Aviation and the Ebola epidemic in West-Africa

[Passenger]

What is it, we're not allowed to comment now?

Of course you are. But then, when posting comment, please don't say "...I'm only posting what the Japanese media are saying..."..

Do you think that Belgium will be spared from criticism as this crisis goes forward?

Actually, medical articles worldwide will praise Belgium and Brussels Airlines (and the few other airlines) for their contribution into the fight against ebola.

Fact is that the three ebola countries cannot fight ebola themselves, which means that without western help ebola will spread further and further. Just try to suppress your hatred against Brussels Airlines for a few minutes and try to understand that we will have an ourbreak in Europe if ebola is not contained in West Africa. Please.

[airazurxtror]

Australia on Monday issued a blanket ban on visas from Ebola-affected countries in West Africa to prevent the disease reaching the country, becoming the first rich nation to shut its doors to the region.
---------------------
Belgium indicated, Monday, Oct. 27, that she has stopped since mid-August expulsions of illegal immigrants to African countries affected by Ebola. Not to protect these migrants, but to ensure that the police officers who watch them are not affected by the disease.

[RoMax]

Australia on Monday issued a blanket ban on visas from Ebola-affected countries in West Africa to prevent the disease reaching the country, becoming the first rich nation to shut its doors to the region.

You (not only you, everyone that want these kind of things) realise that this is an extremely stupid thing to do? That's like saying to the potential very valuable Australian health workers, that they can't go there. That will have an adverse effect. I can understand it though for Australia, because of their remote position and low amount of people traveling between Australia and West-Africa, so they just want to reduce the risk even more to look good to the public. But if other countries like in Europe and North America also do that, you end up with an even greater lack of trained health workers in the troubled countries, making the epidemic even less controlable. And that's when it will really start to expand to other parts of the world (travel ban in certain countries or not).

[Inquirer]

FWIW,
Australian nationals don't need a visa to return to their own country, so Australian doctors and nurses helping out are free to come and go as they please of course.
In fact, a country can not legally refuse access to one of its own nationals ever.
As such, a visa ban is pretty much nonsense, taken just to be seen as being though, nothing more.
I would like to see know how many non-Australians coming from these countries Australia sees at its airports on a daily basis? Probably close to zero already today, without a visa ban.
Politicians are real comedians, sometimes.

[Passenger]

Australia on Monday issued a blanket ban on visas from Ebola-affected countries in West Africa to prevent the disease reaching the country, becoming the first rich nation to shut its doors to the region.

Did Australia really took the decision "to prevent the disease reaching the country"? Two groups in Australia disagree with that view: the medical corps and the political opposition:

Brian Owler, president of the Australian Medical Association (AMA), told CNN that the announcement came a surprise and that the chance of the disease entering the country through a migrant from the region was very low. "It's not necessarily a very well-focused decision. The bigger picture needs to be on our preparedness at home but more importantly our involvement in West Africa itself, putting doctors and nurses and other logistical elements in place and trying to combat the crisis there." He added that the government had sought the advice of "very few people," and had excluded the AMA.

CNN : Concerns are being raised that the Australian response is largely engineered to create political capital, particularly given the country's well-documented hard line on immigration. Brian Owler (Australian Medical Association): "There have been people here in Australia that have been asking for this kind of approach and I think the main drive is political. Of course it will always be dressed up as a solution to keeping Australians safe but in actual fact the people who are coming from West Africa, a number of them are coming on humanitarian grounds so there are concerns about why their visas are being denied, and for what period of time they'll be denied for." The nonprofit Medicines Sans Frontiers, also known as Doctors Without Borders, echoed the sentiment, saying that "developed countries' prevention strategies ... seem to have more political than medical implications."

Source : CNN

(edit : the second group in Australia that denies that the ban on visas from Ebola-affected countries serves "to prevent the disease reaching the country" is Australia's political opposition. Their arguments are not related to aviation so I didn't mentionned them here)

[airazurxtror]

When it comes to transporting Ebola victims by air, the world relies on just one U.S. company.

Phoenix Air, a jet-charter service based in Cartersville, Ga., has flown 15 infected patients, including Europeans who worked in West Africa and five individuals who were treated in the United States.

The Pentagon this week said it is developing its own portable isolation units for use on military planes, as thousands of U.S. troops head to West Africa. The Defense Department expects to test the systems next month and deploy them in C-17 and C-130 transport planes by January.

Pics :
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fed ... -patients/

[Passenger]

dr. Sophie Delaunay, Director Doctors Without Borders MSF/AZG, explains to Anderson Cooper why a mandatory quarantine doens't help the fight against ebola:

http://edition.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/v ... e.cnn.html

Delaunay: "It's still out of control and we need much more human resources there: doctors, nurses. Everything that demotivates them to go and fight ebola in Africa is contraproductive".

[sn26567]

When it comes to transporting Ebola victims by air, the world relies on just one U.S. company.

Phoenix Air, a jet-charter service based in Cartersville, Ga., has flown 15 infected patients, including Europeans who worked in West Africa and five individuals who were treated in the United States.

This was already mentioned (with a picture) on the very first page of this long long thread. More information about this company and its Gulfstream: http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/this-a ... thardigree

[airazurxtror]

At least six (US) states have called for mandatory quarantines, which are imposed under the force of law.
While the C.D.C. issues guidelines, it does not have the power to police public health matters, so it is up to the states to carry out the policy.

Gov. Christie of new Jersey made it clear on Monday he had no intention of following the lead of the federal agency.
“We want stricter things than they were willing to impose,” he said on NBC’s “Today” show. He said federal authorities were not acting in the best interest of the public in refusing to impose stricter guidelines.
“This is because they don’t want to admit that we were right and they were wrong,” he said.

