Aviation and the Ebola epidemic in West-Africa

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Flanker2
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Re: Aviation and the Ebola epidemic in West-Africa

Post by Flanker2 »

I've been trying to say that from the beginning.

@Tolipanebas:
This crisis is way beyond what MSF can do.
It's a charity. They are making a lot of noise to attract funding, but they are not able to organise something on this scale. MSF can barely handle the infections among aid workers within their own organissation, let alone Africa.

So I couldn't care less whether MSF have a training centre in Brussels, if not that people coming back from the EB-3 shouldn't come back there without having undergone a quarantine.
If they want to train new people and share their experiences, they can video conference it from their quarantine room.
I hope you guys carry protective Ebola kits on board, like we do...
Carrying them is not enough. If a symptomatic passenger vomits on cabin crew, it's too late for the protective kit.
If a pax becomes symptomatic without affecting anyone else, what can you do with a full body suit? Start cleaning up their vomit, blood etc? Are you insane?

Even if said pax vomits on other pax, those other pax should clean up themselves. It would be foolish for SN cabin crew to get themselves infected too, as even experienced doctors with full suits are getting infected.
If said pax are on a flight from the EB-3, then they would understad the risk.

If FR have to start carrying full body suits, then you might as well put everybody in Brussels in a full body suit... maybe the problem is not that FR isn't carrying them, but rather that Brussels is serving as a gateway for Ebola thanks to MSF and SN?

sean1982
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Re: Aviation and the Ebola epidemic in West-Africa

Post by sean1982 »

tolipanebas wrote:Ful protective suits are indeed onboard and briefings on how to use them are given, also by staff of MSF.
I am sure Ryanair has the same, given they are just as likely to have a symptomatic passenger on a European flight from BRU as anybody else you know, with MSF having its Ebola expertise centre set up in our capital. ;)
And why did they choose BRU do you think? Because your money grabbing airline has given them the convenient option! :roll:
Heart for africa .... Lmfao
Funny you say that btw. If any other airline out of BRU (who are obviously not so cash strapped that they HAVE to fly there in order to survive) carries one of YOUR ebola passengers, not only does the crew literally have to deal with that shit, they risk their life as well.
Last edited by sean1982 on 26 Oct 2014, 20:15, edited 1 time in total.

sn-remember
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Re: Aviation and the Ebola epidemic in West-Africa

Post by sn-remember »

sn26567 wrote:
sean1982 wrote:He flew one day earlier with SN and overnighted in Brussels.
Nope! The U.S. press and BBC report that he left Guinea on 14 October. That week, SN operated flights from CKY (SN1255) on 12 and 15 Oct (OO-SFO both days).

http://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/sn1255/
Indeed Anfré, he flew from cky the 14th oct, probably on the AF727 A332 evening flight stopping at NKC.
And 3 days after he embarked at bru on a sn flight.

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RoMax
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Re: Aviation and the Ebola epidemic in West-Africa

Post by RoMax »

sean1982 wrote: And why did they choose BRU do you think? Because your money grabbing airline has given them the convenient option! :roll:
Heart for africa .... Lmfao
Maybe you should stop being so shortsighted. The second time in a very short time in this topic that you are wrong, first with that doctor and your short sighted answer that he simply flew on SN a day earlier (and as said, no he didn't, he flew AF). And now again.

The reason they have their training center here is because MSF Belgium has the most experience with Ebola, they have been working on ebola for almost 20 years.

sean1982
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Re: Aviation and the Ebola epidemic in West-Africa

Post by sean1982 »

CNN said the doctor overnighted in BRU. Not me.

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RoMax
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Re: Aviation and the Ebola epidemic in West-Africa

Post by RoMax »

sean1982 wrote:CNN said the doctor overnighted in BRU. Not me
And that makes you conclude he flew SN? Yes he did, to New York, but he came out of Conakry on Air France. When someone states that SN didn't have a flight on the day he left Conakry, you say he flew a day earlier on SN and had an overnight at BRU... With no actual proof of that, even more so, SN didn't have a flight out of Conakry the day before either. And he didn't leave for NYC until a few days earlier so that one night stay wouldn't be logic either. Is it that difficult to check some facts before making acid statements to make SN look as bad as possible?

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sn26567
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Re: Aviation and the Ebola epidemic in West-Africa

Post by sn26567 »

Moderation in action.

