Ryanair at Brussels Airport

[sean1982]

Its 1 big and 1 small bag! The small bag will easily fit under the seats.

[crew1990]

Well as far as I know, the new policy of Ryanair for the bags in cabin are one trolley plus one small bag, such like a hand bag, a laptop or something, so don't expect 2 trolley...

[airazurxtror]

Well, to speak of comparing ...
I have just booked a day return trip BRU-ROM/FCO beginning of may, on Ryanair. It set me back 63,22 euros.
On the same day, a CRL-ROM/CIA return would have cost me 76,48 euros - and a BRU-ROM/FCO return with Brussels Airlines 396 euros (not to speak of Alitalia : 435,25 euros - if it lasts until then).

[RTM]

I am still convinced that SN and FR can peacefully co-exist at BRU. The only thing that SN is to do is keep focusing on their long haul and use their european network to feed. They are not fishing in the same pond (mostly)

I do agree to some degree Sean. But the detail is in the last word at the end of your statement, mostly. On a competed route, these pax can mean the difference between profit or loss...

[RTM]

Well, to speak of comparing ...
I have just booked a day return trip BRU-ROM/FCO beginning of may, on Ryanair. It set me back 63,22 euros.
On the same day, a CRL-ROM/CIA return would have cost me 76,48 euros - and a BRU-ROM/FCO return with Brussels Airlines 396 euros (not to speak of Alitalia : 435,25 euros - if it lasts until then).

Don't compare promotional fares to regular fare please. Take the aitport taxes away from that amount, and you will have to agree that that is not a sustainable fare.
But off coarse, a heavy offensive is done by Ryanair, not to be mistaken.

[sn26567]

At the press conference, MOL announced promotional fares of 15.99 euros out of BRU. Take the airport taxes out of that and he is losing a lot of money! I guess there are not many tickets at that price...

[Passenger]

Well, to speak of comparing ...
I have just booked a day return trip BRU-ROM/FCO beginning of may, on Ryanair. It set me back 63,22 euros.
On the same day, a CRL-ROM/CIA return would have cost me 76,48 euros - and a BRU-ROM/FCO return with Brussels Airlines 396 euros (not to speak of Alitalia : 435,25 euros - if it lasts until then).

Don't compare promotional fares to regular fare please. Take the aitport taxes away from that amount, and you will have to agree that that is not a sustainable fare.
But off coarse, a heavy offensive is done by Ryanair, not to be mistaken.

I also have done some checks today, and Ryanair was in 33% of my cases the cheapest one. Brussels Airlines was in 33% of the cases the cheapest, and Alitalia in 33% of the case. Guess what?! In 1 of my cases, all three airlines had exactly the the same price.

Or was it not? What I want to say is that price comparisons here are not done fair towards all airlines. Do it like the average tourist (and even business man) is doing, when booking months in advance: also check the prices from the other airlines for an earlier and a later flight, eventually on the next day, etc. Yesterday, both Flemish tv-stations did not do that: in the first case Ryanair was the cheapest, in the second case Brussels Airlines was the cheapest. Both time with a difference of 70 euro.

See also
http://www.whichairline.com/news/Battle ... e-cheapest
and
http://www.ryanair.com/en/terms-and-con ... ableoffees

[sean1982]

But as you only compared FCO, you missed the fact that on the other routes the difference is a lot more obvious.

Also I dont see what the table of fees is doing in your post as it has no relevance. At least FR is up front about what it is going to cost you. SN has no comparable table published. As usual your post just serves to provoke.

[LJ]

I don't quite understand why people don't see that FR is now changing from an ULCC to a LCC and is aiming at the business pax who don't travel on corporate contracts (what Southwest and easyJet have been doing for a long time). EasyJet has been very successful pursuing this market and no doubt SN (and AZ) will feel the pressure as they will have to adapt their last minute fares (which is where the airlines make their money). Finally, I'm glad that FR acknowledges that the ULCC is not always the way to go and that the race to the bottom seems to have ended (though this is not good news for the legacies).

[liege-bierset]

Just for fun.
http://portfolio.lesoir.be/main.php?g2_itemId=861553

[jan_olieslagers]

Just for fun.

Pas mal, indeed!

[appel]

Isn't it possible that FR will remain a ulcc for the biggest part (or a hybrid after all the costumer servicr improvements) and at the same time go after the business pax at the bigger airports with ofcourse higher fares? I can see the 2 faces of ryanair coexcist at the same time. And maybr in the future even to make transfers possible at some airports.

