Ryanair at Brussels Airport

[RoMax]

MOL has said at his Brussels press conference that there are three major airports in which he would never attempt to go: LHR, CDG and FRA, the main hubs of the three main European legacy carriers.

Indeed, it just shows how mean MOL is. He does not dare to take on the big ones, but he will not hesitate to go for the easy preys. The guy is just disgusting and his practices are appalling.

Another very simply but very important reason for FR not to launch flights from LHR, FRA and CDG simply is that they will not be able to get the slots (or they'll be too expensive) needed to really compete with BA, AF and LH at these airports.

[cathay belgium]

Hi,

Like MoL or not, like FR or not...
MoL is a big success for FR, he is the best CEO FR can have...
If only other CEO 's could have such an own personality BRU airport could have looked a lot better
FR is always moving on the scene.. SN is snailwise going on ... The result of this we see at the moment..
I don't like to see FR come to BRU, but it is really an interesting move...
My bet is that Vueling will be the first to abandon the scene... and soon...

CXB

[Air Key West]

Another very simply but very important reason for FR not to launch flights from LHR, FRA and CDG simply is that they will not be able to get the slots (or they'll be too expensive) needed to really compete with BA, AF and LH at these airports.

You're right about LHR. No more slots available and if/when some become available, they are too expensive for most airlines. However, I don't think this applies to CDG or FRA.
Just asking a question : what about slot availability at BRU in the morning ? Probably not saturated, yet, but would enough slots be available (in the morning) if FR wanted to expand massively at BRU ?

MoL is a big success for FR, he is the best CEO FR can have...
If only other CEO 's could have such an own personality

Fortunately, most CEOs don't have the MOL mentality ! Fortunately, most airlines are not managed like b.air.

[RoMax]

However, I don't think this applies to CDG or FRA.

It certainly does if you want to offer a high-frequency operation which can compete with AF and LH (so with a very convenient shedule). Since a new runway opened at FRA, they got the seriously needed runway capacity, but they still have to deny certain peak hour slot requests. As is the case with many airports, it's not a matter of total capacity, but peak capacity. If RYR wants to take on LH, AF, BA head-on at their main hubs, they can not do that with off-peak slots and they will have a hard time getting the right peak hour slots for enough flights to be able to set an operation of significant importance.

[Air Key West]

Agreed. But isn't FR a LCC ? Meaning these airlines basically want their pax to fly when they can offer them the cheapest fares ? Frequency and convenient flight times are seldom a priority for LCCs. Even if FR MIGHT seem to slightly adapt its business model, will it make a complete U-turn ? Probably not, because it might be too expensive and they could not offer very low fares anymore, and also because of slot restrictions (maybe even at BRU).

[cathay belgium]

Hi,

LCC has nothing to do with low fares only low costs structure..
So paying for everything extra, low cost for the airliners not for the pax!
CXB
Btw frequency is offered by fr, like milan bgy,bcn,cia,...

[RoMax]

Agreed. But isn't FR a LCC ? Meaning these airlines basically want their pax to fly when they can offer them the cheapest fares ? Frequency and convenient flight times are seldom a priority for LCCs. Even if FR MIGHT seem to slightly adapt its business model, will it make a complete U-turn ? Probably not, because it might be too expensive and they could not offer very low fares anymore, and also because of slot restrictions (maybe even at BRU).

Look at the timings of their announced flights for BRU. I'm not saying they are real legacy carrier shedules, but they show clear morning, evening 'waves' for the multiple daily routes Rome, Lissbon, Barcelona. Seems normal? Yes it is. But that's also what they'll want to offer at CDG, LHR, FRA...and they cannot. There is no sense in operating at such expensive airports, if you are not competing head-on with the carrier having its hub overthere and to do so, you have to offer a convenient shedule. Low prices and off-peak operations is what they currently do (though certainly not all their flights), they reached certain boundries in that model.

[FlightMate]

It's unfortunate that in 12 years, SN didn't manage to fill the peak hours slots at BRU, making it easier for the competition to step in.