Facts Please !!!
André
ex Sabena #26567

sn-remember
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Re: Aviation and the Ebola epidemic in West-Africa

Post by sn-remember »

tolipanebas wrote:Ful protective suits are indeed onboard and briefings on how to use them are given, also by staff of MSF.
I am sure Ryanair has the same, given they are just as likely to have a symptomatic passenger on a European flight from BRU as anybody else you know, with MSF having its Ebola expertise centre set up in our capital. ;)
Wouldn't it be better to have automatic isolation measures at cmn,cdg and bru, the only 3 airports concerned up to now? The idea gains traction as the virus spreads dramatically ..
New York, New Jersey and Illinois are tentatively setting quarantine measures .. bcs nothing is done where it should ?
http://www.cnbc.com/id/102119947

nordikcam
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Re: Aviation and the Ebola epidemic in West-Africa

Post by nordikcam »

sean1982 wrote:CNN said the doctor overnighted in BRU. Not me.
If CNN said that it's true of course ! If you saw it on tv it's OF COURSE true ! :shock:

sean1982
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Re: Aviation and the Ebola epidemic in West-Africa

Post by sean1982 »

nordikcam wrote:
sean1982 wrote:CNN said the doctor overnighted in BRU. Not me.
If CNN said that it's true of course ! If you saw it on tv it's OF COURSE true ! :shock:
If you cant trust a news agency anymore, than who the hell can you trust?? :roll:

Passenger
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Re: Aviation and the Ebola epidemic in West-Africa

Post by Passenger »

Kaci Hickox, the American nurse that was locked up in mandatory quarantine, criticized the knee-jerk reactions from politicians – i.e. the Governor who took the decision to lock her up.

article (CNN):
http://edition.cnn.com/2014/10/26/healt ... index.html

audio-video with Elizabeth Crowley, CNN’s senior medical correspondent (video starts with publicity of course):
http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video ... e.cnn.html

From that CNN article :

Kaci Hickox, an epidemiologist who was working to help treat Ebola patients in Sierra Leone, said she has tested negative twice for Ebola and does not have symptoms. “This is an extreme that is really unacceptable, and I feel like my basic human rights have been violated. I’m physically strong but emotionally exhausted.”

She slammed New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie for describing her as obviously ill. "That's just a completely unacceptable statement that's categorically not true is just unacceptable and appalling. Mandatory quarantine is "not a sound public health decision" and public health officials -- not politicians -- should be making the policies related to Ebola and public safety”.

Hickox arrived in Newark Liberty Airport on Friday afternoon and after a seven-hour wait at the hospital. She was put in an isolation tent in University Hospital in Newark. She's twice tested negative for Ebola, including a test at the Centers for Disease Control in Atlanta. "To put me in prison," she said, "is just inhumane."

At a news conference Saturday, governor Christie said "I'm sorry if in any way she was inconvenienced, but inconvenience that could occur from having folks that are symptomatic and ill out amongst the public is a much, much greater concern of mine. I hope she recovers quickly."

Hickox said she has nothing to recover from. Her temperature is normal, and she feels fine. "Everyone keeps asking how I'm feeling physically and of course I'm fine physically, but I don't think most people understand what it's like to be alone in a tent and decisions are being made that don't make sense and show no compassion," Hickox said, starting to cry. "I just feel like fear is winning right now, and when fear wins, everyone loses."

She's not allowed to have her luggage and was given paper scrubs to wear. She has no shower, no flushable toilet and the hospital gave her no television or any reading material. Mostly, she says, she stares at the walls. She's not allowed to see her lawyer or anyone else. "The tent has a window, and doctors talk to me in normal clothes from outside the window," she says. "So if there's no risk to them talking to me from outside the window, it doesn't make any sense that my lawyer wouldn't be able to do the same."

Hickox said she worries that her experience will discourage other aid workers from going to West Africa to help quell the Ebola outbreak. She added that she doesn't regret her trip to help Ebola patients in Africa. "Someone asked me earlier would I do this again if I knew what would happen, and my answer is categorically yes," she said. "I feel incredibly privileged to be able to do this work."

sean1982
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Re: Aviation and the Ebola epidemic in West-Africa

Post by sean1982 »

nordikcam wrote:
sean1982 wrote:CNN said the doctor overnighted in BRU. Not me.
If CNN said that it's true of course ! If you saw it on tv it's OF COURSE true ! :shock:
We cannot trust CNN anymore according to some

Passenger
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Re: Aviation and the Ebola epidemic in West-Africa

Post by Passenger »

Het Laatste Nieuws – latest forum contributions:

HLN forum: Hoeveel gaan die negers ons nog kosten we geven verdomme meer uit aan aan negers en moslims dan aan zorgen voor onze bejaarden die gans hun leven hebben gewerkt dat ze er bij krom liepen.

