2014 Charleroi airport (CRL/EBCI) latest news

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Inquirer
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Re: 2014 Charleroi airport (CRL/EBCI) latest news

Post by Inquirer »

sean1982 wrote:Inquirer, the bottom line is still to offer the cheapest fare in europe, but to attract extra passengers who would previously find FR to be to inconvenient. I for one am very curious to see what they will roll out around april-may when they roll out their corporate packages.
I admit I am too, because there is only so much one can add to a basic point-to-point product: reserved seating, ticket flexibility and priority screening are likely going to be part of it and it can all be found on easyjet already today, but other than that, it becomes much harder to upgrade any further without being a completely different kind of company: vueling and germanwings for instance sell connectivity through some of their bases to augment the number of flight options available to their customers and I bet easyjet is considering that too as they target corporate flyers, but such a thing does come at a certain cost of course, a cost which ultimately is carried by ALL passengers, not just those who make use of it, so you can only get away with it if your main customer base isn't extremely price sensitive either.

This is exactly why I have stated from the start ryanair should better introduce a completely new brand in order to segregate their new operations at premium airports from their current product at second tier airports, as these are 2 very different customer bases.

The fact they don't do so will somehow limit their commercial possibilities, unless they are not so sure they are going to remain mostly the kind of airline they are today after all and are in fact considering to slowly but steadily pull out of the ultra-low cost segment and thus the secondary airports like CRL for instance, in which case a seperated brand isn't needed indeed as the strong ryanair brand can then be carried over on the new product.

Regardless, I can very much understand why SAVE isn't too eager to invest any further in CRL until they have a clearer sight on its long term future: there are just too many vital questions unanswered at present and I doubt even ryanair itself can answer them in full right now because all this seems to be a little bit too much of a 'me too' strategy rolled out in reaction to a heavily changed market environment which they suddenly got caught in, much to their own surprise.

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Re: 2014 Charleroi airport (CRL/EBCI) latest news

Post by Acid-drop »

Ok so let's recap.
After many years of double digit growth, they want to cancel everything because of a _potential_ one year slowdown ?
(Ryanair confirmed they would continue to grow in CRL in 2015)
(We don't know how pax will react with the price increase when flying from BRU)
Right...
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Re: 2014 Charleroi airport (CRL/EBCI) latest news

Post by sn26567 »

Inquirer wrote:there is only so much one can add to a basic point-to-point product: reserved seating, ticket flexibility and priority screening are likely going to be part of it ...
Connections were a point that MOL mentioned yesterday in reply to a question. He said that already now many passengers make connections at CRL (one of the largest bases, which is a need to be able to offer connections), but they have to go through the check in procedure again, with no guaranteed connection. MOL mentioned that, for the time being, this was not going to change. But let's wait and see what the future business package will offer when it is disclosed in April.
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Re: 2014 Charleroi airport (CRL/EBCI) latest news

Post by Acid-drop »

The mgmt confirmed that SAVE have made a return of 50% of their investment in only 4 years.
And they confirmed CRL will continue the investments, because they stronly beleive that the airport will continue to grow.
In this story, its SAVE that look like a clown.... Not exactly a good marketing communication... But do they care...
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Flanker2
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Re: 2014 Charleroi airport (CRL/EBCI) latest news

Post by Flanker2 »

Inquirer wrote:
sean1982 wrote:Inquirer, the bottom line is still to offer the cheapest fare in europe, but to attract extra passengers who would previously find FR to be to inconvenient. I for one am very curious to see what they will roll out around april-may when they roll out their corporate packages.
I admit I am too, because there is only so much one can add to a basic point-to-point product: reserved seating, ticket flexibility and priority screening are likely going to be part of it and it can all be found on easyjet already today, but other than that, it becomes much harder to upgrade any further without being a completely different kind of company: vueling and germanwings for instance sell connectivity through some of their bases to augment the number of flight options available to their customers and I bet easyjet is considering that too as they target corporate flyers, but such a thing does come at a certain cost of course, a cost which ultimately is carried by ALL passengers, not just those who make use of it, so you can only get away with it if your main customer base isn't extremely price sensitive either.

This is exactly why I have stated from the start ryanair should better introduce a completely new brand in order to segregate their new operations at premium airports from their current product at second tier airports, as these are 2 very different customer bases.

The fact they don't do so will somehow limit their commercial possibilities, unless they are not so sure they are going to remain mostly the kind of airline they are today after all and are in fact considering to slowly but steadily pull out of the ultra-low cost segment and thus the secondary airports like CRL for instance, in which case a seperated brand isn't needed indeed as the strong ryanair brand can then be carried over on the new product.

