Aviation and the Ebola epidemic in West-Africa

[Passenger]

And you should NOT advise to direct those patients to the first hospital nearby but to a special hospital that can handle these cases. And the way they are conveyed there is NOT simple either, taking a taxi or a public transport is NOT recommended at all.

If ill people go to first hospital nearby, that's fine for me: it's more important they get off the streets. After all, every emergency service from every Belgian hospital is aware of the risk of ebola. That regional hospital can isolate the patient and arrange transport to the ebola-designed hospital (repeat: that's how it was done with transport from a suspected case from Klina Brasschaat to UZA Antwerpen).

Many luchtzak members will take a flight on Monday. One question for them: do you know the ebola-designed hospital in the country you're going to visit tomorrow? My guess: probably not. Same applies for people from West Africa, on a family visit here. If they're living in downtown Antwerp, the family will most probably know how to get to Stuivenberg. It's for sure much better then making an appointment with their GP for the next day, where they will then sit in a waiting room with ten other people. One cannot demand from a Monrovian citizen, on a visit in Antwerpen, that he knows that UZA in Wilrijk is the ebola-designed hospital in the region. And if you don't have own transport, it's even more problematic.

That's why I say with many other qualified people that quarantine measures are indeed necessary.

The calculation done here this afternoon has proven that quarantine is not doable.

Who are those "other qualified people asking for quarantine"? I haven't heard any of the medically qualified people asking for quarantine.

[sn26567]

Ebola crisis: Spanish nurse tests negative for virus

The Spanish nurse who became the first person to contract Ebola outside West Africa has now tested negative for the virus, the Spanish government says,

The result suggests Teresa Romero, 44, is no longer infected - although a second test is required before she can be declared free of Ebola.

Ms Romero tested positive for the virus on 6 October, after she treated two missionaries who had been repatriated from West Africa. The missionaries later died from the virus.

A government statement on Sunday said that a blood test appeared to show that the virus was no longer in her body.

She would be given a second test overnight, the statement said, adding that her health was "developing favourably".

Fifteen other people, including Ms Romero's husband, remain under observation in quarantine, but have not shown any symptoms so far.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-29683616

[sn-remember]

@Inquirer
You still fail to see that this epidemy -like any- has better be controlled from the start.
It is currently estimated a global epidemy outbreak in the EU/US is still unprobable (around 2% chance ?)
Tomorrow that estimate could change, depending on the measures taken worldwide.
Quarantine can be an effective tool if globally coordinated, but the more you wait, the less feasable it is.
..
I am not blissfully trustful of the people in charge but they just took the 1st measures going in the right direction..
The screening measures at BRU were not your cup of tea since you fight the hysteria on this board.
Further measures might equally surprise you (or disappoint you ..) who knows ?
And there is intellectual bias to systematically amalgamate hysteria (which unmistakably exists in particular in the US but not so much on this thread IMHO) with caution.

[airazurxtror]

Gustin has taken advantage of the fact that there was no government; he felt free to take himself the decisison to go on flying to the Ebola countries.
Now, there is a government in Belgium. And the public opinion is that it's up to the Government to take the decison, and nobody else.
In "Le Soir" this morning :
"Comment une compagnie aérienne peut-elle continuer à desservir de telles destinations sans que l'autorité ne jauge au plus tôt les conséquences de ses activités sur la santé publique ?"
How can an airline continue to serve such destinations without the authorities at first gauging the impact of its activities on public health? "
I have heard ordinary people (on the bus, on a market, in a shop) saying that flying to the infected countries is "irresponsible" and "scandalous". I don't know that the popularity of SN is much enhanced by that. I mean, in Belgium and Europe - of course, it might be different in Matonge and Africa.

[Didymus]

Politicians shouldn't do what "the public" deems necessary. Perfect recipe for short sighted measurements, which bring nothing but maybe some temporary popularity for the politicians involved. We have an MD as minister of health and I'm pretty sure she's surrounded by the right advisors which will use objective criteria rather than emotions to take a decision.

[Passenger]

Gustin has taken advantage of the fact that there was no government; he felt free to take himself the decision to go on flying to the Ebola countries. Now, there is a government in Belgium. And the public opinion is that it's up to the Government to take the decison, and nobody else.

No problem that the government rules the country. However, your statement that Gustin took advantage of the fact that there was no goverment is totally untrue: we never were without government! The day that federal government Di Rupo dismissed, the new government Michel took over. The day that Laurette Onkelincx dismissed as minister of Health, she was replaced by Maggie De Block. There was a (long) period that there was no federal parliament, but decisions about ebola were taken by the minister of Health. The fact that there was “no government” also didn’t prevent Melchior Wathelet to amend his dispersion plan, isn’t it? But yet, when it’s about Brussels Airlines, it’s “Gustin took advantage”. So predictuous…

In "Le Soir" this morning: How can an airline continue to serve such destinations without the authorities at first gauging the impact of its activities on public health?" .