[Stij]

After reading a lot of posts and the papers, my comments:

1. History is repeating itself: Look at the US: Southwest started flying from Love to Hobby and moved to major airports later on (like Ryanair now). Valuejet (later AirTran) immediately started from major airports (a bit like Easyjet, but without the crash). The legacy carriers are still there, but adapted. Both models grew to each other. The same will happen here: Lufthansa got this perfectly well with Germanwings, Iberia with Vueling. Funny to see they still don't risk it with their own brand.

2. Bru Air will have to focus even more on connecting traffic and secondary destinations and consider itself very lucky LH can't really grow in FRA and Star doesn't have another hub close. Otherwise it would have been over and out already.

2B. Bru Air could strip the B Light product even more and bring it in line with Easyjet or Germanwings: pay for luggage, pay for a seat of choice etc. But bring the *)(*&*&%%&^$ price also in line!!! People connecting from intercontinental flights could fly B Flex.

3. Our Flemish and Walloon politicians... When FR was expanding in CRL the Flemish were screaming that this was unfair, social dumping, a danger for the other airports etc. etc. The Walloon politicians were silent... Now it's the other way around!!! With exactly the same arguments!!! Pretty funny!!!

4. The world is flat... read the book by Thomas Friedman...

Cheers,

Stij

[Passenger]

For those online now : in a few minutes on Flemish VRT radio, 09h00,

talk program Hautekiet: "why are some airlines so cheap?"

[LJ]

AMS? The airport and the Dutch government (which is roughly the same) do what they can to prevent Ryanair to come to Schiphol in order to protect KLM.

Sorry, but what is your source? Moreover, I don't think you can accuse AMS for beiung a protective to KLM. In fact, it needed a few meeting before the air between AMS and KLM cleared (and KL is still not amused by the room it gives to new entrants like EK). Moreover, FR already received slots for AMS (26 weekly flights), but probably choose BRU over AMS and thus returned the slots it had at AMS.

You're right about LHR. No more slots available and if/when some become available, they are too expensive for most airlines. However, I don't think this applies to CDG or FRA.

It does apply to FRA. There are virtually no slots available in peak hours (which is what FR needs if it wants to compete with LH). CDG doesn't have slot issues, but is already saturated with LCCs (e.g. easyJet) and charter airlines. Moreover, you have the LCCs at Orly.

I do wonder if this a sustainable business relationship, in fact, as there are possibly many ways in which BRU can make the life of Ryanair pretty miserable over there, should they really wish to rid them of this carrier, so the 2 better have a good talk or this bad start can turn into a nasty fight.

As long as FR pays the fees BRU wants to have they shouldn't complain. Given the fact that BRU management seems to be surpised about FR's move I can only conclude that FR didn't receive a discount from BRU.

[teddybAIR]

I need to visit family in Mallorca in may and browsed the sites of JAF and RYR. For illustration and not claiming this is representative, yet to me as a customer it is relevant, here's the fares I got:

JAF
13MAY14: Charleroi --> Palma de Mallorca: 49,99€ (arriving at Palma at 09:35)
20MAY14: Palma de mallorca --> Charleroi: 49,99€ (leaving Palma at 10:10)
Add to that the reservation fee for reservations made via Jetairfly.com meaning I have to add 15€
Total price: 114,98€

RYR
13MAY14: Charleroi --> Palma de Mallorca: 29,99€ (arriving at Palma at 23:25)
13MAY14: Palma de Mallorca --> Charleroi: 50,99€ (leaving Palma at 18:30)
taking into account the discount for paying with a debet card, the price would be only 80,98€
We will be travelling with an infant, so that would mean I would need to pay 30€ infant fee per flight, resulting in 60€ infant fee for the return flight.
Total price: 140,98€

Add to that the fact that I have regularly flown JAF and trust them to handle my booking without surprises and that I am not confident or 100% sure that I will not be charged with fees I have not accounted for. So in this case, the decision is to fly JAF and my conclusion on the matter is that a company like JAF should not fear the low cost capability of Ryanair, but rather the overcapacity that will be generated on some of their routes, resulting in dillution of load factors.

[airtrainer]

Fast conclusion if you ask me. Yes, Jetairfly is cheaper NOW, but we're still well ahead of the time you want to fly and fares will change, especially knowing that FR promo fares are not released that far in advance. Still, 115€ for a return flight to PMI sounds acceptable. Enjoy !

