Ryanair at Brussels Airport

[teddybAIR]

ok, Lysexpat...what you're saying is that you wouldn't value the 25' turnaround...then you'll be happy to learn that I've got a 40' turnaround at standard pricing for you, wouldn't you? What I'm saying is: don't expect me to deliver a 25' turnaround at the same pricelevel as a 40' turnaround. If you do expect me to do so, then that's a clear indication that you don't value the 15' that you win and hence I will not deliver them to you free of charge.

PS: haven't used fuel prices anywhere in that calculation, but simply figures that come straight from the FY2013 annual report. And since it are topline figures, they don't account for costs such as fuel.

[crew1990]

Sorry Crosswind but in my personal experience the social life whipe working for ryanair is not bad at all. I know when i can do something with friends or familie a long time in advance. I can even say which exact dates i will be working for the next couple of years as long as nothing chages. (like new base or captain upgrade)
It wont be in every base like this when you work 5-3 iso 5-4 in summer and dont have good connections back home. But the people i know in such bases have their social live where they work.

The flight time are nice and you can plan in advance, this is true and this is one thing wich was great but when you start, Ryanair assigne you a base. In my case I was in BGY so indeed it was nice as there where 3 flight a day to CRL. But what do you do for people who are base somewhere where there is no connection to go home or not daily? Then when you are 1 year in your base you can apply for a transfer. If your initial base is Tenerife, Gran Canaria, Porto, you will got a transfer very easily, but if you are base in BGY, CRL or STN, those base a prison for cabin crew, it very hard to come out of those base because there are very short of cabin crew there.

[teddybAIR]

and lysexpat,

don't forget that LCC aircraft turn around about 6 times a day, so compared to a 40' turnaround you do win sufficient time each day to squeeze in that 1 whole (not average) extra flight a day. By the way, that's the very essence of the LCC model: higher productivity level of the core assets...and I'm sorry to say, but delivering that in function of your business model has value.

Until now, they have succeeded at squeezing their suppliers because they operate from small airports who depend on them. All I'm saying is that if I was managing an established handler at an airport that has a diversified customer portfolio, I would charge you for the value I'm convinced I deliver you.

A supplementary reason why I would do that is because if I deliver you 25' without price premium, then guess what all my other customers will be asking at the end of their current contracts...for free! So no thanks, I'm not playing ball!

[crew1990]

But how is it possible to do a 25 minute turnaround in Brussels, I was looking yesterday at a Ryanair plane landing yesterday. The plane landed on the runways in the middle, I don t know the name. It took practicaly 7 minutute to got to his stand on the other side of the apron. So 14 mintute total of taxiing!

[teddybAIR]

I guess that turnaround times is the time between blocks-on and blocks-off, hence no taxi time included. Can anyone confirm?

[Lysexpat]

But how is it possible to do a 25 minute turnaround in Brussels, I was looking yesterday at a Ryanair plane landing yesterday. The plane landed on the runways in the middle, I don t know the name. It took practicaly 7 minutute to got to his stand on the other side of the apron. So 14 mintute total of taxiing!

Turnaround is blocks-on/blocks off!

[crew1990]

Well it makes more sense then

[tolipanebas]

It seems to me that the 'random' occupancy quotes ryanair shared with the press on their first day of operations from BRU, were in fact carefully selected to give a very favourable impression, something which shouldn't surprise us really, as that's how things are done everywhere, but it should signal us to remain cautious when making predictions for the future as they may be based on facts and figures not really reflecting the full picture and thus match reality.

A 62% occupancy rate isn't bad, but it certainly isn't spectacular either: it's just mediocre and it seems to be in line with what others are doing at BRU too. This reflects the reality that ryanair is not an expection to the rule that when there's overcapacy, everybody sufffers from it and they most probably bet on some competitors pulling out of their routes. The interesting thing is, the opposite seems to be happening.

It would be nice if we could compare the loadfactors of all ailines competing with FR on their new routes.
Does anybody has access to these numbers?

You do not have to take my word for it, but the combined load factor of SN on LIS, BCN and FCO (the 3 routes where they competed directly on with FR yesterday) was over 70%.

Today it's even higher BTW as Friday is a top day.

[teddybAIR]

that would suggest that FR almost 100% attracted a new segment instead of cannibalising SN

[Lysexpat]

It would be nice if we could compare the loadfactors of all ailines competing with FR on their new routes.
Does anybody has access to these numbers?

You do not have to take my word for it, but the combined load factor of SN on LIS, BCN and FCO (the 3 routes where they competed directly with FR on yesterday) was over 70%.