I don't know if it was an editorial, an article, or just a reader reaction in Le Soir. But actually, it doesn't matter, because it's wrong anyway. The authorities always knew that there was a very small risk that a person contaminated with the ebola virus would board a Brussels bound aircraft, even without showing ebola symptoms. But the authorities know that such person (= without fever) cannot contaminate other persons during the flight, hence they took “the risk”.

And more important is the reason why Belgian authorities allow commercial airlines to fly to/from ebola. Actually, it’s plain simple once accept the basic principle of the fight against ebola: a constant and spreaded flow of western aid workers is the only way to stop ebola in Africa, and stopping ebola in Africa is the only way to prevent that ebola becomes a worldwide pandemy.

I have heard ordinary people (on the bus, on a market, in a shop) saying that flying to the infected countries is "irresponsible" and "scandalous". I don't know that the popularity of SN is much enhanced by that. I mean, in Belgium and Europe - of course, it might be different in Matonge and Africa.

Strange: I've also been on the bus, the market, the shop, the supermarket (x2), the pharmacy, the library, the bank, the post office, the book shop, and never ever I heard someone talking about ebola - let alone that fact that Brussels Airlines was brought up. Actually, I also visited a public travel fair from a friend/travel agent on Sunday: two questions "is there ebola in Kenya?", but not one anti Brussels Airlines remark. At the contrary even: the demand for the Brussels Airlines tickets at 69 Euro was incredibly superb!

[convair]

@Didymus
I fully second that.
Personnally, I haven't posted on this thread for quite some time, actually since it became obvious it was squatted by mostly hysterical contributors.
I hope the designation of an "ebola coordinator" will help bring some serenity on this forum.

[FlightMate]

Well I certainly hope you are all right and I am wrong. No ill feelings really.

[airazurxtror]

I don't know if it was an editorial, an article, or just a reader reaction in Le Soir.

"Le Soir" today page 9.
Main article : "Contrôles Ebola à Bruxelles-National - Epidémie : Les passagers en provenance d'Afrique de l'Ouest seront examinés", by Thomas Casavecchia.
"Commentaire" by Pascal Martin (a regular journalist) : "Ebola : mieux vaut tard que jamais" - on two colums, from where I have taken the sentence :
" Comment une compagnie aérienne peut-elle continuer à desservir de telles destinations sans que l'autorité ne jauge au plus tôt les conséquences de ses activités sur la santé publique ?"
He adds, further on :
"Ce n'est pas faire souffler un vent de panique que de s'adresser ainsi au bon sens.

[airazurxtror]

http://www.lefigaro.fr/international/20 ... nsuite.php

Comment encourager les volontaires occidentaux et les ONG?
L'urgence est de les assurer qu'ils seront vite rapatriés par avion sanitaire, si besoin est. Nous avons cette capacité, dans un délai de 48 heures. Le Royaume-Uni le fait déjà, l'Allemagne y est prête, avec des appareils militaires. L'UE vient de signer avec la compagnie américaine Phoenix Air pour trois avions qui permettent de faire rentrer les cas sévères. Quelque 3 millions d'euros sont budgétés.

How to encourage western volunteers and NGOs [to go to West Africa]?
The urgency is to assure them that they will be quickly repatriated by air ambulance if necessary . We have this ability within 48 hours. The UK is already doing it, Germany is ready, with military aircraft . The EU has signed with the American company Phoenix Air for three aircraft that make it possible to repatriate the severe cases. Approximately 3 million are budgeted .

http://phoenixair.com/ambulance.html

[convair]

I don't know if it was an editorial, an article, or just a reader reaction in Le Soir.

"Le Soir" today page 9.
Main article : "Contrôles Ebola à Bruxelles-National - Epidémie : Les passagers en provenance d'Afrique de l'Ouest seront examinés", by Thomas Casavecchia.
"Commentaire" by Pascal Martin (a regular journalist) : "Ebola : mieux vaut tard que jamais" - on two colums, from where I have taken the sentence :
" Comment une compagnie aérienne peut-elle continuer à desservir de telles destinations sans que l'autorité ne jauge au plus tôt les conséquences de ses activités sur la santé publique ?"
He adds, further on :
"Ce n'est pas faire souffler un vent de panique que de s'adresser ainsi au bon sens.