However, some public health professionals say that the governors are letting politics guide their decision making in a way that could prove dangerous.
“The governors’ action is like driving a carpet tack with a sledgehammer: it gets the job done but overall is more destructive than beneficial”.

Governor Christie and other state leaders have said that even if there was a small chance that the medical health professionals are wrong, it was too great a risk to take.

[sn26567]

At least six (US) states have called for mandatory quarantines, which are imposed under the force of law.
...
Governor Christie and other state leaders have said that even if there was a small chance that the medical health professionals are wrong, it was too great a risk to take.

Elections in two weeks. Politicians who want to be re-elected bend to the public opinion rather than to knowledgeable scientists.

[Flanker2]

Elections in two weeks. Politicians who want to be re-elected bend to the public opinion rather than to knowledgeable scientists

Isn't that what is called democracy? Or have we forgotten what it is?
I didn't know that the public opinion is a bad thing, IMO it's often more rational than the political opinion.

I know that you're a reasonable guy SN26656, and you should know that filling our own hospitals with our own Ebola patients isn't going to help the response in West Africa.

In fact, if we close our borders and concentrate all our focus on those countries, we can contain it in 2 months, avoiding new victims over there.

If however we let this thing travel losely around the world, all we will see is resources wasted as each country prepares to deal with incoming Ebola cases, requiring more nurses and doctors to stay home rather than go help there.

It's too simplistic to say that a flights ban or a quarantine on their way home will discourage medical staff from going to help. A flights can be applied to different types of people, ie exclude registered medical staff and military, and a quarantine upon return doesn't have to be torture but a safety measure for the staff's own surroundings. The NYC doctor has proven the necessity of this measure.

MSF are trying to attract funding for their organisation. They have no place in Ebola countries, as they already have shown that they were unable to control it when it was much smaller. We thank them for their service, but now it's time for them to let the pro's handle it.

[sn26567]

It is the role of politicians to do what is best for the population, even if it goes against the mainstream opinion. If the population is ill-informed, it is the role of the politicians to explain their actions and inform correctly their constituents.

But here we are going off-topic.

Hence, please let's stick to aviation-related facts!

[jan_olieslagers]

I know that you're a reasonable guy SN26656

who is that?

[airazurxtror]

Elections in two weeks. Politicians who want to be re-elected bend to the public opinion rather than to knowledgeable scientists.

Vox populi, vox dei.

[Homo Aeroportus]

... Hence, please let's stick to aviation-related facts!

Vox populi, vox Dei ...

How about taking a flight where the passengers decide on the altitude and the route ?

They are the majority on board so why would this guy in seat 0A decide? Supposedly because he is a trained professional?

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."
Albert Einstein.
Yeah, another of those I-know-better guys.

Shhhhhh .....

H.A.

[jan_olieslagers]

[Passenger]

Doctors versus politicians… It’s amazing to see how some people now firmly stand by the politicians - probably because politicians want a ban on flights to ebola countries and a mandatory quarantine on aid workers.

Let us see what vox populi thinks about Doctors and Politicians. International Research company GfK does this yearly, in their worldwide study "Trust in professional groups, average across all countries". These are the figures for 2014, maximum score 100”:

90 - Fire fighters
89 - Nurses
89 - Doctors, physicians
88 - Teachers
87 - Pharmacists
86 - Farmers
85 - Soldiers
84 - Paramedics
83 - Pilots
78 - Architects
71 - Judges
69 - Bankers, bank assistants
64 - Journalists
59 - Lawyers
56 - Police men
53 - Mayors
31 - Insurance agents
31 - Politicians

Detailled score for Politicians in the USA: no 31% but only 23%.
Detailled score for Politicians in Belgium : no 31% but only 25%

My conclusion: when a decision about a medical issue has to be made (like do we continue or discontinue to fly to ebola countries), it seems to me that vox populi has more confidence in what Doctors & Nurses say (confidence 90%) then in what Mayors (53%) and Politicians say (31%).

Source:
http://www.gfk.com

[airazurxtror]

Washington (CNN) --

U.S. Army personnel will continue to be placed in 21-day quarantine as they return home to their base in Italy, according to Williams, commander of US Army forces in Africa, who spoke to CNN from within the isolation area by military video conference.

The quarantine procedure is meant to reassure both military families and the Italian government that the US is doing everything it can to protect troops, the families and the surrounding communities, Williams said. He noted the Italians had expressed concerns about troops returning to Vicenza after serving in Liberia.

Williams outlined to CNN the quarantine conditions in detail. He said food is left in a room by a team that departs before the soldiers in isolation enter the room. Then Williams and his team come in to eat and leave. After that the utensils - generally plastic ware - are collected and burned. The troops are taking their own temperature twice a day.

As the initial U.S. military commander in Liberia, Williams traveled extensively in Liberia, but said numerous precautions were taken for all the troops. He noted he never came into direct contract with people ill with Ebola but did tour some Ebola testing areas. He said he generally kept a three foot distance and constantly washed his hands. At one point during his time in the hot zone his temperature was taken eight times a day.

There are more than 1,000 U.S. troops on the ground in Africa, with as many as 3,000 more set to deploy, and many of them may not come into contact with local citizens or military on ground. The major complication however may be the sheer logistics of keeping such a large number of people in 21 day isolation.

[teach]

It's too simplistic to say that a flights ban or a quarantine on their way home will discourage medical staff from going to help.

It's not nearly as simplistic as the idiotic, even dangerous idea that banning flights to those countries will somehow stop the disease from entering Europe, when more than likely the exact opposite is true...

[sean1982]

Who is saying we need to stop flying there? We are only talking about commercial transport for Joe public.