Belgian Defence to replace its A330 by an A321

[Boavida]

First pictures of the freshly painted BAF A321. And it has an all-new livery when compared to the A330 and other planes of the BAF 'white fleet'.







More: https://www.facebook.com/EastMidlandsAi ... tos_stream

I think it looks a lot better and much more classy than the old livery. Question: will the other planes (Embraer, Falcon) also get this new look?

[stratofreighter]

The Airbus A321 is now looking like THIS:
http://www.skyliner-aviation.de/viewpho ... picid=8737

Photo by: Andy Martin / AirTeamImages (Date: 23.02.2014)
Airline: HiFly [EI-FDP / CS-TRJ]
Type: Airbus A321-200
Airport: United Kingdom Derby ( East Midlands ) (EMA)

Comment: Der von HiFly für die Luftwaffe Belgiens betriebene A330-300 wird in Kürze durch diesen A321-200 ersetzt.
/
The A330-300, operated by HiFly on behalf of the Belgian Air Force, will be shortly replaced by this A321-200.

[Mavke]

HHmm .. almost OO-TFA lookalike ....

[flieger]

Quite ok with the colours on this bird.
The old one, the A330 was a bit too extravagant...

However, a Boeing 757 would have done the job too, WITH transcontinental capability, whereas the A321 will not cross the ocean without a stopover... Also, the 757 is already used by NATO partners, and other airforces such as the US, New-Zealand,...

But ok, this is all linked with the choice to work with HiFly of course...

[teddybAIR]

...and simply low costs.

The fact that other NATO parthers fly with B757 does not offer an advantage to Belgium or does it? Do you see synergies? cost reductions? Easier access to training facilities?

An A380 would be nice, but "would be nice" is simply not a good decision criterion. Making a "cahier de charge" on what capability you expect from your fleet and then choosing the most economical option that balances risks & rewards. That is what I expect a professional fleet manager to do. And I'm sure that commonality with other air forces has been reviewed as a criterion, but given that the A/C is leased, was simply disregarded or given a very low importance score.

[flieger]

@teddybAir:
I didn't necessarily mean any commonalities with other NATO members, I meant it is proven that the 757 is a good airframe for this. Besides it can be fitted with a cargo door, which I don't think is already the case on any A321 as an aftermarket option.
Plus then the intercontinental capability.
Also, I don't think that 757's come that expensive in lease...

[Lenoest]

Maybe the right moment to rephrase my earlier statement : I am sure that some airlines have propose B757 to the tender from the government, but were not selected. This is the minister decision and we can only trust that the choice was based on solid arguments in the fair intrest of the nation.

[Magpies10]

Here's the photo when it was rolled out of the hanger at EMA http://www.flickr.com/photos/55639045@N03/12732160324/

[Magpies10]

http://www.flickr.com/photos/55639045@N03/12732160324/

[regi]

Hm hm, I cannot understand why Belgium didn't buy a cheap Tu-204

[flieger]

@regi Tu204 to save Belgium from going to waste in bricks and rubble? haha, you naughty guy...

[delibec]

somebody knows when it will come over to Brussels ?

[teddybAIR]

@teddybAir:
I didn't necessarily mean any commonalities with other NATO members, I meant it is proven that the 757 is a good airframe for this. Besides it can be fitted with a cargo door, which I don't think is already the case on any A321 as an aftermarket option.
Plus then the intercontinental capability.
Also, I don't think that 757's come that expensive in lease...

1) what would you use that cargo door for? We have the C-130's and in the future the A400M's. And aftermarket: i don't think it's a purchase (not sure though), so the residual value is not to the lessee, but rather to the lessor
2) intercontinental capability: when do we need non-stop intercontinental capability? dropping of VIPS can be done in a falcon 900, and fuel stops for disaster relief flights are no show stopper. On the contrary: they might even be very probable as I can imagine disaster relief flights to be heavy on payload and therefore fuel limited
3) on how many occasions was the A330 used for the transport of more than 220 men? I believe 220 is the regulatory limit for the A321.

[Ecam]

1) what would you use that cargo door for? We have the C-130's and in the future the A400M's. And aftermarket: i don't think it's a purchase (not sure though), so the residual value is not to the lessee, but rather to the lessor
2) intercontinental capability: when do we need non-stop intercontinental capability? dropping of VIPS can be done in a falcon 900, and fuel stops for disaster relief flights are no show stopper. On the contrary: they might even be very probable as I can imagine disaster relief flights to be heavy on payload and therefore fuel limited
3) on how many occasions was the A330 used for the transport of more than 220 men? I believe 220 is the regulatory limit for the A321.

