my mind.

Also, I would like to ask the idiots around here who were against maintaining the pre-screening what justification they have now to still advocate a removal?
There are no queues anymore and the airport building can be considered secure enough to discourage aother attack. Maintaining the pre-screening is a significant enough deterrent to force the terrorists to chose other, easier targets. The risk is moved to other places but if casualties have to happen anyway, the impact on the economy would be easier to contain (unless they go for a nuclear plant, a scenario that we read in the media nowadays).

So if business or other travelllers avoid BRU now, it's no longer a matter of being safe inside the airport building, nor about having to get into long queues.

First off: thanks for calling us 'idiots'. Really raises the level of discourse here. Makes the place look yet a little more like kindergarten! Well done!

Second: what bothered us most of all was the fact that EVERYone was checked, and the disastrous effects that was having on the airport's reputation. That is gone now.

That having been said, I still don't believe this is the way to go about things. Much better to spend all that extra money on actual counter-terrorism. It will have a lot more effect, because this is still doing nothing more than moving the risk to any of the thousands of other potential targets. The idea that how the economy goes will depend on whether the airport gets hit again is also nonsense: we're at a point where any short to medium-term attack anywhere in Belgium will have disastrous consequences on the economy, no matter if it happens at the airport or anywhere else.

But at least the queues are gone. I don't particularly like the current situation, but I can live with it. Temporarily at least. The Kiss & Fly NEEDS to be restored, as well as access to non-passengers.

[convair]

So it seems that there are no queues outside now despite the pre-screening.
Was that so difficult? It took BRU weeks to achieve this, which boggles my mind.

They didn't dare to tell you that Flanker, but if the queues are gone, it's because the pre-screening is almost gone. :shh: So everyone (even the police unions!) has finally understood that this pre-sceening is a stupid idea. Profiling and random checks are a totally different thing.

A Belgian nuclear power plant may have been the target of an aborted plot by the ISIS cell that carried out this week’s terrorist attacks in Brussels, according to Belgian media.
(...)
Belgian newspaper La Derniere Heure reported Thursday, based on a police source, that the brothers who died in suicide bombings at the Brussels airport and subway — Khalid and Ibrahim el Bakraoui — had been involved in secret video surveillance of a senior scientist who worked at the Tihange complex.

http://time.com/4271854/belgium-isis-nu ... -brussels/

So if business or other travelllers avoid BRU now, it's no longer a matter of being safe inside the airport building, nor about having to get into long queues.

This is old news you are refering to, well before the pre-screening was put in place: the article in Time is dated March 25.

You are trying again to hide your lack of valid arguments behind a smoke screen.

[Conti764]

Now the next thing they need to start working on is restoring the Kiss & Fly. Dropping passengers off in the parking towers can not be a permanent solution.

The kiss and fly should never come back. People kept abusing this 'gesture' in a way it created huge traffic jams and chaos on the kiss and fly..

[convair]

This "gesture", as you call it, is just a normal thing that exists in many airports around the world! But in most of them the police is there and does not allow "abuses".

[teach]

The kiss and fly should never come back. People kept abusing this 'gesture' in a way it created huge traffic jams and chaos on the kiss and fly..

The what do you suggest as an alternative?

[teach]

This "gesture", as you call it, is just a normal thing that exists in many airports around the world! But in most of them the police is there and does not allow "abuses".

Exactly! You don't abolish a perfectly good system because some people abuse it. You stop the abuse.

[evyncke]

Just my thoughts: I'm afraid that, as long as this pre-check will continue, passenger numbers will suffer. There is the fact that you will loose extra time ( more limited now ) and I'm not sure that all people want to fly in or out a semi warzone. BRU is the only airport in Western Europe doing this, and with a lot of airports not too far away, it will hurt them ( and the airlines ) I'm afraid.

Indeed, they 'may' have fixed the delay issue but the 'perception' by foreigners (and even Belgian) is bad bad bad...

[Conti764]

This "gesture", as you call it, is just a normal thing that exists in many airports around the world! But in most of them the police is there and does not allow "abuses".

The system the geniuses of BAC invented for BRU, was in nothing comparable to what other airports have. The fish bone structure invited people to not use the infrastructure as it was intended, a true kiss and ride, but as some vip parking. And like Belgians are, many people found it only logical rules and laws only apply to others, not to themselves.

There was a time there was enough police at the airport to do basic police tasks, amongst them traffic regulation in front of the airport and don't say it wasn't like that because I know it was. But although everybody who has a drivers license should know what this sign means, many people choose to ignore it and when they got a remark from the patroling police and moved their car, another schmuck took the opportunity to take that place once the police turned their back.

In the meantime, the federal government in all its wisdom decided safety budgets should cut back, reducing in less police on the streets and thus also in and around the airport, resulting in huge traffic jams and chaos on the departure zone because 'we' Belgians lack the discipline to obey the law and respect basic rules if no police is present.

The what do you suggest as an alternative?

What I suggest is one floor in one of the parking buildings (preferably P1 since it is the largest, closest to the airport) adapted to the kiss and ride (fly) system, with people being allowed up to 20' for free between entry and exit in this zone. When people surpass this time frame, they have to go up one floor and park and pay the normal rates. This way people who choose to just drop somebody of, can do so without extra cost without 'secuding' them to park illegaly, while those who choose to get inside and say goodbye can do so as well. Limit direct access to the ramp of the departure hall to taxi's and public transportation only.

