Aviation and the Ebola epidemic in West-Africa

[sean1982]

No, it's not the professionals who are spreading the infection ... but joe public who has nothing to seek there at the moment. Nobody is talking about a complete quarantine, just about COMMERCIAL air travel

[lumumba]

No, it's not the professionals who are spreading the infection ... but joe public who has nothing to seek there at the moment. Nobody is talking about a complete quarantine, just about COMMERCIAL air travel

But that's impossible poeple will move anyway ...
And then without control it's worse the OMC says it's save to do so ( flying to does county's)and important to do so who are you....
You are a doctor in tropical diseases....
I don't think so....

[sean1982]

neither are you
besides those cases that we're spread through air travel (or repatriation) the virus has been contained mostly to 3 countries. That's where it has to be fought.

[lumumba]

neither are you
besides those cases that we're spread through air travel (or repatriation) the virus has been contained mostly to 3 countries. That's where it has to be fought.

But I don't speak I follow the OMC...

[sean1982]

I follow the university of Boston

[airazurxtror]

Ebola checks WILL be extended to Manchester Airport if the threat level of the disease increases, Health Secretary Jeremy Hunt confirmed.
Checks are due to start at Heathrow today and expanded to Gatwick and Eurostar by the end of the week.
But they will also be rolled out to airports outside London if the disease is deemed to be spreading more quickly.
Checks would begin in the arrivals hall of Manchester Airport along with Birmingham Airport, Mr Hunt said yesterday.

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/ ... la-7929342

[Flanker2]

Ebola checks WILL be extended to Manchester Airport if the threat level of the disease increases, Health Secretary Jeremy Hunt confirmed.
Checks are due to start at Heathrow today and expanded to Gatwick and Eurostar by the end of the week.
But they will also be rolled out to airports outside London if the disease is deemed to be spreading more quickly.
Checks would begin in the arrivals hall of Manchester Airport along with Birmingham Airport, Mr Hunt said yesterday.

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/ ... la-7929342

Those don't seem to be chosen randomly. The U.K. is sending a clear message to SN and RAM that their pax are not very welcome.
Gatwick is a gateway for RAM, while LHR, MAN, BHX and Eurostar all connect to SN or Belgium.

If we have a few cases in Belgium, I see the UK closing their borders to Belgium.
Let's hope that SN continuing their flights for the sake of "freedom of travel" doesn't end up costing our freedom to travel to the U.K.

[Inquirer]

Sir,

your posts on this topic and the suggestions contained in it are starting to border on the ridicule now:
the UK may not just forbid entry from Belgium or close it's borders to our airlines: not for as long as the UKIP is in opposition at least.

I'd suggest you to return to the realm of reality and leave the realm of fictitious possibilities, as you are severely drifting afloat, guided by an irrational phobia for something which carries less risk to our daily life than driving a car to work in the morning: or shall we forbid that too while putting life saving preventive measures in place?

FWIW- I know this is an aviation forum, but the port of Antwerp (as well as many other main ports Europe) is also receiving container ships (and crew) coming from West Africa on a daily basis almost.
Just to show you that if you want to quarantine someone, it's likely going to have to be us, rather than them, but I for one am not willing to be locked into my country for something as thinspread as Ebola just for the sake of appeasing a bunch of hysteric people who have lost all common sense and want to revert to irrational solutions, driven to them by fear rather than reason.
I enjoy living in an open society and I want to keep it that way, so please pull yourself together.

[sean1982]

With that difference that by ship it takes several days to reach belgium, so the disease will probably manifest itself on board the ship so proper quarantine measures can be taken.

Your open society will be severly under threat if ebola breaks out.

[Inquirer]

I saw a documentary once about how our old cars head to West Africa (and get scrapped on the way down there, throwing everything which they can't use overboard) and the trip to Africa takes about just over a week or so, so the return travel time is about the same too I supose? Since incubation is up to 21 days, merchant ships are theoretically another possibile mean of transportation, sean.

This is an aviation site, so I understand it isn't widely discussed here, but I feel it is at it's place to mention it here for once nevertheless because it shows you that there are far more means of entry than what is widely being discussed so far, something the authorities must know very well too, and why it is indeed not very effective to forbid any flying according to them, especially not given that such would also complicate the aid effort.

