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Passenger wrote:Just a question, based upon Wiki and Flightpedia facts:
Birmingham runway: 3.050m
Stansted runway: 3.048m
Flight distance Birmingham-Stansted : 165 kms
Flight distance Stansted-Porto : 1.367 kms
Hence my question : is it not possible for a fully loaded 737-800 to take enough fuel onboard in Birmingham to fly Birmingham-Stansted-Porto?
It has nothing to do with the runway length my dear passenger. It is useless to tell you what the limitation is, because you would not believe it.
Euh, I don't think it's up to you to know - let alone to decide - if I will or will not believe your story. But actually, I didn't say it had to do with runway length. I just gave some Wiki-facts, and I then asked one simple question: is it possible for a fully loaded 737-800 to fuel up at Birmingham and fly Birmingham-Stansted-Porto?
Fact is that this fuel story stinks. Or better: this whole story stinks.
So I better don't ask if the fairytale at Stansted had something to do with the night curfew at Porto...
Anything else you want to do besides proving that you have no operational knowledge of aviation and you're just here to pollute this perfectly civilised topic till you came along? Or is this your way of "showing respect" for SN again?
PS: just like CRL, OPO has no curfew for based airplanes .... Oops, wrong again
fcw wrote:
CNC, there are airports where fuelers hand over the receipt via a stick and a cockpit window, there are even airports where no receipt is handed over to the crew, so fueling with doors closed is perfectly possible.
last time i was at STN fueling with pax on board was forbidden with doors closed so stairs had to stay on position
sean1982 wrote:I think it is allowed but only with ALL doors closed and slides armed and a cabin crew member at every door.
its possible, my last visit was a remote stand which might have different rules then the stands at the terminal.
curious to see the report of this incident
sean1982 wrote:Anything else you want to do besides proving that you have no operational knowledge of aviation and you're just here to pollute this perfectly civilised topic till you came along? Or is this your way of "showing respect" for SN again?
PS: just like CRL, OPO has no curfew for based airplanes .... Oops, wrong again
I have never said nor suggested that I had operational (professional) experience - hence my questions: "can a 737-800 fly 165 kms + 1.500 kms?" and "had it something to do with the night curfew at Porto"?
I've spent quite some time in airports and in aircraft in my previous life (even worked at a bush airport) and I've read enough "operational reports" from airlines about 261/2004 to know that something stinks here. This flight was delayed from 14th February, 20h25 p.m. (ETD) till 15th February, 08. a.m. (dep). Not "weather related", but own cause (a failure by a private fuel supplier is not force majeure). But congratulations to Ryanair: they've managed not to offer the passengers a hotel, meals and drinks. Apart from the meal voucher that is, given at 04h00 a.m. and to be used in a secluded part of the airport without bar open (listen to the onboard announcement by the policeman in the Youtube video: "at least, you can stretch your legs there").
I am away without Internet for little more than one week, and see what happens!
Allow me just one remark about the modified title of a topic: there is no bias at all in naming the airline where an incident occurs; on the contrary, it is useful information. It is not pro or against FR, or SN, or any other airline, it is only clear and objective information. On numerous cases, SN has been named in incidents.
The Youtube video from Joao Pinheiro has reached 1.280.000 hits now. There was some discission here about plain facts, like: was the airconditioning on? Were drinks, snacks and/or meal vouchers given to the passengers? Who called the police? The answers are all in the Youtube movie. As some may not have had enough time to watch the Youtube video it in full, I’ve copy/pasted the text quotes and I have added just a few time remarks. Remarks from video maker Joao Pinheiro are marked as “…” here under:
xx.xx : “Updates are given every 15 minutes with exactly the same details”
22h25 : “the aircraft had to stop for refueling in Birmingham”
23h45 : “passengers are told to leave Gate 54 and go to Gate 46 to embark”
00h15 : “boarding”
01h00 : “passengers ask for food, water and airconditioning”
01.h00 : “Denied”
01h25 : “Passengers asked why the delay. The crew tells passengers the plane is waiting to be refueled. WTF?! Again?!”
xx.xx : PA announcement: we have now contacted our handling agent so they can open the arrivals door. Once they’ve done that you will be free to leave the aircraft , take your hand luggage and go the the Arrivals.
03h00 : “Passengers still on board. No food. No water. No Fuel. No asnwer. No handling agent ever came.”
03h00 : “Airport closed. Passengers are not allowed to get off the plane.”
03h15 : “Passengers become fed up and decide to call the police to defend their right to leave the aircraft”
xx.xx : no reaction to passenger’s calls for assistance. One English passenger says to another one: What did the police tell you? Have you explained that the airline is constantly lying to us?
