Ryanair at Brussels Airport

[Inquirer]

Hi guys!
You can of course do tons of simulations; I stopped doing them yesterday because they seem to swing back and forth all the time, but I must say that the difference is not very spectacular.
Sometimes they are indeed 40 euro cheaper, sometimes they are 20 euro more expensive.
Sometimes the double luggage fees tips the ballance, sometimes it doesn't.
It's competitive for sure, but it's not really what you'd expect from ryanair either, but then the same phenomenon could also be seen at vueling some weeks ago: they refer to themselves as low costs, but they offer what I'd call interesting 'regular' no frill fares at BRU, with the occasional eye catching promotion.
I guess the thing to do is look around and compare prices, times, and promotions, because there just doesn't seem to be an outright 'best buy' right away.
As I said yesterday: 400 euro for 2 tickets for a long weekend to say Rome with ryanair isn't such a bargain to me, or maybe I need to consider asking for a payrise at work?
Not that is surprises me, BRU isn't CRL, but still...

[Inquirer]

They did: 330 EUR with Alitalia and SN compared to 49 EUR with Ryanair and 90 EUR with Vueling on the first Saturday of June 2014.

Indeed, they mention that pretty much the only field where there seems to be a significant difference (they only looked at FCO for this comparison) is in one way tickets: other than that, there's really not much difference, something I also noticed already.

So I guess this is what Brussels will have to work on the coming months, although the equation there is a little bit more complicated than just price alone. I regularly do trips for work and of course the corporate contract, schedule and other stuff like miles and lounge access come into play, because I come back with another carrier then (doing a sort of tiangle flight) so it's not just about price alone when I fly for work, but they may always give us an extra discount of course.

[sean1982]

I just did a simulation of all long weekend in march, april and further in the future in july.
All with 1 adults and bags: The highest I got for march was 210 EUR
The highest I got for july was 160 EUR.

EDIT: sorry you calculated for 2, I did for one

[Inquirer]

Hi sean

It's from the pricequote I did yesterday on FCO, before it was officially announced in BRU:
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=51033&p=289585#p289583
You asked me then where I got that pricequote from since you couldn't check it, but you can now, and if you do, you'll see it is still correct.

I simply took the first weekend after they will launch and took from SAT morning to MON evening (a long weekend Roma, so to say)
flight to FCO on saturdaymorning, March, 1st: 143,99
return to BRU on mondayevening, March, 3rd: 69.99

I understand they have better deals on other days and stuff, but still, it's a perfectly valid and realistic travel option and one I've picked 'in tempore non suspecto' and it comes at more than 420 euro for 2 return tickets and that is without luggage if I understand it well? or is Luggage now included in ryanair's basic fares? I must admits it's not immediately clear and I am not up to speed with their recent improvements.

I have also checked Brussels for the sake of this discussion and they ask 258 for a single return ticket, but with the luggage and miles, so that's pretty close overal, I'd say and neither of which is a real bargain.

[sean1982]

No true, but both BRU and FCO are expensive airports to fly to though. If you're checking Lisbon from BRU for example I get an average of 200 EUR for 2 with one bag included.

Bags are not included no, it's 15EUR for 1 bag, but you're allowed 2 cabin bags now. 90 trolleys will be allowed in the cabin and the rest will be placed in the hold free of charge. Also an assigned seat will be standard and free if you don't really want a particular seat.

If I was gonna go to Rome for a weekend I would fly from CRL to CIA, just my 2 cents

[Inquirer]

No true, but both BRU and FCO are expensive airports to fly to though. If you're checking Lisbon from BRU for example I get an average of 200 EUR for 2 with one bag included.

I know: BRU isn't cheap and FCO isn't either so that all adds up of course, but it just shows even ryanair isn't able to make pigs fly and that airport fees have a tremendous impact on ticket prices,something which is mostly out of control of the operators there, although those are subsequently and frequently bashed for being too expensive.

Bags are not included no, it's 15EUR for 1 bag, but you're allowed 2 cabin bags now. 90 trolleys will be allowed in the cabin and the rest will be placed in the hold free of charge.

Okay.
Do you get them delivered back at the aircraft after the flight, or do you need to go get them on the belt?
I ask because given checked luggage need to be paid for, I image most people try to bring as much on board as they can, which in a way makes it very likely that say a real cabin bag will end in the cargo then, which is a bit silly in fact as a real cabin bag should always make it onboard at airlines which don't charge for luggage?!
Anyway, that's just a practical detail, which isn't very meaningful in a comparison, I agree.