[Flanker2]

Some views on the net:

What everyone seems to be overlooking is that United Airlines does not fly to or out of Montrovia, Freetown or Conakry, but they do fly out of Brussels, where passengers having arrived on Brussels Airlines flights from the aformentioned capital cities of the most Ebola-ravaged countries transfer to United Airlines flights to the US and elsewhere. Are you people suggesting that United Airlines stop flying to Brussels? What needs to stop are the Brussels Airlines flights from Africa to Brussels. I have written to the EU Health and Consumer Affairs Commissioner, to the Belgian health ministry and other authorities to no avail thus far. The real villain in this ongoing criminal and reckless endangerment, the company that boards Ebola victims in their country of origin is not United Airlines, but Brussels Airlines. That should be everybody’s focus.

However, United Airlines (and others) could: (1) refuse connections/code-sharing with affected airlines (e.g. Brussels Airlines) that fly to/from Liberia and other afflicted countries, (2) refuse to board passengers from afflicted countries, refunding their tickets, (3) border patrol agents explicitly ask/check where visitor has been, baring visitor from entry or directing visitor in quarantine zone, etc ... Interesting World Health Organization plot with respect to travel reduction impact on cases ... http://www.mobs-lab.org/upload... ... although travel reduction does not SOLVE the problem, it does reduce the magnitude of the problem.

http://gotnews.com/easy-way-stop-united ... a-flights/

UA and SN are also risking big lawsuits, as infected people's families, especially American ones, will probably not take relief with SN's excuses. In a court case, especially in the U.S., despite WHO's calls to keep cheaper commercial air bridges active, a court will probably not care about WHO's position considering it is only an advisory entity and not an enforcing authority.

Some petitions have already been started:
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petiti ... k/FFJHH9yX

[Flanker2]

Ebola alarm on a JFK-BRU SN flight.

Op de luchthaven van Zaventem is vanochtend omstreeks 8 uur een vliegtuig van Brussels Airlines geland, met aan boord een passagier die schijnbaar enkele symptomen van ebola vertoonde. "De man was tijdens de vlucht vanuit New York misselijk geworden. Hij moest braken. Plots liep er ook bloed van zijn benen naar beneden", aldus een getuige aan boord.
"Het vliegend personeel heeft meteen handschoenen en mondmaskers aangetrokken om hem een beetje te kunnen verzorgen. Na de landing kwam een dokter aan boord - zonder enige bescherming. We zijn doodongerust." Volgens Kim Daenen, woordvoerster van Brussels Airlines, had de passagier geen koorts en werd geen quarantaine ingesteld. "Hij is daarna overgebracht naar het ziekenhuis. Volgens onze voorlopige informatie lijkt het er niet meteen op dat de man ebola zou hebben." De man had een congres bijgewoond in de VS.

http://www.hln.be/hln/nl/957/Binnenland ... ntem.dhtml


Comment:
The doctor came on board without any protection... obviously Belgium is very well prepared to deal with Ebola.

[Passenger]

Ebola alarm on a JFK-BRU SN flight.

http://www.hln.be/hln/nl/957/Binnenland ... ntem.dhtml

"Rumours and panic are spreading faster than the virus."

"90% of the cost of the outbreak arise from "irrational attempts of the public to avoid infection".

Not quotes from me, but from WHO head Margaret Chan in an interview with the BBC, few days ago:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-29603818

By the way, the "ebola patient" was diagnozed as having no fever.

[Inquirer]

Oh dear,
this is exactly what happens when mass hysteria takes over from common sense.
I notice that quite a few people here too are no longer willing to discuss, nor are they open to reason: they are clearly infected with fear.
Following their own advice, I'd dare to suggest to the moderators that they put those people in quarantine for their own sake as well as the quality of this and other discussions on this forum, because this constant stream of reports aimed at increasing panic has nothing to do with aviation any longer; they have become doomsday advocates highjacking this topic from 5 AM till 23 PM. Pfft.
Some urgent moderation is required while some isolated rest for the autors of these posts might be a healthy measure too, IMHO.

[Passenger]

This morning a SN flight landed in Zaventem, with aboard a pax that is showing different symptoms of Ebola. He became unwell and vomited. Suddenly, blood started dropping from his legs, accordin to a whitness. "The cabin crew put on gloves and masks to take a little bit care of him. After landing, a doctor came aboard, without protective equipment. We're afraid". According to SN spokeswoman, the passenger didn't have any fever and wasn't placed in quarantine. He was subsequently taken to the hospital. According to our information, it doesn't look like the man has Ebola.