1) a cargo door for bulky loads maybe ? Cargo on a A320 is limited to the height of the LD3-45, which is 109 cm high. Underfloor cargo doors are less than a 1.9m wide. Enough for the common holiday suitcases and strollers, but for a flexible military transport ?
Ah yes, the C-130 ...Don't count on a C-130 these days to get somewhere on time. The slogan "anytime, anywhere" is more like “anywhere, sometime” these days. And the first A400M is scheduled to arrive in 5 years time only.
2) why not take an intercontinental aircraft i.s.o. one that isn't if you have to replace an aircraft ? Shurely because the A321 leasing fee is cheaper. An intercontinental aircraft is cheaper though to operate on long haul missions, even cheaper than a C-130.
For official visits the F900 is too small (journos ...). The ERJ's are too small for comfort as well for long range multi hop missions. The excellencies are keen on comfort, often getting to their business right after landing on the destination AP.
I remember one of our ministers some time before the A330 that sent a ERJ empty to The Soudan for a few internal flights, and took an A310 with less than 30 passengers to get himself and his delegation to Khartoum. The A310 returned empty to Brussels, only for a week later to make the same trip back (yes, empty) to pick up the passengers again, with the ERJ returning home … empty.
The A.321-200 has a max pax US transcontinental range, but only when additional fuel tanks are installed in the rear cargo hold again limiting the cargo capacity.
3) Indeed, how many times was the A310 used with a full passenger load (200) ?

I would agree with flieger that a B757 would have been a better choice.

[teddybAIR]

ok.

1) you say the C-130's are slow. How many times is that speed you value so much really critical? And you refer to the C-130's as slow, but are they really? besides: we have them anyway, so the cargo capacity is there. A concorde would get it there even faster. So what, in the end, you and me have to pay the bill and I'm glad we don't lease an aircraft based on what luchtzak members like to photograph
2) well, the problem there is not the material, cause he could have cruised around the country in the A310. The problem is that minster ethic and code of conduct, because I don't see why he would behave differently with an A310 as opposed to a B757
3) I don't know, that was the question

[b-west]

I've talked to a few of the crew members on the A330. They told me that even though pax wise the aircraft usually has quite loads, it has occurred a few times already that they flew with every seat taken. Also, the cargo is quite often completely filled. If they had a say in it, they would've opted to keep the A330, or at least a 757.

[Atco EBBR]

ok.

1) you say the C-130's are slow. How many times is that speed you value so much really critical? And you refer to the C-130's as slow, but are they really? besides: we have them anyway, so the cargo capacity is there. A concorde would get it there even faster. So what, in the end, you and me have to pay the bill and I'm glad we don't lease an aircraft based on what luchtzak members like to photograph

The problem with the C130's is not that they're slow, but they are becoming increasingly unreliable... CH03 and CH07 are regular guests at the engine test platform and they often have to come back due to technical...

[Ecam]

ok.

1) you say the C-130's are slow. How many times is that speed you value so much really critical? And you refer to the C-130's as slow, but are they really? besides: we have them anyway, so the cargo capacity is there. A concorde would get it there even faster. So what, in the end, you and me have to pay the bill and I'm glad we don't lease an aircraft based on what luchtzak members like to photograph
2) well, the problem there is not the material, cause he could have cruised around the country in the A310. The problem is that minster ethic and code of conduct, because I don't see why he would behave differently with an A310 as opposed to a B757
3) I don't know, that was the question

1) Where do I mention that the C-130 is slow, and that 'I' value speed as being critical.
The real problem is their poor reliability these days, and it won't get any better. It's not uncommon nowadays that a C-130 that is dispatched to repair another C-130, also brakes down en route, if it manages to depart Melsbroek as planned without technical issues. Rumour has it that the French are having the same troubles with their Transalls. However they are already receiving the A400M.
The disadvantage of their slower speed is that it makes them less economical to operate on long range. Not really critical for the military, but something to be taken into account these days.
3) to answer it: ones or twice a year, and then not even for operational use but for PR/educational purposes.

Something that came to mind is the influence the BAF Airbus pilots may have had in the decision to go for an A321. I expect it being more interesting to have an A320 series license than one for B757 to get a job as pilot with an airline in Europe, after their career in the military.

[Kapitein]

somebody knows when it will come over to Brussels ?

Arrived Friday evening in BRU, standing with LHT for the moment

[b-west]

I took a few pics of the A321. The A330 was also towed to the LH technics hangar
https://plus.google.com/113295547871120 ... chPHWxghZB


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