Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

[tolipanebas]

Indeed.
Formal confirmation: 4 x A319 to replace 4 x RJ100 with, plus 2 x A320 for expansion.
And 2 x A330 too of course, also for further long haul expansion.
2016 will be another year with massive growth.

[crew1990]

But let's not forget the OO-SSP which has been returned to lessor

The fleet will be in 2016 as following.

21 A319 (141pax)
9 A320 (180pax)
8 RJ100 (97pax)
3 A330-200 (268pax)
7 A330-300 (284pax)

Plus the wet leased aircraft.

In 2015 the fleet was like that.

18 A319 (17 of 141pax, 1 of 142pax)
7 A320 (168pax)
12 RJ100 (97pax)
3 A330-200 (268pax)
5 A330-300 (284pax)

It's a massive increase of seat.

[OO-ITR]

But let's not forget the OO-SSP which has been returned to lessor

The fleet will be in 2016 as following.

21 A319 (141pax)
9 A320 (180pax)
8 RJ100 (97pax)
3 A330-200 (268pax)
7 A330-300 (284pax)

Plus the wet leased aircraft.

In 2015 the fleet was like that.

18 A319 (17 of 141pax, 1 of 142pax)
7 A320 (168pax)
12 RJ100 (97pax)
3 A330-200 (268pax)
5 A330-300 (284pax)

It's a massive increase of seat.

Has there been a confirmation that the 10th A330 will be an A333?

[Conti764]

If you compare Brussels Airlines' fleet to Sabenas at the time of its demise, it starts to look like something:

Type/Brussels Airlines/Sabena
A319 21/15
A320 9/6
A332 3/6
A333 7/4

Of course, Sabena had some equipment of more different types (A342/3, A321, B733/5, MD11) but I guess it's a smart move of the current company to focus on just a few subfleets.

Brussels Airlines will soon have 10 l/h-aircraft, while Sabena had 17. Still some growth needed, but it starts to look like quite a nice fleet

[lumumba]

If you compare Brussels Airlines' fleet to Sabenas at the time of its demise, it starts to look like something:

Type/Brussels Airlines/Sabena
A319 21/15
A320 9/6
A332 3/6
A333 7/4

Of course, Sabena had some equipment of more different types (A342/3, A321, B733/5, MD11) but I guess it's a smart move of the current company to focus on just a few subfleets.

Brussels Airlines will soon have 10 l/h-aircraft, while Sabena had 17. Still some growth needed, but it starts to look like quite a nice fleet

Not realy because SABENA was split in two you had SABENA en DAT where the Avro's where flying for but also Dash 8 etc...

[Conti764]

If you compare Brussels Airlines' fleet to Sabenas at the time of its demise, it starts to look like something:

Type/Brussels Airlines/Sabena
A319 21/15
A320 9/6
A332 3/6
A333 7/4

Of course, Sabena had some equipment of more different types (A342/3, A321, B733/5, MD11) but I guess it's a smart move of the current company to focus on just a few subfleets.

Brussels Airlines will soon have 10 l/h-aircraft, while Sabena had 17. Still some growth needed, but it starts to look like quite a nice fleet

Not realy because SABENA was split in two you had SABENA en DAT where the Avro's where flying for but also Dash 8 etc...

I know, that's why I left the Avro's out. I haven't shown them in Brussels' fleet, neither...

[lumumba]

If you compare Brussels Airlines' fleet to Sabenas at the time of its demise, it starts to look like something:

Type/Brussels Airlines/Sabena
A319 21/15
A320 9/6
A332 3/6
A333 7/4

Of course, Sabena had some equipment of more different types (A342/3, A321, B733/5, MD11) but I guess it's a smart move of the current company to focus on just a few subfleets.

Brussels Airlines will soon have 10 l/h-aircraft, while Sabena had 17. Still some growth needed, but it starts to look like quite a nice fleet

Not realy because SABENA was split in two you had SABENA en DAT where the Avro's where flying for but also Dash 8 etc...

I know, that's why I left the Avro's out. I haven't shown them in Brussels' fleet, neither...

I understand so if you compare the 8 Avro's with the 30 planes from DAT the difference is still big.

[Jetter]

Reality is that the fleet of Belgium's national carrier halved, while air traffic doubled. Thus SN has about 25% of the importance it had before. You can thank Sabena management and the staff mentality for that

[cathay belgium]

Hi,

Altough I also like Sabena nostalgia and the big fleet the more importance is not marketshare nor airfleet.... but the numbers...
There is more airtraffic then in the times of Sabena but... airfares dropped significantly... there was no LCC Ryanair,Easyjet nor Wizzair in that days... Gulfcarriers? Nope
So no need to compare the these big apples with the pears of these times !
SN is expecting a plus number in these times, something Sabena never had written in their long history ( except one time if I remember well ) !
2016 looks promising and interesting, the big question for be : will they keep bromma open without the avro, hope no dash nor small ERJ on this route, and will the new Canada route survive without the connection to India... their was only a need with the India pax... an A332 daily on their own isn't sustainable I guess...
We will see what happen

CXB

[White Light]

will the new Canada route survive without the connection to India

Good question.
Would it be possible to operate BRU BOM BRU YYZ BRU (meaning actually not only O&D but BOM BRU YYZ and YYZ BRU BOM) with one additional A330 and how many weekly flights would be possible ? A question to the experts on the forum ?

Anyway, I presume that the Toronto flights might at least break even if onward code share flights can be obtained ex YYZ and ex BRU. Toronto offers many connections to Western Canada, without forgetting western USA (and perhaps, although to a lesser extent, central america). Let's wait and see what AC and SN can come up with.

