Aviation and the Ebola epidemic in West-Africa

[sn-remember]

Excuse me...sir ! Are u doctor, Ebola's specialist ?

NO are you?


Breaking news:
2nd health care worker tests positive for Ebola at Dallas hospital

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/10/15/healt ... -outbreak/

So 2 people infected by the guy transported to Dallas by SN...
Well done!

If confirmed, so dramatic !!
If that is true the DR virologist from Leuven (forgot his name VanRast something ?) which Passenger quoted as saying 1 case max in Belgium if EBV hits the country, or 2 at the most) is already proved wrong ..
Something must be overhauled in the prophilaxis rules applied ?

[airazurxtror]

Yes, it is confirmed :
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-29628622

Extracts :
A second health worker in the US state of Texas has tested positive for Ebola, health officials say.
Both health workers treated Liberian man Thomas Duncan, who died last week after becoming the first person diagnosed with Ebola in the US.
The identity of the second health worker has not yet been revealed, but officials said the person also cared for Mr Duncan while he was in hospital.
Last weekend, officials announced nurse Nina Pham, 26, had been exposed to Ebola at a Dallas hospital when she treated Mr Duncan.
Doctors at the Health Presbyterian hospital said she was in good condition on Tuesday.

[sn-remember]

If it wouldn't be safe to operate, SN would have stopped flying already.

Most other airlines - including Air France and British Airways - have stopped flying there, thinking it's unsafe.
Who is right ? The future will tell.

Not right ! AF is flying daily from CDG to CKY ! And SN two times a week !

AF is expected to restart flights to cky from oct 17 (was reported in one of the previous posts)
Did'nt check though

[Passenger]

If that is true the DR virologist from Leuven (forgot his name) which Passenger quoted as saying 1 case max in Belgium if EBV hits the country, or 2 at the most) is already proved wrong ..
Something must be overhauled in the prophilaxis rules applied ?

Van Ranst is very clear about ebola: we'll have isolated ebola cases in Belgium, yes, but ebola will not become epidemic in Belgium. That is, if we (= the west) is going to flight ebola the way we had to do it months ago.

Some say that even one ebola fatality in the western world is one too much. But then, they don't take into account that this fatality is our own bloody fault: we (= the western world) have failed to attack ebola when it started. We (= the western world) knew very good that countries like Siera Leone had far too little doctors and nurses to fight ebola, but yet we (= the western world) didn't assist them, altough we had the possibilities.

It's shocking to read how some people here react to this western failure in true HLN-forum style: "let's isolate those three countries: that will solve the problem for us". Meinie Nicolai (Doctors Without Borders) and prof. Van Ranst say that we (the western world) urgently have to do exactly the opposite: "we'll have to go there with more people to fight and contain ebola".

[nordikcam]

AF is expected to restart flights to cky from oct 17 (was reported in one of the previous posts)
Did'nt check though

It will be this saturday

[sn-remember]

Possibly the first case in Belgium :
A patient was admitted on Monday morning at St. Pierre Hospital, Brussels. And one suspects that he suffers from Ebola. "The patient was suffering from high fever this morning. And as he stayed in Guinea recently, the procedure is that it is immediately placed in isolation at the university hospital, "said the spokesman of the FPS. We must now wait 48 hours for diagnosis and whether the patient is actually attacked by the terrible virus, or if it's only malaria.

It's no ebola, lab tests in Hamburg have revealed.

http://nieuws.vtm.be/binnenland/112135- ... -met-ebola

Japan has a 30 minute lab test, experimental medicine available and 47 hospitals across the country on high alert training their staff on quarantine protocols. The border quarantine is staffed and they look at you very suspiciously, ready to stop you at any suspicious sign.

In the meanwhile, Belgium sends its lab tests to Hamburg for a result within 48 hours.
Belgium is not ready for Ebola, believe me.

Indeed !
You have a point there !

[sn-remember]

Some say that even one ebola fatality in the western world is one too much. But then, they don't take into account that this fatality is our own bloody fault: we (= the western world) have failed to attack ebola when it started. We (= the western world) knew very good that countries like Siera Leone had far too little doctors and nurses to fight ebola, but yet we (= the western world) didn't assist them, altough we had the possibilities.

No use to cry on spilled milk.
There is a huge work to be done on the spot of the epidemy. It was indeed VERY irresponsible not to act STRONGLY from day-1 (I think in March) in the concerned countries.
But your 1st line remains nonetheles pertinent ..
Bcs the day-1 in Europe and America is .. 2 wks ago ?
So we are talking about the appropriate measures to take here, and the issue of continuing or not scheduled flights is raised. I think this issue should also be discussed at a more global level (EU at least) .
Meanwhile the health security of pax, crew and a/c cleaners and handlers shoud be reassessed.