03h15 : passengers address a flight attendant, standing at the open door: people are asking for your help, are you a flight attendant? Reply from the passenger on Youtube: “oh my God, did you hear that? He said “my shift is over”
03h25 : “They keep us on the aircraft without the airconditioning on, they don’t give us answers, all they do is lie to us”
03h25 : “Police arrives”
03h30 : policeman addresses the passengers hat they will force entrance into the airport, into a secluded area. Policeman: 'with toilets but unfortunately no bar facilities are open now, but at least you can stretch your legs there'.
03h45 : "Passengers are allowed to leave the aircraft"
03h50 : police opens an emergency exit
xx.xx : passengers wait at Gate46: most of them standing at the empty counter – few of them seating. One passengers tells the guy filming the event: we’ve only got off the plane after we’ve called the police 50 times.
xx.xx : “Once inside Ryanair attendants explain that the flight will leave at 06 a.m. and passengers will be notified via departure board and PA system”
xx.xx : "Neither occured. So some passengers boarded at 06.00 a.m. and only left at 08h30. Whilst other passengers rescheduled where they were mistreated by the Ryanair manager" (end of quote Joao Pinheiro)
And because someone makes a video and puts it on YouTube its true?
Airconditioning was on, contrary to what he says.
Cabin crew was available in the aircraft all the time, contrary to what he says
Flight crew activly tried to organise disembarkation if the passengers, contrary to what he says
Police was called by the crew, contrary to what he says
Food and drink vouchers we're allready provided before the boarding, what he never says
All passengers where compensated according to EU law, something he never says
If I put that in a video are you going to break it down in this post as well? Or is this your way of showing respect to SN again?
Last edited by sean1982 on 25 Feb 2014, 08:05, edited 1 time in total.
sean1982 wrote:Btw moderators, you are not promoting unbiased conversations with your choice of titles here. This is NOWHERE near being "held hostage"
Yes, by now we all know you do not agree with the title chosen by the moderators; you have told us at least 5 times in this topic and opened up 2 seperate topics about it (all of which rightfully got deleted).
Just a question to you: what exactly do you not understand about respecting the forum rules, something you've explicitly agreed to when signing up for this forum?
And then to say you've been telling people every other day: 'Hey, it's all in our rules, just read them carefully and follow them strictly", whenever somebody complains about yet another hidden fee your airline is notorious for, to the point it is Europe's highes fee airline even.
If you do not see it as a major problem that passengers were deliberately kept onboard overnight on a delayed plane at your airline's biggest UK base, rather than put up in a comfortable hotel like they should, then your airline's new and customer friendlier approach still isn't much to write home about, and so the moderating team is right on with this thread title.
You, are of course free to leave if you don't like it, as per forum rules.
Seriously, now, here are the explanations of Swissport :
Swissport said: “Due to extreme weather the inbound flight from Porto was initially diverted to East Midlands and arrived some 3 hours later at Stansted to collect the passengers for the flight to Porto.
“The flight was loaded, but fuelling was not available. This caused the delay. Swissport staff were under extreme pressure dealing with an unprecedented level of flights and whilst we accept we should have unloaded the passengers sooner we simply had no one available to unload when contacted by the captain.”
“Swissport regret any delay to passengers and to Ryanair. However, in extreme circumstances, our staff worked tirelessly to ensure that diverted flights were dealt with as soon as possible."
sean1982 wrote:Btw moderators, you are not promoting unbiased conversations with your choice of titles here. This is NOWHERE near being "held hostage"
Yes, by now we all know you do not agree with the title chosen by the moderators; you have told us at least 5 times in this topic and opened up 2 seperate topics about it (all of which rightfully got deleted).
Just a question to you: what exactly do you not understand about respecting the forum rules, something you've explicitly agreed to when signing up for this forum?
And then to say you've been telling people every other day: 'Hey, it's all in our rules, just read them carefully and follow them strictly", whenever somebody complains about yet another hidden fee your airline is notorious for, to the point it is Europe's highes fee airline even.
If you do not see it as a major problem that passengers were deliberately kept onboard overnight on a delayed plane at your airline's biggest UK base, rather than put up in a comfortable hotel like they should, then your airline's new and customer friendlier approach still isn't much to write home about, and so the moderating team is right on with this thread title.
You, are of course free to leave if you don't like it, as per forum rules.
3hrs and 35 mins is not what I would call a night. Dumping people in a basement for a day or bombarding with hours of delays and leased airplanes because you cannot keep your long haul airplanes together is also not really an example of good customer service. You should here what your crew have to say about that in the pitchers. Your superior tone is laughable considering your belgian competitors are running their airlines 10 times better!
sean1982 wrote:
3hrs and 35 mins is not what I would call a night.