Regardless, I can very much understand why SAVE isn't too eager to invest any further in CRL until they have a clearer sight on its long term future: there are just too many vital questions unanswered at present and I doubt even ryanair itself can answer them in full right now because all this seems to be a little bit too much of a 'me too' strategy rolled out in reaction to a heavily changed market environment which they suddenly got caught in, much to their own surprise.
You are making great points here and I'm ready to admit that at any point even if we don't often agree.

FR's partial shift in strategy is likely to increase the costs across all segments if they don't offer it as separate brands or optional things that can only be booked on corporate routes. For instance, a second bag will increase their costs of operating those typical leisure CRL flights as well, even if it's to satisfy the typical customer flying out of BRU.
A small increase in costs here and there over thousands of flights a day can result in a major difference on the earnings at the end of the year... which is a great concern that I have.

On the other hand, FR is not reacting to a bad year, I think that they are trying to position themselves for the long term. Long term, it's likely that access to subsidies will decrease and decrease, causing them to dry out if they don't adapt.

I think that if FR starts launching connections, a launch of their longhaul operations will be imminent. To feed longhaul you need connections, but for shorthaul, connections are a costly burden that FR will prefer to avoid by offering point-to-point where traffic is significant enough and otherwise let their low-fare customers build their own connections. So I think that they will launch connections at almost the same time as they make a move for longhaul...Those two things can go well together at an airport like BRU.

So maybe they will combine that with a rebranding at that stage... the fact alone that they are mentionning a Belgian AOC... I am taking a long shot here but if I were FR and I were waiting for the right timing to start my longhaul hub out of BRU, this is exactly the chess strategy that I would be playing...

SAVE's wait and see attitude is very understandable here indeed. I can see why this is also why they would like to have the best possible price for their capital share increase, the underlying risk is becoming bigger.
A 12.5% per annum ROI isn't bad, but obviously a shift in FR's strategy can bring changes to that as FR is a big mass in their portfolio of customers and the steadiest routes are most likely to be shifted to BRU.

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Re: 2014 Charleroi airport (CRL/EBCI) latest news

Post by Inquirer »

Flanker2 wrote: FR's partial shift in strategy is likely to increase the costs across all segments if they don't offer it as separate brands or optional things that can only be booked on corporate routes. For instance, a second bag will increase their costs of operating those typical leisure CRL flights as well, even if it's to satisfy the typical customer flying out of BRU.
A small increase in costs here and there over thousands of flights a day can result in a major difference on the earnings at the end of the year... which is a great concern that I have.
That's the whole point is it?
Selling frills as anciliary products is a nice add on, but they are doing more than just that: they are being lenient on booking errors, allowing more free cabin luggage, waving a kilogram or 2 in excess checked luggage, moving into bigger airports with higher costs and longer ground times and also often more delays etc. etc. all of which will drive up their costs which somehow need to be passed on to ALL passengers, not just those who decide to pay for it.
As already said, since they don't start at bigger airports under a seperate brand, all of this is somehow also going to be carried over to the 'old bases' too as passengers will come to expect it too there since they too fly the very same ryanair as the one at say BRU or FCO, where it is indeed needed to come with such a more business customer minded attitude.
Flanker2 wrote: On the other hand, FR is not reacting to a bad year
Don't forget they have issued 2 profit warnings since summer and are known to be losing more than 100M over this winter for the very first time ever: while I agree this is not dramatic (yet), the clearly negative trend must have come as a huge shock to them, especially as their direct competitors and even the wider aviation industry is showing significantly improved operating results at the same time.
They clearly didn't see this coming as early as this spring even, so they have rightfully decided that they must act for they know that things wont get any better by just sitting it out.
As you say their access to subsidies -which have been a vital part of their business plan- will only decrease in future while competitors like vueling and easyjet are moving full spead ahead, stimulated by great commercial and financial successes which are making ryanair's operational results look very bleak in comparison, so a strategic reorientation was urgently needed, even if their current plans show all signs of being a little bit too rushed to feel comfortable with at present. O Leary seems to be in panic mode, quite frankly.
Flanker2 wrote: SAVE's wait and see attitude is very understandable here indeed. I can see why this is also why they would like to have the best possible price for their capital share increase, the underlying risk is becoming bigger.
A 12.5% per annum ROI isn't bad, but obviously a shift in FR's strategy can bring changes to that as FR is a big mass in their portfolio of customers and the steadiest routes are most likely to be shifted to BRU.
Indeed.
If ryanair indeed feels that after this summer, they have managed to improve their deteriorating financial results by moving into the direction of easyjet/vueling/germanwings, don't expect them to just say: 'Good, we've stopped the assault'! Regardless what they are saying about their long term loyalty to CRL right now, they will not hesitate one second to move much more routes from CRL to BRU and make another U-turn on whatever strategic airport commitment they now show, just as they have been doing on their product strategy too which until 2 months ago couldn't be enough spartan, remember? Who would have thought in May they would be doing what they are doing now? Not even MOL himself, I bet!

