Brussels Airlines future and financial perspective

[Jetter]

For the first time a spokesperson for Brussels Airlines gives a figure for the losses incurred by the company due to the attacks: 5 million euros per day. This corroborates what Bernard Gustin said earlier: tens of millions of euros in total. And it is not likely to stop soon, since Brussels Airport will recover very slowly.

This is a staggering loss, to put it into perspective: it's already higher than the profit over 2015. If they want to survive SN needs to have operations back to somewhat normal within 2 weeks from now imo.

SN is seriously bleeding, more than any other airline. Hence it looks reasonable to allocate the first available slots to Brussels Airlines once the airport reopens. Allo? Slot coordinator?

That might seem reasonable to you, but that's in no way an acceptable criterium for slot allocation. I'm not saying SN shouldn't be 1st in line, just that 'bleeding' isn't a valid argument.

2. The Member State responsible for a schedules facilitated or coordinated
airport shall ensure:
(a) that at a schedules facilitated airport, the schedules facilitator acts under this Regulation in an independent, neutral, non-discriminatory and transparent manner;
(b) the independence of the coordinator at a coordinated airport by separating the coordinator functionally from any single interested party. The system of financing the coordinators' activities shall be such as to guarantee the coordinator's independent status;
(c) that the coordinator acts according to this Regulation in a neutral, non-discriminatory and transparent way.

[flymd11]

The price LH is willing to pay for the rest of SN must be dropping every day.

[b720]

They might decide that they do not want to own an airline based in Belgium!!! and who would blame them?

[sean1982]

SN is seriously bleeding, more than any other airline. Hence it looks reasonable to allocate the first available slots to Brussels Airlines once the airport reopens. Allo? Slot coordinator?

That might seem reasonable to you, but that's in no way an acceptable criterium for slot allocation. I'm not saying SN shouldn't be 1st in line, just that 'bleeding' isn't a valid argument.

2. The Member State responsible for a schedules facilitated or coordinated
airport shall ensure:
(a) that at a schedules facilitated airport, the schedules facilitator acts under this Regulation in an independent, neutral, non-discriminatory and transparent manner;
(b) the independence of the coordinator at a coordinated airport by separating the coordinator functionally from any single interested party. The system of financing the coordinators' activities shall be such as to guarantee the coordinator's independent status;
(c) that the coordinator acts according to this Regulation in a neutral, non-discriminatory and transparent way.

JAF is also bleeding money, FR is also bleeding money, HQ is also bleeding money. There is a lot of displeasure amongst the airlines (not only FR) about the favouritism that is on display and that an INDEPENDENT slot coördinator should be exactly that. Independent.

If the favouritism to SN last for longer then a couple of days, this will sure go to court as "concurrentievervalsing"

[b720]

Sean, The airport still shut! And seems to remain shut in the near future. Belgian airlines might be bust before that airport re-opens, slots will be very easily allocated then. Unless the government decides to splash out a few hundred millions of tax payer's money to keep our airlines from going bankrupt? Anyway, it is rather premature to discuss slot-allocation right now.

[sean1982]

Premature? It is expected to open tomorrow

[Inquirer]

Is that opening already confirmed? If so: GOOD.
And can we discuss with an eye on the topic's title, because several topics are all actually discussing one and the same thing right now, i.e. the long overdue reopening (or not) of the airport, this topic is not the best place to do so, I think.

[koja78]

Well I would think slot allocation would go percentagewise as the last traffic was.

So if SN has 30% of all traffic... SN should get 30 % of the new opening slots... no?

[sean1982]

Well I would think slot allocation would go percentagewise as the last traffic was.

So if SN has 30% of all traffic... SN should get 30 % of the new opening slots... no?

That would be fair and impartial indeed

[Conti764]

Well I would think slot allocation would go percentagewise as the last traffic was.

So if SN has 30% of all traffic... SN should get 30 % of the new opening slots... no?

That would be fair and impartial indeed

And what would that mean for Ryanair? 1 or 2 flights?

I mean, I am perfectly objective about this and I don't dislike Ryanair (to the contrary) but I too think SN should be given priority since they only have BRU as a base and have to disperse flights to all over Belgium and even abroad while FR and JAF to name two other major users of the airport have alternative bases to operate from.

