Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

[FLYAIR10]

After Cx-B's remark I have searched SQ on airfleets.net and apparantly they do have two fairly new frames (2009-2010) stored... Could one of them (or both) be an option?

These have RR Trent engines...
SQ seems to have also 4 A340-500 stored BTW , but also with RR Trent engines..

[KriVa]

Nobody asks/asked us to "censor" anything.
However, common sense dictates that this kind of inside information is not intended to be posted publicly on the web. Your comparison to a pub doesn't really add up, though. In a pub, words are fleeting, here they are mostly permanent.
There have also been precedents of legal disputes between websites and airlines. (That is, for example, the reason why matters concerning Etihad are no longer allowed on PPRuNe.)

Back on topic:
The SQ aircraft have Trent engines, which is not a type of engine SN flies right now. I have no clue about the actual costs involved, but I can imagine switching from one type of engine to another within a fleet is rather costly. Of course, if the benefits of this outweigh the costs, it may be advantageous to do so.
I can imagine they have a good idea of this balance at SN.

However, I don't see A340-500s coming SN's way, it's a type a lot of airlines are letting go, for various reasons.
The A330s could of course be a possibility, provided that the cost-benefit balance works in SN's favour.

[convair]

The SQ aircraft have Trent engines, which is not a type of engine SN flies right now. I have no clue about the actual costs involved, but I can imagine switching from one type of engine to another within a fleet is rather costly. Of course, if the benefits of this outweigh the costs, it may be advantageous to do so.
I can imagine they have a good idea of this balance at SN.

And, on the other hand, they can't expect to forever find A330s with the engines type they currently use.

[cathay belgium]

Hi,

A345 a nice plane for avgeeks but completly not a chance, they burn too much,
they were made for extra longhaul flight in direct flight, why would anyone wants this type?
Fuelcost is low now but can change rapidly... regarding ISIS,Syria... and the explosive situation..
no one would take thus change except maybe Iran soon,...
Don't see why an introduction of another engine type would rule out this option,
the other A333 will face also replacement and thereby they can switch maybe to an all RR fleet for the A333
And soon will be a lot of A333 come on the market.... with the replacement of these planes by A359/B787,... for instance SK,KL,SU,....
CXB

[sn26567]

The information having been released on other social media, we now feel free to release it as well. Here it is:

It is now confirmed that a 9th a330 will enter the fleet and start operations by june 2016. It will facilitate the increased frequencies on Africa next summer, and as of winter 16/17 used for the new destinations Lagos and Libreville.

Not yet confirmed, but under review, is the further expansion of the LH-fleet in 2016 (I presume 1 extra a330) in the light of 9W's departure. Language is a bit vague about possible destinations; some clues about opening up the Canadian Market and strenghtening US-market. No word about India.

[KriVa]

...
Don't see why an introduction of another engine type would rule out this option,
....
CXB

I didn't say a new engine type would rule out the option, but introducing a new engine type is not something that can be done overnight. Relatively speaking, it's not a huge project, but it is not one to be taken lightly, either. Among others, pilots and engineers need to be trained, logistics processes need to be updated, ...
Also, since SN flies their A330s on ETOPS missions, the ETOPS part of the equation needs to be considered too. While I'm not thát up-to-date on the procedures, I seem to remember ETOPS certification being operator-specific. As such, a new engine type might take some time to be certified for a new operator.

As always, I may be wrong, of course.

[Conti764]

Engines can be leased seperately, no?

[Airbus A330]

Engines can be leased seperately, no?

If I'm not mistaken (and I'm far to be an expert in engineering ), aircraft wings are specifically designed for a particular engine type and its "cover" (nacelle in French).

That's why the search of an aircraft with the same engines can be difficult as I think a PW engine can't just be installed on a A330 built for a RR engine (just an example ).

Can someone confirm or correct my message if I'm wrong? Thanks.

[airazurxtror]

A lot of fuss over a triffle : one (1) more aircraft in the fleet (perhaps ? maybe ? yes ? no ? top secret, destroy before reading !).
Pitiable ...

[Bralo20]

A lot of fuss over a triffle : one (1) more aircraft in the fleet (perhaps ? maybe ? yes ? no ? top secret, destroy before reading !).
Pitiable ...

Yeah, it reminds me to airliners.net where censorship is always around the corner. Was quite surprised/disappointed to see something like that on luchtzak though.