[nordikcam]

Conti764 your suggestion is exactly what I saw at LAX ( Terminal 5 for departure ) and Main Terminal 3 when arrived ...in february 2016.

[sn26567]

One could also apply the Geneva system: everybody who enters the kiss and ride zone has to get a ticket which allows 10 minutes free of charge, and thereafter an expensive parking fee.

[tsx]

Also, I would like to ask the idiots around here who were against maintaining the pre-screening what justification they have now to still advocate a removal?

Because they were* useless.

Can you tell which airports in the world do pre-screening before entering the terminal ?

I guess next time I'm fly in BEY or TLV, I'll tell the security guys that they are idiots because they don't pre-screen.

* BTW, for all intent and purposes, it looks there's no removal to advocate anymore. it's gone

[tsx]

One could also apply the Geneva system: everybody who enters the kiss and ride zone has to get a ticket which allows 10 minutes free of charge, and thereafter an expensive parking fee.

That's P1 / short term parking.

On top, there's another (real) "Kiss and Fly" zone without parking.
The layout is different : that's a single queue, where it's not possible to park (see https://www.signal.ch/content/uploads/2 ... tezone.jpg)
It's worse when people have to unload car trunks, but on the other hand it's impossible to stay/park.

Not sure which layout I prefer.

[RoMax]

The system the geniuses of BAC invented for BRU, was in nothing comparable to what other airports have. The fish bone structure invited people to not use the infrastructure as it was intended, a true kiss and ride, but as some vip parking. And like Belgians are, many people found it only logical rules and laws only apply to others, not to themselves.

The fish bone structure was actually an efficient way to cope with the extremely short curb that BRU has (especially departures). When comparing the length of the curb, number of driving lanes (or as in case of BRU also drive-out lane), place for 'holding' etc., BRU coped with a very high amount of cars in such a small area compared to other comparable airports in Europe. However a re-arrangement was planned to further improve the situation and a strict time-limit (for free drop-off) would be imposed in the future (of course until 22/03 changed all that).

I agree though that there was not enough control to send people away that were indeed using it as some kind of VIP parking in front of the door.

[Flanker2]

So it seems that there are no queues outside now despite the pre-screening.
Was that so difficult? It took BRU weeks to achieve this, which boggles my mind.

Also, I would like to ask the idiots around here who were against maintaining the pre-screening what justification they have now to still advocate a removal?
There are no queues anymore and the airport building can be considered secure enough to discourage aother attack. Maintaining the pre-screening is a significant enough deterrent to force the terrorists to chose other, easier targets. The risk is moved to other places but if casualties have to happen anyway, the impact on the economy would be easier to contain (unless they go for a nuclear plant, a scenario that we read in the media nowadays).

So if business or other travelllers avoid BRU now, it's no longer a matter of being safe inside the airport building, nor about having to get into long queues.

First off: thanks for calling us 'idiots'. Really raises the level of discourse here. Makes the place look yet a little more like kindergarten! Well done!

Second: what bothered us most of all was the fact that EVERYone was checked, and the disastrous effects that was having on the airport's reputation. That is gone now.

That having been said, I still don't believe this is the way to go about things. Much better to spend all that extra money on actual counter-terrorism. It will have a lot more effect, because this is still doing nothing more than moving the risk to any of the thousands of other potential targets. The idea that how the economy goes will depend on whether the airport gets hit again is also nonsense: we're at a point where any short to medium-term attack anywhere in Belgium will have disastrous consequences on the economy, no matter if it happens at the airport or anywhere else.

But at least the queues are gone. I don't particularly like the current situation, but I can live with it. Temporarily at least. The Kiss & Fly NEEDS to be restored, as well as access to non-passengers.

It's too late for counter-terrorism. Syria, Lybia and Ukraine are failures of European and U.S. foreign policy.
They are the Afghanistan and Iraq of recent times. It's about oil on the Syria-Israeli border, oil elsewhere and gas
What many of you seem to forget is that IT ALREADY HAPPENED and they were very successful.
BRU was in chaos, many people were affected, media worldwide reported it.
Do you think that they will be shy to do it again if BRU is exposed wide open again?

So if business or other travelllers avoid BRU now, it's no longer a matter of being safe inside the airport building, nor about having to get into long queues.

No, it's a matter of having to go through these pre-checks in the first place.

I'm happy for passengers leaving from BRU that the queues are gone. But personally I will continue avoiding BRU (if at all possible) until the situation is back as it used to be (and as it is in any other European airport). Those pre-checks are a dangerous precedent and I will do nothing that gives even the slightest impression that I'm OK with them.

You want to avoid BRU because you maybe pulled aside to be checked before entering the building?
What are you planning to carry, explosives?

Safer now?
So they all learned to profile overnight? In the israelian secret service the profiling course takes a year. It's much more then just looking in a crowd and see who wears a long white robe with a black beard

Do you think that you need a PHD to do a simple profiling?
I don't think that Jan Verhagen travelling with his wife and 3 children are a risk.
Young Abdel Hamad travelling alone will be subjected to a check.
Sure it's racial profiling, it's segregation, it's, it's. You can complain all you want, Belgium is at war and police are also doing ID checks in the streets.

I don't particularily like it, but hey, it's not like we are in Syria and people are bombing our houses and then nobody knows who did it. Stop complaining about queueless pre-screenings and lack of kiss & ride, this is war.