It's shocking to read how some people here react to this western failure in true HLN-forum style: "let's isolate those three countries: that will solve the problem for us". Meinie Nicolai (Doctors Without Borders) and prof. Van Ranst say that we (the western world) urgently have to do exactly the opposite: "we'll have to go there with more people to fight and contain ebola".

What is shocking is the misuse of concepts here ..
Of course "we'll have to go there with more people to fight and contain ebola" but it has nothing to see with the continuation of scheduled flights (as sufficiently already explained here and elsewhere)
And it's not bcs it's HLN (which btw I did'nt even know the name before yesterday), that everything they report should be crap ... However, for the respect of readers, I agree it's better to take references from serious publishers (which I always do)

[Flanker2]

I'm glad that people like SN-Remember can think beyond tomorrow, to share concern about Ebola.

What if I am wrong? What if Airazur, sn-remember, SN cabin crew, airport unions, UK government and HLN readers are wrong?
Sure, a bit of fear, a bit of money spent unnecessarily,but the next day, it's business as usual.

What if the so-called experts, SN, Belgian government, SN265567, Passenger, Inquirer are wrong?
Global spreading, thousands if not millions of unnecessary deaths, loss of control, total chaos, end of normal life as we know it, total economic collapse, etc...

So tell me, given the current trend of the virus, which is a quite dramatic growth curve, which is the safe route to take? Better be safe than sorry, or we continue and see what happens?

If you're a captain on an aircraft, and you see that your aircraft is losing control steadily, it's getting worse fast with no improvement in sight and you're not sure if you can regain control if it worsens any further, do you continue to destination because it's going to make the managers happy or do you land immediately?

[sn26567]

This post typically should be moderated IMO

It's OK to call the attention of the moderators on posts which should be moderated, but let the moderators decide what has to be done.

[airazurxtror]

Florence Muls, la porte-parole de l'aéroport de Bruxelles-Nationale (Zaventem) assure que toutes les mesures sont prises. Depuis lundi, les bagages en provenance de toute l'Afrique et présentant des fuites liquides doivent être immédiatement détruites. Cela se fait sous la responsabilité de Saniport, un organisme public. Ce mercredi après-midi, l'aéroport ne signalait aucune action de la part des bagagistes.


Les ministres de la Santé des Vingt-huit feront le point jeudi sur le virus Ebola. Les procédures de screening aux aéroports seront discutées, de même que les protocoles de prévention suivis dans les hôpitaux.

La question de l'évacuation des Européens contaminés, et notamment du personnel médical, sera également sur la table. "Nous ne pouvons motiver du personnel à se rendre en Afrique que s'il existe la garantie qu'ils pourront être rapatriés", note un autre expert. Or, à l'heure actuelle, les capacités d'évacuation sécurisée sont faibles.

------------------------

Florence Muls , the spokeswoman for Brussels Airport (Zaventem) ensures that all measures are taken. Since Monday , luggage from all over Africa having fluid leaks must be immediately destroyed. This is done under the responsibility of Saniport , a public body. On Wednesday afternoon , the airport reported no action by baggage handlers .


Ministers of Health of the Twenty- eight will update Thursday on the Ebola virus. The screening procedures at airports will be discussed , as well as prevention protocols followed in hospitals.

The question of sending home the contaminated Europeans , including medical staff, will also be on the table. "We cannot motivate staff to travel to Africa if there is no guarantee that they will be repatriated ," said another expert. However, at present , the secured repatriation capacity is poor .

Read more :
http://www.rtbf.be/info/economie/detail ... id=8378667

[sn26567]

This post typically should be moderated IMO

It's OK to call the attention of the moderators on posts which should be moderated, but let the moderators decide what has to be done.

Let me add that I am feeding this thread with information about Ebola, good or bad news, whatever. Remember that I have been the first person in the world to report (higher in this thread) that Thomas Duncan travelled on board of an SN flight. That does not mean that SN is responsible for anything.

On the other hand, the second infection in Texas is absolutely not the responsibility of SN. When Thomas Duncan travelled on board of an SN aeroplane (and on two UA planes), he was NOT contagious. Nobody got infected on board of either aircraft. The responsibility lies with the Texas hospital which sent him home after he showed the first symptoms and later did not strictly follow the protocols to treat him after he was hospitalised. It is totally irresponsible to accuse SN of negligence and thus create irrational fears.