[nordikcam]

will the new Canada route survive without the connection to India

Good question.
Would it be possible to operate BRU BOM BRU YYZ BRU (meaning actually not only O&D but BOM BRU YYZ and YYZ BRU BOM) with one additional A330 and how many weekly flights would be possible ? A question to the experts on the forum ?

Anyway, I presume that the Toronto flights might at least break even if onward code share flights can be obtained ex YYZ and ex BRU. Toronto offers many connections to Western Canada, without forgetting western USA (and perhaps, although to a lesser extent, central america). Let's wait and see what AC and SN can come up with.

For exemple, personnaly I will use the YYZ connexion every three month for travelling from BRU to the East part of Cuba directly...the only way with AC from YYZ to HOG. It will be with the SN flight. And bye bye the first one YUL connexion

[JOVAN]

I believe a focus of SN (and BRU) should be on European destinations.
Frequent flights to more EU destinations and interconnecting this destinations.
The 10 million PAX that SN had in 2010 was based on frequent 'waves' of arrivals/departures.
3 to 5 waves a days were working as a ..Swiss clock..

What went wrong was,...the SWISS and the fact that the airport at that time was not designed for that model.
It was costly to bring all those PAX to and from the Terminal ...

Now we have a great PIER A where the PAX arrive from anywhere and can connect by a simple walk to their next flight.

To control the costs of this feeder lines , the only way is to establish a kind of SN-Express with a fleet of 8 to 10 cost-efficient E-190's for instance. This in combination with bigger planes Airbus.

BRU can be a kind of ATLANTA of EU.

Whether you go to heaven or to hell, you have to change planes (trains) in ATLANTA or BRUSSELS...

[convair]

The 10 million PAX that SN had in 2010 was based on frequent 'waves' of arrivals/departures.
3 to 5 waves a days were working as a ..Swiss clock..

Don't you mean 2000 iso 2010?

[sean1982]

The Atlanta of the EU with CDG, AMS, LHR and FRA (the 4 biggest airports in EU) within max 1 hour flying distance is quite over ambitious if you ask me :/

[JOVAN]

The 10 million PAX that SN had in 2010 was based on frequent 'waves' of arrivals/departures.
3 to 5 waves a days were working as a ..Swiss clock..

Don't you mean 2000 iso 2010?

Yes indeed, 2000 the year before 2001 . Tx.

[teach]

The 10 million PAX that SN had in 2010 was based on frequent 'waves' of arrivals/departures.
3 to 5 waves a days were working as a ..Swiss clock..

Not so sure about the 'Swiss clock' thing. If I'm not mistaken, SN and BRU had one of the worst on-time records in Europe around that time.

What went wrong was,...the SWISS and the fact that the airport at that time was not designed for that model.

Those were not the main problems. The main problems were that the planes were not nearly full enough, and that yields were too low, with too many of the passengers transiting in BRU, and those transit passengers were mainly attracted by fares that were lower than direct flights.

BRU can be a kind of ATLANTA of EU.

Whether you go to heaven or to hell, you have to change planes (trains) in ATLANTA or BRUSSELS...

You're basically telling Sn to repeat the business model of Sabena. And we all know how well that went...

[Conti764]

The problem of Sabena wasn't the idea behind their operation, but the company not being abmle to adapt to the heavily liberated air traffic market, it still was a de facto state company, the fact that management saw things to big and the deplorable attitude of a lot of staff as a direct consequence of that state attitude... My sister in law worked as a FA for Sabena back in those days and the stories she told...

Attributing to the problems were the shady Swiss who didn't follow up on their promises, the way too large aircraft order SN was forced to close with Airbus, and the fact that Swissair abused Sabena to milk the already struggling company.

But the idea of Sabena wasn't bad at all... With the changed air market (alliances being more important than ever before, joint-ventures,...) SN should go the same way imho albeit not repeating Sabena's mistakes. Don't forget the A-pier was tailor made for the kind of ops Sabena was looking at, unfortunately Sabena never got to operate from it.

And Brussels Airlines is not Sabena, not even close... A totaly different attitude amongst both management and staff and a more careful approach to things..

[JOVAN]

The problem of Sabena wasn't the idea behind their operation, but the company not being abmle to adapt to the heavily liberated air traffic market, it still was a de facto state company, the fact that management saw things to big and the deplorable attitude of a lot of staff as a direct consequence of that state attitude... My sister in law worked as a FA for Sabena back in those days and the stories she told...

Attributing to the problems were the shady Swiss who didn't follow up on their promises, the way too large aircraft order SN was forced to close with Airbus, and the fact that Swissair abused Sabena to milk the already struggling company.

But the idea of Sabena wasn't bad at all... With the changed air market (alliances being more important than ever before, joint-ventures,...) SN should go the same way imho albeit not repeating Sabena's mistakes. Don't forget the A-pier was tailor made for the kind of ops Sabena was looking at, unfortunately Sabena never got to operate from it.

And Brussels Airlines is not Sabena, not even close... A totaly different attitude amongst both management and staff and a more careful approach to things..

I mean that the CONCEPT was great and excellent.
It would work in TODAY's BRU and with TODAY's SN.

The present schwung and mentality was not there 16 years ago.

Pier A is ideal.
SN is now a successful member of Star Alliance.
No Swiss Arrogance and mismanagement. And no Follies des grandeurs.

[OO-ITR]

All nice info but can we stick to the title of this thread which is SN fleet renewal. thank you!

[KriVa]

Let's steer this thread back on topic.
If you want to discuss anything pertaining the actual fleet renewal at SN, this thread is the place to do it.
If you'd like to have a discussion about how that new fleet should/will be used, the future of BRU, the future of SN,... feel free to discuss that either in the relevant topic, or open a new topic if no relevant topic exists.
Thanks.