[Bralo20]

If I'm not mistaken (and I'm far to be an expert in engineering ), aircraft wings are specifically designed for a particular engine type and its "cover" (nacelle in French).

That's why the search of an aircraft with the same engines can be difficult as I think a PW engine can't just be installed on a A330 built for a RR engine (just an example ).

Can someone confirm or correct my message if I'm wrong? Thanks.

I don't think the A330 has the option to be re-engined to another brand of engine (at least not quickly), other type of planes do have the option though (the A380 for example). But re-engining a plane is rarely done since it involves quite a bit of work, in the past it has been done (remember the DC-8 for example where quite a few were re-engined from PW's to CFM's, with other's like the 727 it was merely a type change with the same manufacturer) but in recent days not so much.

[RTM]

Well... technically, it is possible, and has actually been done on several A330's... However, those were proto's. Airbus converted both A333 proto's from GE to RR, still in service like that, and the first A332 proto was converted from GE to RR and eventually to PW, and also still in service like that.

But I don't think the conversion was ever offered as an option. If you throw enough money at them, they probably will do it, but I don't think it is economically viable.

[sn26567]

A lot of fuss over a triffle : one (1) more aircraft in the fleet (perhaps ? maybe ? yes ? no ? top secret, destroy before reading !).
Pitiable ...

Yeah, it reminds me to airliners.net where censorship is always around the corner. Was quite surprised/disappointed to see something like that on luchtzak though.

Two remarks:

1. An increase of one A330 in a fleet of 8 represents 12.5%. It's like FR increasing its fleet by 50 aircraft overnight.

2. Censorship at A.net is indeed terrible : don't dare mentioning a competing site, or you are out. At Luchtzak you won't be censored if you follow the rules (link on top of the page ). Only recently did we temporarily remove posts containing confidential information, for evident legal reasons. I guess this is not hard to understand

[sean1982]

Engines can be leased seperately, no?

If I'm not mistaken (and I'm far to be an expert in engineering ), aircraft wings are specifically designed for a particular engine type and its "cover" (nacelle in French).

That's why the search of an aircraft with the same engines can be difficult as I think a PW engine can't just be installed on a A330 built for a RR engine (just an example ).

Can someone confirm or correct my message if I'm wrong? Thanks.

I THINK that only the B787 was designed to be able to swap engines without much effort (as in ... Engine types)

[Airbus A330]

Well... technically, it is possible, and has actually been done on several A330's... However, those were proto's. Airbus converted both A333 proto's from GE to RR, still in service like that, and the first A332 proto was converted from GE to RR and eventually to PW, and also still in service like that.

But I don't think the conversion was ever offered as an option. If you throw enough money at them, they probably will do it, but I don't think it is economically viable.

Thank you Bralo20 & RTM for your precious information.

[KriVa]

The 787 is indeed the first airplane where the engine control and monitoring systems were designed with the intention of making the swap to a different brand of engine easily feasible.
However, even in the 787 there's still quite some hassle if you would want to do it. The intention was good, the execution less so, but only slightly.

It would indeed not be economically feasible to do this on an A330, especially since other A330s would be available, with probably the correct engine configuration, for less money.

Of course, it's hard to predict whether or not the switch to a different type of engine would be feasible for SN. I can imagine they have this kind of stuff figured out, though

[Magiktrix]

Actually B.Air is operating 2 engines types GE and PW. The 3 oldest aircraft are the GE.
Lufthansa A330 are RR. The best seller in the late years is RR, so more aircraft in secondhand.
RR on A330 as a very good hot and high reputation. This can make a lot of sense on B.Air network.
Its maybe the perfect timing to make the switch.

ETOPS is not only company specific, but for each combination airframe/engine, each airline has to pass by a probation period.
Something like : 6 months in 60 min rules but with ETOPS maintenance and procedure.
6 months ETOPS 90 6 months ETOPS 120 and so on till you reach the max certified.

[Avroflyer]

OO-SSP left the SN fleet this morning making it's final flight to Montpellier

[cathay belgium]

Hi,

Adieu our white nosed workhorse...
Logged it just in time in october
Nice old seats... pity

CXB

[nordikcam]

Hello,

When will depart the first RJ100 ?
When will arrive the next A319 or A320 ?
From which airline could arrive the next one A 330 ?

Thx a lot