Possible strike at Belgocontrol on 25 June

[sean1982]

Right so, because you don't have a proper answer to my argument, you're going down the personal route. Great Job. Go ahead, put me on your ignore list, suits me.

Like I said

They don't even have a proper reason? They are protesting against cost cuttings which are mandatory by the EU.
and what they are saying is that we are the only country doing so. So what? Because the other countries don't comply, we shouldn't comply either?

[teach]

you're going down the personal route.

Let me show you who 'went down the personal route':

But let me guess, you're probably not flying the 25th right? as-long-as-it-doesnt-bother-me-type of guy

We're done.

[sean1982]

Well are you? Cause those 10.000 passengers who will leave on the 25, many of them who will go on their only holiday this year after a year of hard work, will care about a pointless strike??

and yeah well, after all the personal insults I had to take both publicly and by PM (see squelch above for example) I don't really care anymore

[Nevihta]

Sean, you're the egocentric/egoist, you refuse to discuss the problem and stay on the poor people having a week only of holiday blabla... guess what, there are also controllers needing to take an a/c on that day...
So what, we're waiting for an aircraft to crash to start wondering what to do, hiring people, and putting money in what is needed ?
If nothing is done, what is going to happen next is flow restrictions due to staff shortage, and you don't hire ATC in a week, it takes months, years to train, so you'll have flights cancelled, delayed etc... and that's just a small part of the problem, but you obviously don't care about the problem as for you it's just a pointless strike.
I don't want to leave in a country with low cost control, we all know where it's going to and what happened when we forgot lessons from the past...

Once again, Sean, what do you propose as alternative of a threat of strike, Huh, negotiations, what a brilliant idea... and if negotiations don't come do a good end ? what else ?

[sean1982]

You continue to throw the safety card which has nothing to do with this. I'm discussing the problem, you on the other hand are dancing around it.

There is going to HAVE to be a lower cost ATC facility, not only in Belgium but everywhere in Europe. That is what the EU has decided, whether you strike for it or not, so yes that does make the strike pointless!! You threaten the federal government with a strike just because they implented a mandatory EU rule. So tell me why exactly that is not pointless?

So tell me, why do you think exactly why you think Belgium should not comply with this EU ruling? Just because other don't? Which lessons of the past are you talking about exactly?

[Nevihta]

How can't you understand that reducing costs is a threaten to safety ?
Ah yes, you're working for Ryanair and proud of this model...

Whether you like it or not, governments have to apply rules, but have the choice in the way of doing it, and is perhaps not doing it the right way...(you see the point now ?)
So if your point is just that the strike is pointless, I think everyone got it and please let people who have knowledge and other ideas discuss about it..
Lessons of the past ? Uberlingen, Tenerife...

[sean1982]

And while we have LCC models of airlines all around the world that has not impacted safety at all on the contrary, so why would that be opposite for ATC? The only reason why the safety card is drawn is because it suits the typical Union talk.

And whilst I agree that governments in certain cases have choices in this case that is not so. If the EU rules that costs have to be cut by 3,5%, they can't do anything else than cut costs by 3,5%. That does not warrant a strike that directly hits 1000's of innocent passengers.

[Passenger]

Seems there is going to be a strike on Wednesday, probably late afternoon.

edited : at all Belgian airports.

Reason : the irresistable need by the union "leaders" to upset people and to cause damage to tourists and business men.

http://www.hln.be/hln/nl/942/Economie/a ... ruim.dhtml

I know that I'm supposed to give a brief content of non-English content that's posted here. But the above article in Het Laatste Nieuws is not in Dutch but in union language. Sorry folks, I really don't understand that language.

[Passenger]

Strike : today, Wednesday, 18h-20h

After that, "slowly re-opening of airspace".

http://www.hln.be/hln/nl/942/Economie/a ... ruim.dhtml

[AirOpinion]

It's insane... launch a strike for more safety and then closing aerodromes last minute forcing operators to divert, reroute, ... into airspaces/airports they hardly know. Where's the safety in that?

(A1259/14 NOTAMN
Q) EBBU/QSCLC/IV/NBO/E /000/245/5029N00411E107
A) EBBU B) 1406251645 C) 1406251845
E) DUE TO INDUSTRIAL ACTIONS OF ATC STAFF IN BELGIUM FOLLOWING AIR TRAFFIC SERVICES ARE SUSPENDED 1A -EN ROUTE ATC IN EBUR UIR BELOW FL245 1B -EN ROUTE ATC IN EBBU FIR BELOW FL195
2 -FIS IN EBBU FIR
3 -APP/TWR ATC IN EBBR TMA AND CTR
4 -APP/TWR ATC IN EBOS TMA AND CTR
5 -APP/TWR ATC IN EBCI TMA AND CTR
6 -TWR ATC IN EBAW CTR
7 -APP/TWR ATC IN EBLG TMA AND CTR
ATS ARE AVBL IN ELLX TMA UP TO FL135 AND CTR ALL ALLOCATED DEPARTURE SLOTS ARE CANCELLED, EXC ELLX DEPARTURE SLOTS. EMERGENCY FREQ ARE WATCHED.)