Today as we'll BTW...

This very good news!
It means Fr is attracting new passengers.
So the airport will grow and more people ar able to fly at even cheaper prices.
Of course it is the start of the school holidays and the high loadfactors will have to be confirmed over the comming weeks.

[crew1990]

What would be intersting actually would be to see the loadfactor of those route from CRL...

I don t think there will be many pax wich will switch from SN to FR, because most of the SN pax on those routes are connecting pax with a long haul flight or business man travelling within EUrope for there work, but in most of the case their companies have an agreement with SN or it can be some tourist doing a city trip, for the one witch booked a package it will be SN because of the contract with the TO, Thomas Cook for example.

The only PAX that SN will lose are the one one travelling on their own for less than a week.
For the PAX travelleling with a suitcase for a week including the Saturday night, SN will be pratically always more interesting than Ryanair and if not I don t think the price will be so highter than FR

[Lysexpat]

What would be intersting actually would be to see the loadfactor of those route from CRL...

A very good question, where is Sean when you need him?

[Inquirer]

That,
or they are taking from others, like Alitalia or TAP?
For all the talk about Ryanair and Brussels airlines on this forum, we shouldn't forget the biggest airlines on Rome and Lisbon are in fact nor Irish or Belgian, but Italian and Portuguese!
Or it could be they are seeing their own passengers shifting massively from CRL/EIN to BRU, in which case it's really bad news for CRL and EIN.
Or as others have said, them handing out tickets at loss making launch pricing has attracted interest, but sadly not from the group from which it should come: current passengers flying with competitors.

You'd really need to see where the passengers come from to say anything meaningful, other than that Ryanair seemingly isn't doung such a walk-over start at BRU than some thought they would, not the least maybe themselves, hence their repeated non-telling conferencing with the press in BRU or their continued promotional fares for flights in March even or their spinning of their load factors yesterday?
What is a guarantee is that they won't tell us, so we'll have to derive it from ever more signs like these mentioned above (and others over the coming weeks).

[crew1990]

Anyway, it s not on one day operation that we will be abble to make some conclusion, this is also like some other said a special as it s the start of the holidays. So all the flight, Ryanair of SN are almost full. After the hloiday there will be less passenger and will see which company they choose.

[SN539]

I totally agree with CRew 1990. There were a lot of discussions of the future competition between SN and FR, but I think the real challenge on destinations like BCN, FCO or VCE/TSF will be between Vueling and Ryanair. If we look at what happened a few months ago, it is obvious that Ryanair decided (a bit in a hurry ...) to come in Brussels just after the announcement of new routes from BRU by Vueling.

[Sean_DM]

What would be intersting actually would be to see the loadfactor of those route from CRL...

A very good question, where is Sean when you need him?

Don't know about the loadfactors in CRL as I am busy helping setting up a new base.
All figures in BRU are on target or exceeding expectations. Rapid growth is to be expected

[Inquirer]

Indeed!

I always found that Ryanair rushed into BRU in shear panic after vueling announced their plans, copy pasting all of their routes AND outdoing them in frequencies even just to make a point.
It may proof to be a bit too ambitious and hurting more themselves than the others.

In fact, It may have been a far better idea to look for new destinations other than just to double already existing ones from BRU, you know.

Compare it to easyjet's reaction.
You can call them sleeping and stupid... Or confident and knowing where they are heading for.

[b720]

I agree, Vueling is the target of FR's expansion into BRU. However, at the end of the day it is the traveler, and
all those using BRU who are the winners. I think that had FR launched GVA, MXP or LIN, UK, etc.. might have been painful for SN. These are money making routes for SN.

[crew1990]

But in the mean time, EZY is flying to MXP and GVA, and even if there is competition, SN still have 7 flights daily to GVA all operated with A320 and A319 (maybe it comes the time to introduce the A321) and 6 daily flight to Milan area. So it show that even with a low cost competition, SN manage to make a lot of money on some route.

[b720]

Indeed crew, however if u check fares on EASY to GVA, they are often as if not more expensive than those of SN. Besides SN, as you said, offer 7 flights a day.. and SN introduced their fantastic B.Pass which I have personally used twice.. resulting in a guaranteed seat on any SN flight in B.light - if seats available- return flight ends up costing about EUR110 plus 1500 miles return!! Easy can;'t beat that, specially if one books last minute, which the pass allows.. As for Milan, Easy flies to MXP, while SN to both.. The LIN flights are much higher yielding. SN makes a good profit on those flights. I think that SN must consider introducing those passes on B.FLEX and B.Business flights.. This will generate a handsome regular, pre - paid income..