Of course, BSCA -controlled by regional government- is pretending nothing changed and keeps a blind eye to the new reality, hoping things will turn out well for them, and it can, but still: they'd do well to keep a flexible attitude towards future, not to commit to any major investments short term (say put it on hold for at least a year) and especially not to rely too much on whatever assurances MOL gives them right now. If worst comes to being, CRL will just keep the very low yield, thin routes which operate just a few times weekly, with the big mass routes like BUD, DUB or whatever they have at CRL all quickly moved to BRU where they can make more profit from it, despite the higher costs there.

In the end, it all comes down to this simple question: given that the overwhelming majority of passengers from CRL are not from Charleroi itself but coming/going to places well north of Charleroi, are those passengers willing to pay a say 25 euro price difference for the convenience of a -from their point of view- more closer airport like BRU?
I have a feeling that for most of their steadiest routes (which are ultimately mostly business routes) the answer is YES, especially as Ryanair starts to target more upscale customers. If I am right, this can have huge repercussions for CRL.
Remember Girona - Barcelona? SAVE certainly does and it likely feeling there's a risk things may be moving in the same direction here!
Last edited by Inquirer on 24 Jan 2014, 09:52, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: 2014 Charleroi airport (CRL/EBCI) latest news

Post by Acid-drop »

I know some nation that will do anything to save 30 cents, including taking potatoes in their caravan for the holidays.
Appart from businessmen, i think most people will simply take the cheaper... But cheaper can also be BRU many times depending on load factor...
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Re: 2014 Charleroi airport (CRL/EBCI) latest news

Post by Acid-drop »

for this summer, lisbon can only be booked from BRU, not CRL anymore.
Any idea why ?
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Re: 2014 Charleroi airport (CRL/EBCI) latest news

Post by sean1982 »

Because Ryanair transferred the flight to BRU, I'm expecting more flights to be transferred to BRU after the summer

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Re: 2014 Charleroi airport (CRL/EBCI) latest news

Post by Acid-drop »

Alright...
Sn is actually cheaper for my dates from BRU. Easy choice.
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Inquirer
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Re: 2014 Charleroi airport (CRL/EBCI) latest news

Post by Inquirer »

Acid-drop wrote:for this summer, lisbon can only be booked from BRU, not CRL anymore.
Any idea why ?
It's the obvious consequence of the upscaling of ryanair's product, which will allow them to charge significantly higher prices to their customers. This strategy will however also erode much of the price gap with their nearest competitors (as you have noticed for yourself, with B.air even becoming the cheapest option for your travel) to the point where flying to premium destinations from CRL becomes more of a drawback than a benefit and a move of routes to BRU makes sense, just as it makes sense for Easyjet or vueling to fly from BRU iso CRL.

As Sean has said, you can expect ryanair to move more routes with the same profile to BRU after summer (as they wind down their summer routes there), leaving CRL with mainly those routes which really need extremely low airport taxes and subsidies in order to draw sufficient interest. The others may better be served from BRU, as I doubt they will loose all too many passengers over a 30 euro tax increase on for instance their UK routes and even their BUD or WAW routes after a move to BRU and those can easily be offset by new passengers.

In the end the weakness of CRL is that it is situated predominantly outside of its main catchment area and that it comes with an additional cost (fuel/time) to get to for most of its customers, which is no big problem for occasional leisure passengers as the lower taxes are a good incentive for a family of four, but it is simply not attractive for business people who fly on a weekly basis.

In fact, it's not difficult to guess which routes are under thread of being axed at CRL if you understand the above and it's a given CRL will get a much more seasonal and leisure oriented route map in future than it currently has, Something SAVE has understood too, hence their desire to stop investing in the airport till they know what they will be left with in a couple of years.

With Ryanair doing everything it can to become another Easyjet as quickly as possible, they may not fit very well at CRL any longer, so I wouldn't give too much weight to all the verbal assurances they give you know. Until their transformation is complete, they still need CRL and so they will try to keep a good relationship till they are ready to drop it in the same way as they have walked away from Girona (and others) in the past, notwithstanding all the money thrown at them.