If I was gonna go to Rome for a weekend I would fly from CRL to CIA, just my 2 cents

Probably, or wait for a round of promotions, because I can image there will be some at all airlines, in due time.
Alternatively, i just use my M&M miles and put the handling fee on the expense note at work... Oops!

[sean1982]

Okay.
Do you get them delivered back at the aircraft after the flight, or do you need to go get them on the belt?
I ask because given checked luggage need to be paid for, I image most people try to bring as much on board as they can, which in a way makes it very likely that say a real cabin bag will end in the cargo then, which is a bit silly in fact then, as a real cabin bag should normally always make in onboard at airlines which dont charge for luggage?!
Anyway, that's just a practical detail, which isn't very meaningful in a comparison, I agree.

Not sure, this is new to the crew too. I would think all the bags that go into the hold will have to be collected on the baggage belt. SO yeah your cabin bag will be a hold bag, but at least it's free

[Inquirer]

Okay.
Do you get them delivered back at the aircraft after the flight, or do you need to go get them on the belt?
I ask because given checked luggage need to be paid for, I image most people try to bring as much on board as they can, which in a way makes it very likely that say a real cabin bag will end in the cargo then, which is a bit silly in fact then, as a real cabin bag should normally always make in onboard at airlines which dont charge for luggage?!
Anyway, that's just a practical detail, which isn't very meaningful in a comparison, I agree.

Not sure, this is new to the crew too. I would think all the bags that go into the hold will have to be collected on the baggage belt. SO yeah your cabin bag will be a hold bag, but at least it's free

I understand you don't have a answer to that readily at hands, but I hope you do see the problem?

A lot of people who regularly travel do so with a kind of dedicated lightweight cabin handbag, which is perfectly suitable for the job and will always make it in (even on a CRJ), but I wouldn't be pleased to see it disappear in the cargobelly as it really isn't made for the rougher handling it will then get by the loaders and the belt, just because a bunch of backpackers try to save 15 euro each by bringing a whole lot of what basically should be cargo luggage on board and happen to be before me!

if you take cabin hold away from passengers, the normal procedure is you label it, and you reconcile upon deboarding: at least that's how I see it being done in the rare event it does happen to me. Otherwise I would not be pleased, I hope you understand the problem?

[sean1982]

Sure, as I said this procedure is going into effect from 1st of December. As this is a groundstaff procedure, the aircrew have not really been briefed on how it's going to work. I would think that groundstaff will automatically pick the biggest bags first to be put into the hold. The ones that do not fit in the sizer still need to be paid for btw.

Next week I'm giving training courses the whole week, but the week after I'm operating some flights. I'll report back if I have the answer.

[b-west]

On my frequent cityhopper BRU-AMS trips, the bags that can't go into the cabin get labeled at the gate, need to be left at the door of the plane and are returned to their owner at the door of the plane upon arrival. I had my iPad screen broken like this, as I forgot to take it out and handlers do seem to make it a sport to throw a bag around as roughly as possible. (did get it fully refunded). This is ofcourse on an E-190 or Fokker 70

I'm just wondering how Ryanair will practically do this if on a Boeing 737-800 half the plane would carry 2 bags of which one needs to be checked. Seems nearly impossible and at least very impractical to have an at the door delivery, so they'll probably go on the luggage belt. Which kinda makes it unfair for people who did pay the surcharge.

[b-west]

Concerning the ticket prices: I also noticed that quite often SN & FR would offer roughly the same price. Also bear in mind that the routes are brand new, so SN hasn't been able to anticipate to the FR prices by putting them on the same level (if they would want to do so). I think the price conscious smart traveler will just have to check all carriers on a route and not just sheepishly assume the LCC one will be the cheapest one no matter what.

Ah, and the "FR passenger are peasants discussion"... I've been on literally hundreds of flights the last few years (though my last FR experience dates from 2003) and I've noticed rude behaviour on all carriers and on all booking classes. I had people pushing me, bumping into me with trolleys. People who tried to cut the line because they were in businesss (the same business class I was in btw), passengers trying to push me out of the aisle to get to the exit of the plane, you name it, it all happened. This has nothing to do with low cost or not, you just have rude, uneducated or selfish people all over this planet. As someone else said, try to get on or off a train during rush hour, you see the same selfish and stupid behaviour. Some people just lack education, no matter what their financial situation is. As Bill Hicks said: "humanity? We're just a virus with shoes"

[airazurxtror]

I have a dream ...
Once Ryanair is well settled at BRU - wouldn't Brussels be the ideal starting point for those transatlantic flights Ryanair speaks about since a few years ?