[sn26567]

Airline Route gives more details about the inception of the routes and the frequencies:

eff 27FEB14 Brussels – Alicante 4 weekly (1 daily from 30MAR14)
eff 27FEB14 Brussels – Barcelona 3 daily
eff 27FEB14 Brussels – Lisbon 2 daily
eff 27FEB14 Brussels – Malaga 3 weekly (1 daily from 29MAR14)
eff 27FEB14 Brussels – Palma Mallorca 4 weekly (1 daily from 31MAR14)
eff 27FEB14 Brussels – Porto 1 daily
eff 27FEB14 Brussels – Rome Fiumcino 2 daily
eff 27FEB14 Brussels – Valencia 3 weekly (6 weekly from 29MAR14)
eff 27FEB14 Brussels – Venice Treviso 1 daily
eff 01JUL14 Brussels – Ibiza 1 daily (until 31AUG14)

[Flanker2]

I see that SN adapted their fares too. Vueling is now the most expensive one with AZ.
FR will average 99€ return on BRU-FCO and SN 142€, most of the time.
If you travel with luggage, SN will be cheaper.

On other routes, FR is the cheapest by large margins.

I doubt EU people care whether it's Ryanair or SN or AZ. Most of the diplomats have fixed cost reimbursements from which they need to cover their travel expenses. So they will prefer to save the 50 euro's and spend them on a nice meal.

Vueling will have to do something if they want to stay in this market.
SN already reacted by lowering the fares and that's quite a good move of them. It's better to lose a little than to lose it all. However, they need to come up with more long-term thinking.
I say it again, SN needs to distinguish itself by offering something that no other carrier offers on short-haul: an excellent business class hard product.

If they don't do anything, SN will lose big on B.light and also on B.flex.
I don't say that their numbers will drop 50% on those routes, but even a 25% drop is sufficient to go from a small profit to total disaster. If you budget 11 million for a route that costs 10 million to operate, a 25% drop means that you will only have a turn-over of 8,25 millions. That's a loss of 1,75 million for a single route.
Have 10 of those routes, and you get the picture.

[Inquirer]

Nice to see a more or less civilized discussion on this topic for once. I like it.

Me too...
What a change from the usual bashing back and forth, even though the usual distractors are of course present. Such a relief for people who don't want to get involved in all of that, so please continue ignoring the extemists, I should say.

Basically Ryanair now shows what a flight really costs. The fact that the ticket prices seem to be inline with the competition shows two things (...)

Well, yes, to me it shows the reality, which is that the more service you provide to your customer (and I do count operating at a main airport and having multiple frequencies a day as a kind of service too here), the more costly your operations become and those costs can't but be reflected in the ticket prices: ryanair is no expection to this rule and they are clearly not having a magic formula either if I look at their price range.

For sure they've traditionally looked very different to say an Easyjet or a Germanwings as long as they remained safely at CRL, but now that they have decided to move to BRU, their prices no longer differ so much from their direct competitors anylonger in fact and just like you, I do wonder if their brand image and reputation isn't going to play against them somehow?

Already some time ago, I pointed out that for their planned transformation into just another regular airline, they'd be better off with a seperate brand from ryainair and I after noticing what I did on price setting yesterday and reading through the many similar (and sometimes dissapointed) reactions, I would once again like to highlight that remark of mine: their website, their speech and even their product itself has definitely softened and has changed, but the expectations of the public on what they have turned into their differentiating core value over all those years (i.e. unbeatable rock bottom prices) haven't: if you have a problem delivering on that, it has the potential to work against you.
Of course you can change all that as time goes by, but getting rid of a wrong perception and beating customer's expectations isn't the easiest thing: it's far easier to start with a clean sheet and build a reputation from scratch while setting those expectations yourself, than it is to change them, which is why I say they should have opted for a seperate brand.
The fact they haven't may be attributed to the speed at which they are pushing through this transformation, which in itself may -or may not- tell you something about the sense of urgency that is surrounding it all, something I have also already noticed in the past too and for which I got flamed, but nevertheles, the evidence all adds up that they are indeed no longer in the driver's seat, so to say, an uncomfortable position to be in for them, for the first time ever.

Concerning the ticket prices: I also noticed that quite often SN & FR would offer roughly the same price. Also bear in mind that the routes are brand new, so SN hasn't been able to anticipate to the FR prices by putting them on the same level (if they would want to do so). I think the price conscious smart traveler will just have to check all carriers on a route and not just sheepishly assume the LCC one will be the cheapest one no matter what.

That is a good recommendation indeed and one that everybody should be doing for pretty much everything in life, already since some time now, be it electricity, telecommunication, fuel or indeed plane tickets.
Most routes from BRU have multiple options since long, so it has always been a good idea to check all of them and make a choice based on the offer and the arrival of ryanair doesn't really change that: it'll just add another option to the list, one that isn't such an undisputed best option as could have been expected at first, given their reputation, it now seems.

I am still convinced that SN and FR can peacefully co-exist at BRU. The only thing that SN is to do is keep focusing on their long haul and use their european network to feed.

I agree on the first, although I would like to point out that there should not be any reason for Bru.air to just abandon the European market itself, as if they stand no change whatsoever.
They seem to hold grounds fairly well against the likes of for instance Easyjet at BRU and although it is still very eary, it is likely that 'ryanair BRU' if I may call them like that for a minute are going to be a lot more of an Easyjet than a 'ryanair CRL' pricewise, so there shouldn't be any reason to think one can't effectively compete with them over the point-to-point passengers too.
Aer Lingus is successfully doing just that at DUB for instance and I am fairly sure DUB gets far more flights from ryanair than BRU will. I once pointed out in a discussion over ryanair's longlasting and ever so illfated attempts to buy Aer Lingus that they want to do so not so much because it makes any commercial sense, but because they have been an all too visual illustration of what I have just come to say.