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Re: 2014 Charleroi airport (CRL/EBCI) latest news

Post by Stij »

I hope the SNCB/NMBS and the Walloon Region think twice before they construct a new line and railway station...

Cheers,

Stij

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Re: 2014 Charleroi airport (CRL/EBCI) latest news

Post by Acid-drop »

it all makes sense except that ... if SN is cheaper half of the time, Ryanair may just be a lot less successfull than they expect.
This strategy will however also erode much of the price gap with their nearest competitors (as you have noticed for yourself, with B.air even becoming the cheapest option for your travel)
I agree
to the point where flying to premium destinations from CRL becomes more of a drawback than a benefit and a move of routes to BRU makes sense
I don't agree anymore...
Ryanair is great for a unique reason: the price.
If the prices are equal, or even higher than SN or Easy or anyone else (i fly to norway for 150€ with SAS, SN isn't the only one to have good price), it remains very usefull to fly from CRL.
I am a good case : i would have flown ryanair to lisbon, but they've lost a client with their move.
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Re: 2014 Charleroi airport (CRL/EBCI) latest news

Post by Inquirer »

Acid-drop wrote: Ryanair is great for a unique reason: the price.
I agree, but the thing is competitors haven't stood still over the past few years and have managed to cut their operating costs too, to the point many are now able to sustainably offer interestingly priced tickets which come close to those of Ryanair, but with more product conveniences offered. The result is to be seen in the Q3 report of Ryanair: the obligation to sell all too many tickets at a loss in order to still fill the planes, leading to a significant loss right at a time when most other airlines' financial results move in the opposite direction.

I agree however that it is somewhat of a tricky plan to partially ditch their unique selling point, which is why I have repeatedly stated they should have started a new company to differentiate more than they will only do now. However, it becomes increasingly clear that the main reason they haven't done so, is to be found in the urgency of the matter, as well as in their timid acceptance that their current business plan isn't sustainable in the long run any longer.

With their new strategy, Ryanair hopes to flourish again in future, but I doubt it will be from CRL and I am pretty sure they will not longer have such a grip on the markets served as they do now from CRL. When you want to operate like Easyjet, you inevitably also have to accept their cost base: there's really no way around that and so as a customer you will on many occasions find better value alternatives elsewhere indeed, even on routes operated by the 'new' Ryanair, as you have noticed yourself.

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Re: 2014 Charleroi airport (CRL/EBCI) latest news

Post by crlhub »

We are happy to announce the Ryanair route to Clermont-Ferrand for this summer with 2 flights/week (Wednesdays & Fridays) from July to September!

bsca

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Re: 2014 Charleroi airport (CRL/EBCI) latest news

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crlhub wrote:We are happy to announce the Ryanair route to Clermont-Ferrand for this summer with 2 flights/week (Wednesdays & Fridays) from July to September!
... plus an additional weekly flight on Mondays during the whole month of August.
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Re: 2014 Charleroi airport (CRL/EBCI) latest news

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Ryanair announces one extra plane at Brussels South this summer.
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Re: 2014 Charleroi airport (CRL/EBCI) latest news

Post by airazurxtror »

Jean-Jacques Cloquet, CEO de BSCA a déclaré :

« Dans l’attente de l’arrivée de vols transatlantiques, nous sommes heureux – en tant que partenaire privilégié, d’accueillir plus tôt que prévu ce treizième avion Ryanair. La compagnie irlandaise confirme ainsi son développement à BSCA et témoigne de sa satisfaction concernant la rapidité de ses opérations et les excellents taux de remplissage de leurs avions depuis/vers l’aéroport de Bruxelles-Sud Charleroi.

"Pending the arrival of transatlantic flights, we are happy - as a preferred partner - to host earlier than expected this thirteenth Ryanair plane. The Irish company confirms its development in BSCA and shows its appreciation for the speed of its operations and excellent load factor of their aircraft to / from Brussels South Charleroi.
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Re: 2014 Charleroi airport (CRL/EBCI) latest news

Post by airazurxtror »

http://www.charleroi-airport.com/en/sho ... 26fefd51d1

Brussels South Charleroi Airport announced its decision to reallocate its old south terminal. Used for more than ten years before its transfer to the current terminal in 2008, this site is ideally located with a large parking capacity (approx. 500 places). BSCA would now like to bring its old terminal back into use in several stages.
Following a market study and a survey of the wishes of the local population, BSCA is planning to open a brasserie, which will be followed by building of a sports hall and finally the opening of some small local shops.
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