Comment: The doctor came on board without any protection... obviously Belgium is very well prepared to deal with Ebola.

Comment: yes, the doctor probably came on board without any protection at the moment he entered the aircraft. But because he knew where the patient was sitting (I assume at the back of the aircraft), and because ebola cannot be transmitted via air, the doctor had time to protect himself whilst arriving near the patient.

By the way, very amazing report from that one witness, wouldn't you agree? "Blood starting to drop from his legs". Although, Het Laatste Nieuws says "bloed liep naar beneden". Flanker2, that's not "dropping", that is "flowing downwards". Wonder if the passenger, coming from a congress in New York, was wearing short pants, making it obvious for that witness to see blood flowing downwards from his legs. Ah no, he was wearing white clothings off course, hence the bloodmarks.

Conclusion: I agree with Inquirer.

[nordikcam]

Conclusion: I agree with Inquirer.

I agree too !

[Inquirer]

It's exactly the kind of reaction you get when you report about the elevated risk of something all the time: look at how the perceived high risk of a terror attack in Belgium is keeping a group of schoolgoing children from a primary school in Limburg away from a long awaited trip to our capital.
Brussels is not somewhere in IS territory is it?
I have a work diner in Brussels tonight, yet I feel perfectly safe going there: am I totally insane now taking such a risk? I think some people better stop reading tabloids and watch vtmnieuws and better come outside of their homes a bit more, because then they'll notice not everybody unknown in the street is either an IS combatant or an Ebola victim.
Enough said: this topic is in for a serious cleansing or in case of repeat: a total lock even!

[sn-remember]

This is one of my comments that got deleted by our moderator, for no reason at all. This forum is far from objective, but what else can you expect from a moderator whose username starts with "SN". As I said 100 times before .... It doesn't matter WHO is flying there ... NO ONE should. Organised airbridges that can bring supplies and professionals to the region are urgently needed. Joe Public has nothing to seek there at the moment.
Now I will probably be banned again

No you are not .. this time !
Lets give credit to sn26567 that he presistently delivers a great job here.
What would this site be without him ?
However like everybody you can fail at times ..

Moderators will remove posts (as they have already done previously in this thread) if airline bashing and irrational fears fuelling do not stop.

Not sure I understand the meaning of this though ..
Because personally I did'nt see the "irrational fear fuelling" much on this forum. Or was it censured ? We are exchanging facts and opinions knowing that underlying emotions are part of the picture.
Same for "airline bashing" although I think he means the way, the form, the manner. If so he means well.
Anyways the golden rules on any forum in my view are :
- hit the ball not the player
- stay on topic
- site policy should be : no horse in the race. (but the moderator is a contributor like anyone)

And now, pls back to topic ?
Best rgds to all

[UAE777]

Conclusion: I agree with Inquirer.

I agree too !

Me too!

Yesterday, an EK flight from Dubai was raided by healthcare workers in BOS because of there being 3 sick passengers on board! ROTFL!

Bring back common sense please: Inquirer for president, flanker2 to the sanatory!

[Flanker2]

By the way, very amazing report from that one witness, wouldn't you agree? "Blood starting to drop from his legs". Although, Het Laatste Nieuws says "bloed liep naar beneden". Flanker2, that's not "dropping", that is "flowing downwards". Wonder if the passenger, coming from a congress in New York, was wearing short pants, making it obvious for that witness to see blood flowing downwards from his legs. Ah no, he was wearing white clothings off course, hence the bloodmarks.

Oh dear,
this is exactly what happens when mass hysteria takes over from common sense.
I notice that quite a few people here too are no longer willing to discuss, nor are they open to reason: they are clearly infected with fear.
Following their own advice, I'd dare to suggest to the moderators that they put those people in quarantine for their own sake as well as the quality of this and other discussions on this forum, because this constant stream of reports aimed at increasing panic has nothing to do with aviation any longer; they have become doomsday advocates highjacking this topic from 5 AM till 23 PM. Pfft.
Some urgent moderation is required while some isolated rest for the autors of these posts might be a healthy measure too, IMHO.

I didn't know that posting headline news from the biggest online news outlet and providing a translation is grounds for moderation.

Obviously, some people are trying very hard to impose censure on this website. Freedom of speech and freedom of press isn't very welcome on luchtzak.be when it's about national security or government companies. We live in a democracy right?

I think that people who advocate for censorship should be banned for their radical views.