Le Soir or not Le Soir, the comment by Pascal Martin ( a so-called regular "journalist") is not worth more than a twitter by you or me: on what does he base his assumption that the consequences have not been assessed? So far, he has no case, does he?
This is unfortunately a perfect example of what journalism has become: no more than un-checked comments, no substance, no added-value. And they complain about decrease in readership!!!

[sn-remember]

After all, every emergency service from every Belgian hospital is aware of the risk of ebola. That regional hospital can isolate the patient and arrange transport to the ebola-designed hospital (repeat: that's how it was done with transport from a suspected case from Klina Brasschaat to UZA Antwerpen).

Yah in theory .. in practice he might well be in promiscuty for a while.

Many luchtzak members will take a flight on Monday. One question for them: do you know the ebola-designed hospital in the country you're going to visit tomorrow? My guess: probably not. Same applies for people from West Africa, on a family visit here. If they're living in downtown Antwerp, the family will most probably know how to get to Stuivenberg. It's for sure much better then making an appointment with their GP for the next day, where they will then sit in a waiting room with ten other people. One cannot demand from a Monrovian citizen, on a visit in Antwerpen, that he knows that UZA in Wilrijk is the ebola-designed hospital in the region. And if you don't have own transport, it's even more problematic..

I hope the team put in place at BRU for screening purpose will give all the detailed info on what to do .. A leaflet should be handed describing the prophylaxis measures to be taken during 21 days (attention with all body fluids -even if the virus load is believed to be low) and what's to be done in case of symptom manifestation. All GP in the country should be briefed the same.

That's why I say with many other qualified people that quarantine measures are indeed necessary.

The calculation done here this afternoon has proven that quarantine is not doable.

My calculation done yesterday afternoon tends to prove the opposite. As I wrote, with something like min 500 euro/pax, it should already be feasable.

Who are those "other qualified people asking for quarantine"? I haven't heard any of the medically qualified people asking for quarantine.

But obviously the employers of the health service workers active in the EB-3 and among them Doctors without Borders .. I've no time to find the references now but I am sure you can do it.
Problem is people (also the professional ones as has been illustrated in the US) do not always respect the instructions.
And obviously the beta-pax is not liable to know -even less respect- the basic prophylaxis measures.
BTW did you read this ? (already published here)
http://www.newrepublic.com/article/1198 ... ase-doctor

The authorities always knew that there was a very small risk that a person contaminated with the ebola virus would board a Brussels bound aircraft, even without showing ebola symptoms. But the authorities know that such person (= without fever) cannot contaminate other persons during the flight, hence they took “the risk”.

The risk of a pax being contaminated in a plane outbound from EB-3 is doubling every 3 weeks. It's believed around 1out of 20 of the general population might be contaminated in january (probably a higher rate among health workers).
That's why I say with many other qualified people that quarantine measures are indeed necessary.
As to the last part of your quote, caution is the key word.

[b720]

This is hysteria.. It is not an airborne virus. One has to physically touch an ill person to get infected. I have friends living in Freetown, and they say that as long as one does not touch other people one is not at risk.. they seem to have stopped shaking hands etc.. and always cleaning hands.. otherwise daily life is normal. Our western media is blowing things out of proportions, as usual. Like we assume that Damascus is like Berlin anno 1945..while life goes on,, people go to the movies and resto. etc in Damascus.

[sn-remember]

Well I certainly hope you are all right and I am wrong. No ill feelings really.

Same frome me of course
+1

[sn-remember]

You forget the households with kids and babies it seems ...

On average, the Belgian household is not even 2 persons.
I think you'll find the average heathcare worker's household to match this statistic fairly well, I'd think?
If not, well then bring your partner as well as your kid(s), done.

Bring nobody, keep away, go alone

[Passenger]

BTW did you read this ? (already published here)
http://www.newrepublic.com/article/1198 ... ase-doctor

Yes, I have read it. And for sure, Brussels Airlines bashers will love that title "We Should Quarantine Everyone Coming From Countries With Ebola Outbreaks".

Pity though you don't have time to read the full article. Because doctor Beutler speaks only about the situation for the U.S.: "it is a feasible strategy with only 150 people trying to enter the country from West-Africa".

I do not disagree with dr. Beutler on medical aspects, but I disagree with him on his non-medical view that a quarantine is just a “considerable inconvenience”. Two weeks ago, some tourists (including luchtzak avgreeks) were blocked in their hotel in Skopje for 3 days because of an ebola alert. “It was hell”, one of them told Flemish TV. Can you imagine what would happen if you have to stay for 21 days in the same hotel? Even if you know before you have to?