And to reply to another post, the SN in my nickname is a remembrance to the time I worked at Sabena. I have no relation whatsoever with Brussels Airlines.

Finally, I have more trust in the "so-called" real medical experts which have many proven credentials than in the "so-called" experts expressing their views in HLN.

If moderation seems to go only one way (which is not correct, as we have moderated posts of both 'pro' and 'contra' trends), blame it on the credibility of the opinions expressed in this thread.

[Passenger]

What if the so-called experts, SN, Belgian government, SN265567, Passenger, Inquirer are wrong?

1. I do no call myself an ebola expert (and neither does one of the others you mention, I guess). Mostly we just copy/paste what the real experts say.

2. You have forgotten some people in your list with people who insist that more people are sent to ebola regions: the World Health Organization, Doctors Without Borders (Médecins Sans Frontières), Tropical Institute Antwerp, dr. Peter Piot, prof. dr. Van Ranst, the ERCC (European Commission's Emergency Response Coordination Centre), the American CDC (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention).

3. When 95% of all medical ebola experts have the same opinion, it looks obvious to me that non-medical people accept that they are right.

[sn-remember]

This post typically should be moderated IMO

It's OK to call the attention of the moderators on posts which should be moderated, but let the moderators decide what has to be done.

Yes but you did'nt "moderate" it to my disappointment ..
Or do you think this sort of "personal attack" post is acceptable ?
Let's agree to disagree then ..
BTW as you know, most forums offer a special button attached at each post to attract the attention of the moderator should the good practice rules not be respected ..

[sn26567]

BTW as you know, most forums offer a special button attached at each post to attract the attention of the moderator should the good practice rules not be applied ..

Also on Luchtzak: the exclamation mark on the right of the first line of each post.

[sn-remember]

oops my fault

[sn26567]

Health officials are alerting airline passengers who were on the same flight as a Texas nurse who was diagnosed with Ebola the next day. The 132 passengers were on Frontier Airlines flight 1143 from Cleveland to Dallas-Fort Worth on Monday.

The hospital worker was involved in the care of a Liberian man who died of Ebola last week at a Texas Health Presbyterian Hospital in Dallas.

The airplane's crew said the nurse had no symptoms of Ebola during the flight. But the next morning she developed a fever and on Tuesday night tested positive for Ebola.

Infected Ebola patients are not considered contagious until they have symptoms. But the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention is asking the passengers to call the health agency (1 800-CDC-INFO or 1-800-232-4636) so they can be monitored.

Source: Associated Press

[Flanker2]

2. You have forgotten some people in your list with people who insist that more people are sent to ebola regions: the World Health Organization, Doctors Without Borders (Médecins Sans Frontières), Tropical Institute Antwerp, dr. Peter Piot, prof. dr. Van Ranst, the ERCC (European Commission's Emergency Response Coordination Centre), the American CDC (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention).

3. When 95% of all medical ebola experts have the same opinion, it looks obvious to me that non-medical people accept that they are right.

It seems that those experts forgot to take into account the biggest source of errors in most disciplines: the human factor.
Ebola is spreading despite that it's supposed to get contained at health care facilities, as proved by 3 existing cases, 1 nurse in Spain and 2 in Dallas and more to come.

All the experts said that first-world health facilities will not have problems containing the disease.
While that is clearly wrong, one could even argue that in Dallas, the virus has already spread under containment as one case resulted in 2 cases.

SN2556, thank you for posting that information in fairness. I hope that there were no infections on that flight.

[Passenger]

It seems that those experts forgot to take into account the biggest source of errors in most disciplines: the human factor.

Amazing. Someone without any medical certificate or graduate, let alone a medical training (*), states that our top medical experts have all forgotten the basic principle of their job.

(*) let me guess: you do have medical graduate, isn't it? University of Kinshasa, campus N'Dolo...

[sn-remember]

1 case resulted in 2 additional cases ..
So the exponentional model which was believed to have a ratio somewhere between 1.5 and 2 in Liberia is already at 2 in Dallas. And what's more under contaiment within a special care unit as you point out.
This contributes to invalidate the claim that the contagion process would be slower in the 1st world ...
However too early to draw definite conclusions.
The only conclusion we can draw at this stage is to be extremely vigilant and be cautious regarding what we consider to be true.

[Flanker2]

Dr. Thomas Frieden, director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, told reporters that the health care worker should not have been on the plane — both because she had cared for the Ebola patient and because she had a temperature of 99.5 degrees before she boarded.

“She should not have traveled on a commercial airline,” Frieden said.

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ebola- ... ry-n226551