20h25 : Departure time
23h45 : First boarding
03h50 : Deboarding
06h00 : Second boarding
08h30 : Take Off
Allow me to disagree, as per forum rule d (I'm entitled to my own opinion): th above time schedule seems to be more then just 3h 35 min delay, and it even looks more to a one night delay without hotel offered.
Strange, you're previous post the boarding was 00h15? You're timings change by the hour?
These timings are given by 1 passenger btw, which is to be taken with a full barrel of salt. Where are the official timings?
Swissport takes full responsibility for this cock-up btw
sean1982 wrote:
3hrs and 35 mins is not what I would call a night. Dumping people in a basement for a day or bombarding with hours of delays and leased airplanes because you cannot keep your long haul airplanes together is also not really an example of good customer service. You should here what your crew have to say about that in the pitchers. Your superior tone is laughable considering your belgian competitors are running their airlines 10 times better!
I don't see what SN leasing airplanes to help pax has to with the title of this thread. No clue at all!!!
sean1982 wrote:
3hrs and 35 mins is not what I would call a night. Dumping people in a basement for a day or bombarding with hours of delays and leased airplanes because you cannot keep your long haul airplanes together is also not really an example of good customer service. You should here what your crew have to say about that in the pitchers. Your superior tone is laughable considering your belgian competitors are running their airlines 10 times better!
I don't see what SN leasing airplanes to help pax has to with the title of this thread. No clue at all!!!
Well it´s very simple, Sean doesn t have anything interesting anymore to say so he does what he does the best, a stupid comparaition between SN and FR, this is the way he think he is superior. Then he will be surprised that there will be a clean up once again and will blam the moderator to be pro-SN and anti-FR.
sean1982 wrote:Strange, you're previous post the boarding was 00h15? You're timings change by the hour?
Indeed, I'm so sorry. I've mixed up the announcement "change of gate" with "boarding". It took indeed half an hour extra before they boarded for the no take off. But then, honnestly, this half an hour standing at tge gate or sitting in the aircraft waiting for no water and no food, isn't that much relevant, compared to the 13 hours between 19h25 (ETD) and 08h30 (DEP), won't you think so?
sean1982 wrote:These timings are given by 1 passenger btw, which is to be taken with a full barrel of salt.
Indeed: the Youtube is "source just one passenger". But then, quite some other press reports came afterwards with additional info (not seen in the Youtube). Full barrel of salt? Joao Pinheiro supported his time schedule with onboard pictures and video footage. I therefore have little to no doubt that he manipulated the coverage. Iif you look at the Youtube again, you will notice that many many other passengers complained loudly about lack of service, lack of information, lack of reaction from the crew (the reply from a crew member "my shift is over" is not from Joao Pinheiro, btw).
sean1982 wrote:Where are the official timings?
Indeed, good question, I'm looking forward to it also. I read the British State Gazette (and the Irish version off course) every day since 14th February, but not one single official notice about this. Therefore, untill that happens, I believe Joao Pinheiro and his fellow victims.
sean1982 wrote:Swissport takes full responsibility for this cock-up btw
So what? Passengers don't have a contract / agreement with the handling agent or fuel supplier or airport duty manager: passengers have a contract with the airline. Ryanair that is.
Swissport can't even take up "full responsability" (whatever that is) because the events would not have turned into this nightmare (for the passengers) when the aircraft had enough fuel to go on hold long enough - predictable because of the weather forecast, necessary because other aircraft from Heathrow and Gatwick diverted to Stansted. That's not my invention and I don't need to have OPS experience for that: I read it in the first posts here.
And meanhile, the Youtube teller stands at 1.375.000...
Passenger wrote: And meanhile, the Youtube teller stands at 1.375.000...
That's not really an indication of the accuracy of the facts either
Rather, it's the human urge to sensation.
Meanwhile, can't we just agree on the fact that the Ryanair could have handled the situation better by informing the passengers what was going on? Leaving aside who is responsible, I think the airline is obliged to inform its passengers about the situation, even if they don't know themselves when a solution will be available.
And to make things clear (before being branded as favouring one airline over the other), I would say the same thing if this would have happened with Brussels Airlines, KLM, Jetairfly or any other airline.
And maybe some members don't have to take everything personal or others don't have to be enjoyed about every small thing that goes wrong with one airline or another.
It is really becoming annoying to see that 1 topic out of 2 is becoming a fight between the same few members...
regardless of what, who, when, and where?? and regardless on who is telling the truth..This situation would NEVER have happened on airlines such as LX, LH, and probably SN.