Let me tell you what will happen with Beutler’s "inconvenience”. People like Erin Duncan will travel to Accra or Lagos, board a plane to Paris, go their embassy there and ask for a new passport. And two days later, they board a flight to the U.S. Once landed, their documents show they’re coming from Paris and their passport doens't contradict that. So no quarantine for hem, perhaps not even a fever check! And actually, you can’t blame travelers for avoiding an harrassment (aka “inconvenience”).

Anyway, let’s go back to the article, shall we. Here are some unedited quotes from doctor Beutler:

"...Note that I am not advocating travel bans..."

"...It is hard to disagree with Dr. Anthony Fauci, the National Institutes of Health director of infectious diseases, and CDC Director Thomas Frieden when they point out the necessity of engaging the outbreak at its source, and being able to provide material support to the affected regions..."

So actually, it seems that dr. Beutler agrees with the general principe of the fight against ebola: a constant and spreaded flow of western aid workers is the only way to stop ebola in Africa, and stopping ebola in Africa is the only way to prevent that ebola becomes a worldwide pandemy.

Why is that principle so difficult to a) understand that, and b) to accept that?

[sn-remember]

I support Dr Beutler's analysis as a whole. So your last sentence makes no sense to me.
And the rest little sense IMO.
He says it will work better if the measures are taken globally.
And as there is currently a very small amount of scheduled flights from EB-3, it's more easy to implement.
BTW no acc or los flights to my knowledge.
And cheating as you say is always possible but punishable.
I'll let you comment further if you like but on the message of Beutler, personally I've nothing to add.

[Passenger]

I support Dr Beutler's analysis as a whole. So your last sentence makes no sense to me.

If you accept his analysis as a whole, that must include the following quote from him: "...It is hard to disagree with Dr. Anthony Fauci, the National Institutes of Health director of infectious diseases, and CDC Director Thomas Frieden when they point out the necessity of engaging the outbreak at its source, and being able to provide material support to the affected regions..."

How can one engage the outbreak at its source (cfr dr Beutler) without western volunteer doctors and nurses?

With drones perhaps? Or internet speedcourses Medecin for Monrovian citizens?

You see: if you accept dr. Beutler's analysis, you must accept that volunteers need to get there.

[airazurxtror]

http://www.dhnet.be/actu/belgique/ebola ... 2e5090d9c7

Extraits :

"Il reste beaucoup à faire pour protéger d'Ebola les travailleurs de Brussels Airport", a commenté lundi Olivier Van Camp (BTB-FGTB) à l'issue d'une rencontre entre Brussels Airport Company (BAC), les employeurs du site et les travailleurs.
"On doit aussi mettre en place des procédures pour les autres catégories de personnel, comme les travailleurs en charge du nettoyage, de l'enregistrement, des paquets chez DHL ou encore du cargo.
Enfin, différentes directives émises par la Santé publique ne sont pas applicables sur le terrain. On demande par exemple que les travailleurs ne viennent plus travailler en habits de travail. C'est impossible pour les firmes de sécurité car elles ne disposent pas de vestiaires à l'aéroport. On demande aussi aux gens de ne plus manger sur leur lieu de travail mais certains n'ont pas d'autre endroit où aller".
Une nouvelle réunion est prévue mercredi. Les syndicats espèrent que le SPF Santé publique y sera présent, ce qui n'était pas le cas ce lundi.
---------------
" Much remains to be done to protect from Ebola the workers of Brussels Airport ," said Olivier Van Camp monday ( BTB- FGTB ) after a meeting between Brussels Airport Company (BAC ), employers and site workers .
"We must also establish procedures for other staff , such as workers in charge of cleaning , registration , packets at DHL and cargo .
Finally, various directives issued by the Public Health are not applicable in the field. For example, they request that workers do not come to work in work clothes . It is impossible for security firms because they do not have lockers at the airport. They also ask people not to eat on their place of work, but some have no other place to go. "
Another meeting is scheduled for Wednesday . The unions hope that the Federal Public Health will be there , which was not the case Monday.

[sn26567]

European Commission to audit exit screening in Ebola-affected countries

A high-level meeting of 21 European health ministers, co-organized by the Italian Presidency and the European Commission, has failed to reach common ground on the issue of entry screening at Europe’s airports for passengers arriving from Ebola-affected countries.

The UK, France and the Czech Republic are the only European Union (EU) states following the US lead in implementing entry screening at some airports. The rest of the region is following World Health Organization (WHO) and European Centre for Disease Prevention & Control (ECDC) guidance that entry screening will have only limited effectiveness and that exit screening from the Ebola-affected regions is a more effective route to follow.

To that end, the Commission has agreed with WHO to undertake an audit of exit screening systems in place in the affected countries to check their effectiveness and reinforce them as necessary.

http://atwonline.com/safety/european-co ... -countries