[Atlantis]

I have a dream ...
Once Ryanair is well settled at BRU - wouldn't Brussels be the ideal starting point for those transatlantic flights Ryanair speaks about since a few years ?

I spoke about this already at the beginning of this topic

[b-west]

I have a dream ...
Once Ryanair is well settled at BRU - wouldn't Brussels be the ideal starting point for those transatlantic flights Ryanair speaks about since a few years ?

From my point of view it sounds more like a nightmare (not just speaking as a pax now)

[cnc]

I have a dream ...
Once Ryanair is well settled at BRU - wouldn't Brussels be the ideal starting point for those transatlantic flights Ryanair speaks about since a few years ?

why would BRU be an ideal place? keeping the FR model in mind (no transfers)
i know you say this just to provoke but who knows you might have a good argument for once

[b-west]

I have a dream ...
Once Ryanair is well settled at BRU - wouldn't Brussels be the ideal starting point for those transatlantic flights Ryanair speaks about since a few years ?

i know you say this just to provoke but who knows you might have a good argument for once

/off topic
To be honest, it are remarks like these that prevent me from posting too much on this forum. Are such bitchy remarks needed? And "he started it" is not a valid argument.

[andorra-airport]

I have a dream ...
Once Ryanair is well settled at BRU - wouldn't Brussels be the ideal starting point for those transatlantic flights Ryanair speaks about since a few years ?

When transatlantic flights were discussed with MOL in the past , he often said: to New York from Stansted, Prestwick and Birmingham. - Just to give you an idea, not saying that this is going to happen.

[RTM]

Nice to see a more or less civilized discussion on this topic for once. I like it.

The thing I am curious about is how Ryanair will do in an unsubsidized enviroment.
Basically Ryanair will now have to show what a flight really costs. The fact that the ticket prices seem to be inline with the competition shows two things. 1, a lot of times on this forum you can read that the legacy carriers are charging ridiculous prices, but now when the subsidies are sifted out, it turns out that is not really the case (anymore). 2, the enormous impact of the subsidies on the ticketprices, and how heavily Ryanair has to rely on those subsidies to make a profit. Even taking the higher airport taxes into account the difference is quite large.

Realistically that means the profit for Ryanair on this base is directly related to their ticket price and sales. Yet, they chose to operate on routes with an overcapacity, so I think, given their rather normal prices, they will struggle to fill their planes to break even point. Mind you they don't offer a higher yield business class to compensate for a plane not being full.
I know that Ryanair is a powerfull company with a healthy bankaccount, and their motives at this point are probably not to make money on this move right away, but rather to spoil the life of the competition, but the yield must turn around at some point, because, at the end, the business is to make money, and a base that is losing money is not sustainable in the long run.

So, how is Ryanairs reputation going to effect their succes at BRU?
Their main reputation is being cheap, so people who want to book expect a low fare. They will get a surprise when the fares turn up being not so cheap. Logically, people then go and look at other carriers, where in the past, they just simply booked because it was cheap.
The thing is, when then checking the prices on the other carriers, and seeing that the fares are more or less the same, how is Ryanairs second reputation of the hidden charges going to affect their decision. And also, allthough it sounds a bit silly, but I think there will also be an amount of people that will then chose to not fly a LCC, just to be able to say they didn't.

Will be interesting to see how this developes. What will happen once lets say Vuelling is washed out. How will that affect the ticket prices then, and how will SN react. I even think, if SN plays its cards right, they can even benefit of this. IF they play their cards right. Time will tell.

[sean1982]

I am still convinced that SN and FR can peacefully co-exist at BRU. The only thing that SN is to do is keep focusing on their long haul and use their european network to feed. They are not fishing in the same pond (mostly)

[HT-ETNW]

I'm just wondering how Ryanair will practically do this if on a Boeing 737-800 half the plane would carry 2 bags of which one needs to be checked. Seems nearly impossible and at least very impractical to have an at the door delivery, so they'll probably go on the luggage belt. Which kinda makes it unfair for people who did pay the surcharge.

Accommodating up to 270 bags **) into cargo hold is also a time factor, which will play havoc to FR's turnaround times.
Once people are allowed to bring 2 bags, they will do so.
And it also will mean lots of extra stress for security screeners ...

**): calculated as 180 pax with two bags each, minus 90 bags that will be allowed in the pax cabin.