[Flanker2]

It seems that Ryanair has stopped their annoying on-board announcements. That makes a huge difference.
Now I don't need ear-plugs anymore.

I noticed that FR's best fares are found 3 weeks to 10 weeks prior to departure. If you are booking outside of that, expect to pay more. Also, a little secret: FR's fares are cheaper when you browse them in the week-ends. Booking during peak daytime hours in the week is most expensive.

[teddybAIR]

I noticed that FR's best fares are found 3 weeks to 10 weeks prior to departure. If you are booking outside of that, expect to pay more. Also, a little secret: FR's fares are cheaper when you browse them in the week-ends. Booking during peak daytime hours in the week is most expensive.

I understand, but for this type of trips where I want to be sure I'll get there at the date I want, I'm not willing to wait until 3 weeks prior to departure and face the stress whether I'll have them cheap tickets or not. How much do you reckon I can save if I wait until then?

[airtrainer]

I noticed that FR's best fares are found 3 weeks to 10 weeks prior to departure. If you are booking outside of that, expect to pay more. Also, a little secret: FR's fares are cheaper when you browse them in the week-ends. Booking during peak daytime hours in the week is most expensive.

I understand, but for this type of trips where I want to be sure I'll get there at the date I want, I'm not willing to wait until 3 weeks prior to departure and face the stress whether I'll have them cheap tickets or not. How much do you reckon I can save if I wait until then?

Fares to Palma are currently advertised at "from 15,99€" for travels in january/february. That's what you could expect with a bit of luck...

[Acid-drop]

with or without tax ?

[fcw]

I need to visit family in Mallorca in may and browsed the sites of JAF and RYR. For illustration and not claiming this is representative, yet to me as a customer it is relevant, here's the fares I got:

JAF
13MAY14: Charleroi --> Palma de Mallorca: 49,99€ (arriving at Palma at 09:35)
20MAY14: Palma de mallorca --> Charleroi: 49,99€ (leaving Palma at 10:10)
Add to that the reservation fee for reservations made via Jetairfly.com meaning I have to add 15€
Total price: 114,98€

RYR
13MAY14: Charleroi --> Palma de Mallorca: 29,99€ (arriving at Palma at 23:25)
13MAY14: Palma de Mallorca --> Charleroi: 50,99€ (leaving Palma at 18:30)
taking into account the discount for paying with a debet card, the price would be only 80,98€
We will be travelling with an infant, so that would mean I would need to pay 30€ infant fee per flight, resulting in 60€ infant fee for the return flight.
Total price: 140,98€

Add to that the fact that I have regularly flown JAF and trust them to handle my booking without surprises and that I am not confident or 100% sure that I will not be charged with fees I have not accounted for. So in this case, the decision is to fly JAF and my conclusion on the matter is that a company like JAF should not fear the low cost capability of Ryanair, but rather the overcapacity that will be generated on some of their routes, resulting in dillution of load factors.

You forgot the 60€ baby fee with JAF!
You could stay one day longer with your family and come back on the 21st with FR for 29,99€.

[fcw]

with or without tax ?

FR always advertises prices with all taxes included.
Unlike some others who promise 25% discount, but that 25% is only appicable to 10% of ticket so in reality it is 2,5% discount!

[teddybAIR]

In this thread on EBBR routes, airlines & destinations, forum member hvs89 seems to confirm that RYR asked for departure slots between 2300LT and 0600LT, but that they were refused given curfew on flights limiting the yearly amount of flights within that timeframe to maximum 16.000. Curious to see what happens next.

La Libre says:

« Les meilleures créneaux horaires, tôt le matin pour le décollage et tard le soir pour l'atterrissage étaient déjà tous pris », fait-on savoir auprès de BSC (Belgium slot coordination) l'organisation chargée d'accorder ces slots. "Ryanair est venue en dernière minute et il existait déjà une liste d'attente pour certains créneaux ».

Translation: the optimal slots in the early morning for take-off and late evening for landing were already booked by other airlines according to BSC, the organisation that manages slot allocation. "Ryanair had a last minute request and there is a long waiting list for some of those slots"