And after all, SN is Belgium's flag carrier airline, and it is my humble opinion Belgian aviation can't have a second flag carrier going burst, only 15 years after its predecessor... Because such event would hit BRU even more then last week's attacks...

[koja78]

It would be up to Ryanair to see if they want to use those slots or.. on good sportmenship.. leave them to SN.

Mind you.. I love SN.. I would love to see them thrive... but there is also the legal implications etc. And it's not an official flag carrier as it is not a state airline anymore..

[sean1982]

Well I would think slot allocation would go percentagewise as the last traffic was.

So if SN has 30% of all traffic... SN should get 30 % of the new opening slots... no?

That would be fair and impartial indeed

And what would that mean for Ryanair? 1 or 2 flights?

I mean, I am perfectly objective about this and I don't dislike Ryanair (to the contrary) but I too think SN should be given priority since they only have BRU as a base and have to disperse flights to all over Belgium and even abroad while FR and JAF to name two other major users of the airport have alternative bases to operate from.

And after all, SN is Belgium's flag carrier airline, and it is my humble opinion Belgian aviation can't have a second flag carrier going burst, only 15 years after its predecessor... Because such event would hit BRU even more then last week's attacks...

Conti, it's not only SN who has to spend money on this. All other airlines (and especially "based" ones) lose a lot of money on a daily basis. Passengers cancelling flights because they dont want to fly to CRL. Crew transports, passenger transports. Crewing stretched to the limits regarding duty times because the commute BRU-CRL-BRU needs to be counted in the duty times. I would find it extremely unfair for 1 airline to get the full benefit of offsetting these costs. Like is said, that would probably be in court in no time.

[N77014]

I like the expression Koja78 uses of "good sportmenship". I fly as much FR as I fly SN, and have no specific preference, that is not the discussion or topic here. It is about granting someone else a place in the sun as well. How many hubs does FR has ? About 70 ? So it is fair to say about 1,3% of their hubs is directly involved in the closure of BRU, while for SN it is 100%. On top of this, FR has a nice facility in CRL that can cope with most of the disruptions. Same for e.g. BA, they still have their hub(s) fully operational bringing people to many places in a radius of 200 kms of BRU. So it would be nice to see such airline as well play the game as a"good sportmen", and let SN get back on 1 foot... Not even 2... And for good understanding, I used FR and BA as examples, but the same goes for most LCC's and major carriers. Do not shoot the wounded in the back.

[Conti764]

That would be fair and impartial indeed

And what would that mean for Ryanair? 1 or 2 flights?

I mean, I am perfectly objective about this and I don't dislike Ryanair (to the contrary) but I too think SN should be given priority since they only have BRU as a base and have to disperse flights to all over Belgium and even abroad while FR and JAF to name two other major users of the airport have alternative bases to operate from.

And after all, SN is Belgium's flag carrier airline, and it is my humble opinion Belgian aviation can't have a second flag carrier going burst, only 15 years after its predecessor... Because such event would hit BRU even more then last week's attacks...

Conti, it's not only SN who has to spend money on this. All other airlines (and especially "based" ones) lose a lot of money on a daily basis. Passengers cancelling flights because they dont want to fly to CRL. Crew transports, passenger transports. Crewing stretched to the limits regarding duty times because the commute BRU-CRL-BRU needs to be counted in the duty times. I would find it extremely unfair for 1 airline to get the full benefit of offsetting these costs. Like is said, that would probably be in court in no time.

I can understand your position, but be honest... Which company might be the very first to go bankrupt after these events? Small SN just posting positive figures, having only one base which is completely out or juggernaut FR with it's 0,5 billion+ profit, flying from dozens of bases of which one of its most succesful is in Belgium and not too far away from BRU?

[flightlover]

And what would that mean for Ryanair? 1 or 2 flights?

I mean, I am perfectly objective about this and I don't dislike Ryanair (to the contrary) but I too think SN should be given priority since they only have BRU as a base and have to disperse flights to all over Belgium and even abroad while FR and JAF to name two other major users of the airport have alternative bases to operate from.

And after all, SN is Belgium's flag carrier airline, and it is my humble opinion Belgian aviation can't have a second flag carrier going burst, only 15 years after its predecessor... Because such event would hit BRU even more then last week's attacks...