I am sure some will say I read all too much into things or that I just don't know what I am talking about (and I admit I am no aviation manager, although I have experience in strategic corporate planning, in case it hasn't been obvious yet), but one has to admit somehow that all the pieces do fit nicely together, many of which have been put on the table by me long before there was any talk of a strategy change at ryanair, let alone them coming to BRU?

[b720]

I think that RYANAIR does have an advantage: illusion by the general public that they are the cheapest, even when they are not. RYANAIR 'fans' are delighted that they fly to BRU now, they will book them without always checking with the competition as they are convinced (thanks to decades of publicity) that no one beats RYAIN AIR with price. SN MUST improve their product before dropping prices. they need to work on their punctuality and advertise their performance weekly on their website (like VIrgin Express used to do).. and they shall need to reward their clients with miles (miles and more should become more attractive for those who fly numerous european flights in B-lite) as of Jan. most B-lite fares will generate 125 miles, which is a token, really. They should re-introduce minimum service on B-lite. and improve B-flex and try to make Business one of the best in europe. They should reduce Business and b flex prices, similar to what SWISS does. Swiss often offers a Business class fare about EUR 450 return within Europe. With SN it is often close to a 1000 EUR return!!! In other words, they should make B flex and Business more accessible (price wise) as they can never beat Easy, Ryan, or Vueling with prices. they could with the service.

[crlhub]

Ryanair kan lage prijzen nooit houden’.

http://www.standaard.be/cnt/dmf20131129 ... gn=seeding

[sean1982]

Ryanair kan lage prijzen nooit houden’.

http://www.standaard.be/cnt/dmf20131129 ... gn=seeding

Many prophetic words have been spoken about Ryanair, many turn out to be wrong

[airazurxtror]

Ryanair kan lage prijzen nooit houden’.

That is known as wishful thinking.

[Inquirer]

I think that RYANAIR does have an advantage: illusion by the general public that they are the cheapest, even when they are not. RYANAIR 'fans' are delighted that they fly to BRU now, they will book them without always checking with the competition as they are convinced (thanks to decades of publicity) that no one beats RYAIN AIR with price.

That is correct, for as long as the price asked, matches the price expected.
I fear however that an average price range of say 150 to 200 euro for a return trip is well above what most of those traditional ryanair customers would expect and may thus lead to the opposite reaction.
I can't read other people's mind, but I sincerely think that the tradictional ryanair (which will continue in CRL and elsewhere) would better distance itself more a from the 'new ryanair' (which we will see in BRU and Rome).

SN MUST improve their product before dropping prices. they need to work on their punctuality and advertise their performance weekly on their website (like VIrgin Express used to do).. and they shall need to reward their clients with miles (miles and more should become more attractive for those who fly numerous european flights in B-lite) as of Jan. most B-lite fares will generate 125 miles, which is a token, really. They should re-introduce minimum service on B-lite. and improve B-flex and try to make Business one of the best in europe. They should reduce Business and b flex prices, similar to what SWISS does. Swiss often offers a Business class fare about EUR 450 return within Europe. With SN it is often close to a 1000 EUR return!!! In other words, they should make B flex and Business more accessible (price wise) as they can never beat Easy, Ryan, or Vueling with prices. they could with the service.

What I'd recommend them to do is take a page from the Aer Lingus businessplan and turn their current 2 economy classes into one class again all while introducing pretty much the same à la carte concept to it as we see gaining popularity all throughout Europe these days.
Service airlines do have an advantage over airlines like ryanair in this field, in that they can offer (read: sell) far more extra's to their passengers than ryanair ever can.
Lufthansa is doing pretty much the same transformation as the one I am suggesting here to their very own shorthaul services which do not pass through Fra or Muc too, btw.
Germanwings is said to have increased average revenues per passenger vs what Lufthansa got from them in the past, so something along those lines.

what I do agree on is that they should maintain a seperate business class for obvious reasons (connecting passengers) and in regards to that they could lower prices to attract more passengers into it, because they have it anyway, but I certainly wouldn't invest much in it's hard product: just lower the fares and think of the extra revenues from it as being ON TOP of the basic ticket.

A mix of higher revenues from the average economy passenger and a higher utilisation of the business class would go a long way in being sustainably competitive all while being sufficiently different at the same time. Remember one doesn't really need to be the cheapest to win a customer, one just needs to be seen as offering the best value for money , and whatever value a customer seeks, differs amongst them.

I passed through BSL a couple a days ago, and I say a really provocative Swiss billboard there, saying: 'We'll never be the cheapest, but we sure offer you the best value for your money", and in fact it's smack on, if you think of it, but it does require guts to dare to say that in the face of competitors who's only way of advertising is by publishing their lowest possible fares.