Air France: war between management and pilots

[RoMax]

If the numbers stated above prove to be correct, the pilots sealed the fate of 2600 people that had nothing to do with this whole dispute between the managment and the pilots...

[sean1982]

If I were a pilot at air france, I wouldnt be accepting any food from that soon to be fired cabin manager of 55 years. This attitude is a disgrace. Unions are the downfall of our economy

[Crosswind]

Thank you, the pilots!

For historical reasons, Air France pilots on medium-haul routes fly an average of 585 hours per year. The European average is around 700 hours per year and the European Commission has capped the flying time at 900 hours per year, a level reached at some low-cost companies.

The AF pilots are thus very privileged people. By refusing to work a little more for the same pay, they put their company at high risk and they will send other staff and even some pilots to the rows of the unemployed! Many union members of other categories of personnel are very angry at their cockpit colleagues.

A shame!

I must say, André, I don't fly more than 600 hours per year at SN, on the A32F... Hours means nothing in terms of workload. Please stop bashing on AF pilots. Even without pilots Air France would go wrong since, once again, causes of this marasm have to be found on a combination of factors rather than on a community.

[Passenger]

Air France has confirmed the 2.900 dismissals, and that news isn't accepted with much joy:

http://www.lefigaro.fr/conjoncture/2015 ... dicats.php

[Conti764]

They should have attacked the pilots.

[sn26567]

A very serious incident took place outside of the location where the Central Works Council took place today. The Human Resources Director of Air France had to escape almost naked over a fence. A formal complaint will be filed for aggravated assault.

https://www.aviation24.be/airlines_press_r ... s-council/



The meeting of the Central Works Council has been interrupted and will not resume today.

Oh yes, the 2900 lay-offs are confirmed and the 787 order is cancelled.

From bad to worse?

[Passenger]

From bad to worse?

Yep, think so. And Dieselgate has proven that things can go very wrong in a very short period of time, even with established big companies.

[sean1982]

As usual the pilot union was probably calling bluf to the management. Now they realise that they will actually do what they said, they are starting their usual tactics including violence. They should all be jailed.

[airazurxtror]

A national company ... staffed by too many who work too little ... unending losses ... pilots who want to keep their full privileges ... haven't we heard the same story in the past ?

[sn26567]

Restructuring plan headlines: https://www.aviation24.be/airlines_press_r ... ring-plan/

[airazurxtror]

Ce que gagnent les pilotes par an les pilotes d'AF- Salaire annuel brut en euros (2013)

Type - Copilot - Cdt de bord
A320 - 63 204 - 138 324
A340/A330 - 113 676 - 186 000
B777 - 116 784 - 190 608
B747 - 135 792 - 208 452
A380 - 149 088 - 227 544

Nombre d'heures de vol des pilotes
MOYEN COURRIER - 585 heures
LONG COURRIER - 685 heures

http://www.lefigaro.fr/economie/le-scan ... france.php

[airazurxtror]

Xavier Broseta, the Air France human resources chief who was forced to scale a fence to escape a violent mob of workers Monday, is due to step aside in the coming months, according to Air France, government and union officials. Mr Broseta's departure will pave the way for Gilles Gateau, a senior member of Prime Minister Manuel Valls's cabinet, to take the post, the officials said.
"The decision is unrelated to the incident yesterday," the Air France official said.

Completely unrelated, of course. Kicked out nevertheless.

[Elpiloto]

Air France personal should take a look at what there American colleagues did in the past.
They gave back a lot of there salary to safe there airlines with a formal promise that, when things would be better, they would have a share in it. this was done with a minimum of dismissals....
And it worked!!

Unions should realise that holding on to the obtained privileges is sometimes a bad things and they should have a more flexible and economic view!!

I feel sorry for the people who will loose there job as there aren't that much around for them!!

[Pocahontas]

It is easy to judge when one is not involved. Everything you give in, you loose. Believe me I experience it every day. Managements are not trustworthy nowadays. All that counts is figures, people management seems far gone in most companies. Well this will backfire one day in any company. Meanwhile Air France has a too big overhead structure, but who has to give in? Indeed flying personel, thus keeping all the politically assigned posts manned.
Managers like to refer to FR, compare working conditions of flying personel, but never want to compare the overhead. And that is where the biggest difference is.
I think that when a company is struggling, and people have to give in salary, every individual should feel the same impact. Fe a 5% salary cut for everyone. Where I work this was not the case and flying personel felt the savings the most as individuals, management claims this is not the case, but hey that is what they must do. We know the figures

[sean1982]

Managers like to refer to FR, compare working conditions of flying personel, but never want to compare the overhead. And that is where the biggest difference is.

Thats very true. FR is run by a SMALL management/back office team if you compare it with the major legacies like Air France, BA and KLM. Loads of airlines could do major savings there, not just on the aircrew

[airazurxtror]

"Le Canard Enchainé" reveals today another detail : he says that Air France prepares 5,000 additional job cuts beyond 2017 , which would be added to 2900 mentioned Monday at the CEC. Air France immediately denied these claims, stating that there is "no plan for staffing changes " from 2018 .

[Passenger]

Meanwhile Air France has a too big overhead structure, but who has to give in? Indeed flying personel, thus keeping all the politically assigned posts manned.

That Air France has a too big overhead structure is probably right. But all AF staff accepted to give in, except the pilots. Hence the 2.900 dismissals and fleet reducement. Could be that all "politically assigned posts" remained in place, I don't know Air France's structure, but some of those probably represent the shareholder in the company board.

[Pocahontas]

Thing is: You don't know what every individual has to give in... That was one of my points in my previous post.
FE: every department needs to save 10%, in some departments they retire people early, don't replace people leaving the company, reduce amount of interim jobs etc... As individual remaining at the company, you continue to work your 7:36 hours and get the same salary, not even working very much harder. As flying personel we felt the savings individually, hitting us personally, that is a very very big difference, ain't it? We had to work more and we lost € and other benefits. That's why I say that one should know details before they judge.
But: I am completely against the violence some people at AF used, and I am pro measures to save the company. But those measures should equally impact everybody.

My 2 cents

[sn26567]

Air France pilot union says ready to resume talks with management

Air France's main pilot union SNPL is ready to resume talks with the carrier's management over a planned restructuring, a union spokesman said on Thursday.

The airline's unions are up in arms over plans to cut 2,900 jobs at the struggling airline, a move that triggered a fracas on Monday with executives hounded from a meeting, their shirts torn from their backs.

Air France-KLM Chief Executive Alexandre de Juniac is expected to meet SNPL leaders alongside some of the company's executives on Friday.

A majority of SNPL's council voted in favour of a resumption of talks with management, spokesman Emmanuel Mistrali said.

The hardline CGT union has called on Air France unions to meet on Tuesday to decide whether to go ahead with strike plans.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2015/10/0 ... NB20151008

[Elpiloto]

That's all they need: a strike to put them even deeper into misery!!

Don't get me wrong, I think that the management should have a good look into the mirror and see where they can cut, themselves first.
But going immediately on strike... I don't think, in the current economical environment is not a good idea.
Talk first and than see....