Conti, it's not only SN who has to spend money on this. All other airlines (and especially "based" ones) lose a lot of money on a daily basis. Passengers cancelling flights because they dont want to fly to CRL. Crew transports, passenger transports. Crewing stretched to the limits regarding duty times because the commute BRU-CRL-BRU needs to be counted in the duty times. I would find it extremely unfair for 1 airline to get the full benefit of offsetting these costs. Like is said, that would probably be in court in no time.

I can understand your position, but be honest... Which company might be the very first to go bankrupt after these events? Small SN just posting positive figures, having only one base which is completely out or juggernaut FR with it's 0,5 billion+ profit, flying from dozens of bases of which one of its most succesful is in Belgium and not too far away from BRU?

And I would add to that: 'Who isn't new to the practice of moving shop in just a few days time' (Albeit on other grounds than a terrorist attack)

[pilot_gent]

And what would that mean for Ryanair? 1 or 2 flights?

I mean, I am perfectly objective about this and I don't dislike Ryanair (to the contrary) but I too think SN should be given priority since they only have BRU as a base and have to disperse flights to all over Belgium and even abroad while FR and JAF to name two other major users of the airport have alternative bases to operate from.

And after all, SN is Belgium's flag carrier airline, and it is my humble opinion Belgian aviation can't have a second flag carrier going burst, only 15 years after its predecessor... Because such event would hit BRU even more then last week's attacks...

I think nobody would like to see Brussels going bust and although you say you are objective, it is a pretty emotional argument you give. Seeing that Brussels airlines is the biggest costumer they should have the biggest portion of the slots. I also believe they should receive help in these difficult times to avoid going bankrupt, but only by doing something that is applicable to all airlines.

However, if you "help" Brussels airlines by giving them priority over other airlines it is unfair competition as Sean said. Financial health of a company has nothing to do with slot allocation imho.

All airlines have their difficulties, for example Thomas Cook and Jetairfly:
- their second biggest destination completely closed down (Tunisia) --> terrorist attack
- their biggest destination down by 30% (Turkey)
- Egypt almost completely closed down (1 or 2 destinations iso 6) --> terrorist attack
- BRU closed (extra transportation, extra hotels, extra ferry flights, overtime of personnel,...) --> terrorist attack

But if I follow the reasoning here, they should not get help because they are not yet "close" to bankrupcy? Not very objective imo...

And just to clarify, I not in favour of JAF, TCW, RYR or SN, and I'm all in favour of helping the airlines through this difficult period. But in a fair and honest way.

[flightlover]

Just one question in respect to this subject: What would happen with access to other major airports when a full service (check-in) is taken out completely? Hard to imagine but let's suggest LHR, FRA, CDG, MAD,... Would they also give priority to their home carrier or would they give access to all regular users?

[sean1982]

And I would add to that: 'Who isn't new to the practice of moving shop in just a few days time' (Albeit on other grounds than a terrorist attack)

Im sorry flightlover, but that is no argument. All of us BRU based crew have houses close to the airport. Me, I live close to the dutch border even. I commute about 4hrs now everyday to CRL and back and im running on reserves to be honest. So according to you all of us just have to pack up and move just because some bastards blew themselves up? Thanks, but no thanks. Everyone is affected, everyone should get equal chances to recover, no matter how their financial status was before that.

[flightlover]

Sorry to see you suffer so much on commuting sean1982. But I hope you mean back and forth to work? Or do you take public transportation? Otherwise I just can't see how it can take 4 hours to get there.

Everyone has their own priorities but for me a commute is max 1h to go to work unless it is in extraordinary circumstances. So, 2h in total.

[Jetter]

I also believe they should receive help in these difficult times to avoid going bankrupt, but only by doing something that is applicable to all airlines.

I agree they should receive help, but not from the slot coordinator that needs to be impartial. They need help from the Belgian government. Normally state aid is forbidden by EU rules, but because of the extraordinary circumstances after the attack an exception applies. This creates a opportunity to give SN the money they gave before, but which needs to be payed back because it was ruled unlawful by the EU at that time.

Nobody of SN made any statements about the financials besides the loss being 5 million a day afaik, but it's not hard to figure out that SN is going to have a hard time to survive without aid (Lufthansa or the state).