(A1260/14 NOTAMN
Q) EBBU/QFALT/IV/NBO/A /000/999/5028N00427E005
A) EBCI B) 1406251645 C) 1406251845
E) DUE TO INDUSTRIAL ACTION OF ATC SERVICES
RWY 07/25 AND TWYS N-S CLSD)

[Flanker2]

Ah well, what's a few hours for a service that is running 24/365.
They have been complaining for a long time now without reverting to industrial action, so let them have it.
I find that the Belgian ATCO's strike much less compared to Atco's in other countries in Europe, so I think that people have very little to complain about.

These are people who are paid relatively little if you look at the responsibilites and stress they need to live with. Mistakes are not allowed and they'll probably hear from their boss if they as much as get close to making one. It's not the worst job in the world, but it's far from the best if you ask me.

[Lysexpat]

Playing the devils advocate: why is an ATCO who is paid 4000€ less safe the the one who is paid 5000€?

[Flanker2]

If you make a mistake out there, it's jail time, a lot of dead people on your mind, etc... So if you carry that kind of liabilities as part of your job, you should at least be rewarded as decently as possible instead of being paid the same salary that you can get working at Deloitte, where the greatest risk is financial loss.
5000 euro is still more than 4000, it means one less thing to worry about.
In the great scheme of things, if you ask me 4000 euro's is peanuts in today's currency.
You still have to work many many years on that salary to pay your house off and you need to keep some aside just in case you get fired... because if you do, it's not like being an ATCO is very useful on a resume...

[AirOpinion]

Well it does have a big impact for a 24/365 operation actually. Just some things I think about:
- rerouting due to ATC strike france:for flights from/to the south +/- 6000 euro per flight extra costs already.
For a flight that was in the air before the strike was there is a diversion from EBBR: handling costs, fueling costs, extra overflight costs, crewing problems for next days operations, crews going overtime, who knows hotel accomodation, ...

They should have chosen a punctuality action. Where they reduce the traffic to the level that they think is justified for a safe operation. That would have been justified and would only result in fair arrival slots into/out of Belgium.

[Passenger]

There is no justification to damage individual tourists when there is no real danger for your job.

Actually, the reason the ACV union gives is so stupid that even the Belgian socialist union, known for its extreme strike-willingness, refuses to join them.

Those who defend this strike clearly don't work in aviation or the general tourism business.

[Elpiloto]

I can understand that the people from Belgocontrol have had enough from, political, leaders, I understand that but you have to understand also that this does more economical damage than serve it's purpose..

It's those leaders you have to try to hit and not the passengers and the cargo coming in and out of Belgium.
By doing this we will only make thing, economically, worse!!

There is a fundamental right to strike and I believe you should be able to do that but I think, in this case, it doesn't reach it's goal.
I believe you should only go on strike when all other actions have been depleted!

I hope they really reorganize Belgocontrol, take the political placed idiots out and put some good people in place because we need those guys do guide us down....
We spend so many euro's on bullshit, maybe it would be better to invest some of it in Belgocontrol and keep our safe airspace running!!

And for us pilots, well..... It's just an other day/night on the job with unforeseen/foreseen things going on...

Hoping everybody has safe flight and good landings!!!

[woutertheboy]

Hello,

First flight are slowly starting to depart again, however no arrivals yet. En route services were kept availible at all times for a selected amount of flights.

Greetings,

[tolipanebas]

First flight are slowly starting to depart again.

That is mainly for full service airlines like Brussels Airlines which decided to sit it out and fly out later, even overnight where this is possible, by relying in their contingency plans in case they end up in another wave of the strike upon arrival back in BRU.
Others -despite claiming to have massively improved- decided to simply cancel all of their flying for the rest of the evening and thus left their booked passengers stranded, effectively making their passengers lose their well deserved only holiday after a full year of hard work like some here have said, rather than simply have them arrive at it a few hours late.

Greatly improved services indeed.

[sean1982]

In total only 15% of pur flight were cancelled and the only reason why 2 of our 4 late wave flights were cancelled is because all crew were either flying or out of hours from the day before.
And as for "full service" your main partner and money provider LH also cancelled their evening waves.

[tolipanebas]

Hundreds of people were literally left stranded and saw their hard deserved summer holiday fall completely in the water as their airline didn't offer them a realistic alternative in the form of a flight a couple of hours later, once the strike would be over.

Literally tens of them were begging service desks of other airlines flying on the same routes to take them on their flights operating overnight so they could still save most of their planned holidays.

Will definitely be a nice episode in the new upcoming series of 'Het leven zoals het is, luchthaven' on VRT.