Translated : how much more are those niggers (*) going to cost us? Damned, we spend more money on niggers and muslims than to care for our olderly people who have worked their whole life untill they were criple
(*) remark: nigger is translation for the Dutch word "neger"

- -

HLN forum: In een aantal gevallen kan het tot zes weken duren na de besmetting,vooraleer de eerste symptomen opduiken en je zelf anderen kunt gaan besmetten.... . Ik wil niet cynisch zijn maar soms krijg ik de indruk van een verborgen agenda : de wereldbevolking een beetje uitdunnen,het kaf van het koren scheiden...en de vaccins waar de farma-multinationals duur in geïnvesteerd hebben moeten uiteindelijk ook renderen...

Translated : in some cases it can last up to six weeks after contamination before the first symptoms appear and one can contaminate other people. Ik don’t want to be cynical but this seems to be a hidden agenda: to reduce the world population... and also, the pharma multinationals have invested a lot in vaccins so that money must render.

- -

HLN forum: De passagiers zullen die premie doorgerekend krijgen. Terwijl het net die passagiers zijn, die bibbergeld zouden moeten krijgen als ze op een vliegtuig van SN Brussels zitten. Want zo'n vliegtuig kan vol ebolabeestjes zitten! Ook als ge een Europese vlucht maakt.

Translated : The passengers will have to pay those surcharges. But actually, the passengers should receive jitter money when they’re sitting on an aircraft from SN Brussels. Because such aircraft can full of ebola bugs. Even when you make an intra-European flight.

- -

HLN forum : En sabena blijft maar vliegen op die landen en voor hun veiligheidspersoneel is het verboden om handschoenen te dragen.

Translated : sabena continues to fly to those countries and they forbit their their safety staff to wear gloves.

sean1982
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Re: Aviation and the Ebola epidemic in West-Africa

Post by sean1982 »

Sounds like the opposite of this forum

OO-ITR
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Re: Aviation and the Ebola epidemic in West-Africa

Post by OO-ITR »

Some of the exquise comments on hln.be

I am already surprised that there are no spelling mistakes...

Passenger
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Re: Aviation and the Ebola epidemic in West-Africa

Post by Passenger »

OO-ITR wrote:Some of the exquise comments on hln.be

I am already surprised that there are no spelling mistakes...
I've adjusted most of them...

sean1982
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Re: Aviation and the Ebola epidemic in West-Africa

Post by sean1982 »

OO-ITR wrote:Some of the exquise comments on hln.be

I am already surprised that there are no spelling mistakes...
May I present to you .... Your (potential) customers

Passenger
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Re: Aviation and the Ebola epidemic in West-Africa

Post by Passenger »

sean1982 wrote:
OO-ITR wrote:Some of the exquise comments on hln.be

I am already surprised that there are no spelling mistakes...
May I present to you .... Your (potential) customers
I don't think that people who talk about "SN Brussels" or even "sabena" are potential customers: they'll stick with "we fly Neckermann".

Inquirer
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Re: Aviation and the Ebola epidemic in West-Africa

Post by Inquirer »

About the preventive quarantine:

1- if anybody is perfectly able to self-check body temperature a couple of times per day and conclude that it might be an early stage of Ebola in case of suddenly rising temperatures, it's most certainly trained medical staff, especially if they have worked with Ebola in the most affected countries, no?

2- It's also overkill as a preventive measure in itself, now that it is being empirically demonstrated this virus doesn't seem to be so easy to pass on in our western world, after all. Indeed, all of the incubated persons overhere were living together with at least 1 person, were fully participating in society and making use of public transport while developing their first symptoms even, yet none of the hundreds of people around them got infected by them; one can't thus but conclude that there has to be somehow some very dirty contact with a terminally ill or a deceased Ebola patient to get it, the kind of contact which is very frequent in Africa due to their poor living standards, yet which is mainly to be found inside hospitals only in our world. I don't know about others here, but I for sure do not have the routine of having to assist a terminally ill person relieving himself, nor wash the body of a deceased family member for instance?

sn-remember
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Re: Aviation and the Ebola epidemic in West-Africa

Post by sn-remember »

@Inquirer : Hmm .. Just read that Dr Spencer was actually NOT with his fiancee when he came back home .. There was a denial from the fiancee. (If you want I'll try find the ref)
As for the 2 nurses, I know there was a dog (which can also get infected btw) .. but I kow no more.
Anyways, I think you give the wrong message. Even during the AP, it's better to take precautions with partner ..(cf dr Beutler's messager already quoted here)
For the rest, we might indeed hope that the Health workers know how to behave ..
But as I already said, it's just a part of the travelling flow ....
Last edited by sn-remember on 27 Oct 2014, 13:17, edited 1 time in total.

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