Ryanair at Brussels Airport

[sn26567]

Welcome Vueling, welcome Ryanair. The circus is in town, indeed.

Vueling opens 11 destinations in the South of Europe, and days thereafter, Ryanair opens the SAME destinations, minus Santiago de Compostela. Don't tell me this a coincidence... Anyway, it shows the quick reaction capabilities of Ryanair. But if they are capable of launching routes so quickly, they can close them as fast if they do not perform!

[fcw]

people that transfer within the same country will keep their grandfather rights and pay irish PRSI untill the end of their 10 year period. Any crew that comes from outside belgium or new crew will have to pay the belgian social security

This is the official text:
"There is a maximum transitional period of ten years during which a person who was correctly subject to the legislation of a Member State under the old Regulations in 1408/71 can then continue to be dealt with under the legislation of that Member State after 1 May 2010 (or 1 April 2012 for Switzerland, or 1 June 2012 for Norway, Iceland or Liechtenstein), provided that their relevant situation remains unchanged or unless they ask to move to the provisions in the new legislation."

A change of base would be seen as a relevant change, I am afraid...

[sean1982]

Nope sorry, I know a few people that changed base in the same country. Grandfather rights remain. "A relevant change" is defined as moving to another country.

[cnc]

i didn't realize VY was such a threat in FR's eyes

[fcw]

Nope sorry, I know a few people that changed base in the same country. Grandfather rights remain. "A relevant change" is defined as moving to another country.

I saw a very long list, with about everything you can think about.
eg: two months unpaid leave, upgrade from F/O to capt, changes of residency, changing from part time to full time, any change to your contract...
And at the end it said these are only some examples, this list is not limiting.
So I am afraid that in court it will be difficult to keep your grandfather rights when you transfer within the same country.

[woutertheboy]

And FR's website is updated. New routes from zaventem starting at 19.99Euro. When I clicked the ad, I came on FR their flights from CRL... True Ryanair style

[flymd11]

It's not that it is a "big theat", it is just that FR wants dominance in the Belgian market. VY would also contribute to eroding yields on routes operated from CRL. It is good business strategy to try to flush them out by operating them yourself. Nothing wrong with threatening CRL a bit too and creating some competition between the two.

The passenger can gain by having both competing airlines and competing airports.

[flymd11]

But do I have to tell you that the cheaper the tickets are the more of them you get? You won't find as much of 'marginal' people on a 800 EUR flight than on a 50 EUR flights..

Time to leave the middle ages...

And yes I choose to generalize, because I experienced it twice. I have always been known as a non-RYR fan and as long as RYR doesn't change a lot I don't see that changing. Certainly not now when they are directly counter attacking OUR airlines at a premium airport, not at a LCC airport like CRL (which btw is a great airport in terms of being new and modern.)

I don't know what the obsession is with BRU being a "premium airport". It is not a bad airport but there are plenty parts of it that are very far from being a "premium" experience. I don't see the Connector, forcing passengers to walk through a shopping area, as changing that.

[Acid-drop]

So far, all we hear from Charleroi are political statements.

They did communicate : they say they expect a slight decrease, mainly because ryanair doesn't have enough planes. But They can't put numbers on it, because they are themselves quite surprised of the good numbers of this year. They also have new operators that have to show what they can do. They also say CRL should continue to grow from 2015.

Vueling opens 11 destinations in the South of Europe, and days thereafter, Ryanair opens the SAME destinations, minus Santiago de Compostela. Don't tell me this a coincidence...

If the market is really there, then let the best win.
Unless ... Vueling comes a counter-attack : move their flights to CRL

[RoMax]

Vueling comes a counter-attack : move their flights to CRL

Vueling is more of a semi-LCC like Germanwings, so that would really suprise me. It will be BRU or nothing... On the other hand, strategies are there to change, look at the this topic

[crew1990]

And what do you expect Brussels Airlines to do now witch kind of counter attack?

[flymd11]

It's a bad day for VY, but they can easily redeploy capacity.
It's an absolutely rotten day for for SN. FR is coming along to cherry pick their most profitable markets. While VY may have grown slowly and focussed on the wider Mediterranean region, FR will go after everything.

And what do you expect Brussels Airlines to do now witch kind of counter attack?

I can't see any counter attack possible except further and more radical cost cutting. With their cost base, they will get eaten alive on any of the FR/VY routes. They will probably operate the main ones such as Rome and Barcelona with smaller aircraft and at a loss.

[jan_olieslagers]

witch kind of counter attack

witch hunt indeed

(hint: "which" <=> "witch". We are supposed to write English here, not pidgin)

[crlhub]

Do not forget that full services airlines(here SN,AZ,Tp mainly)have corporate contracts with big business customers and with Business travel outlets.EU people are also concerned,they will never travel on FR or only maybe for personal reasons from time to time,when they don't have their tickets paid.
On the leisure side it is the same,TO have contracts for citytrips for ex.I doubt they will break their already signed contratcs for a few euros.
And Alicante,Malaga,Ibiza,Palma are pure 'sun destinations'.Very low yields.
To Venice they will fly to Treviso.
I do not think that full services airlines will be hurted or not too much..for the moment.

More 'Davignon' in Terzake

http://www.deredactie.be/cm/vrtnieuws/v ... =1.1788924

[Passenger]

The customer will finally decide, and yield management makes the prices very fluctuating. Furthermore, passengers nowadays are much more aware of Ryanair's surcharges and they don't accept Ryanair's company policy that one should travel without suitcase.

Flemish tv VTM, 19h news : "we did the test for Rome, February, and Ryanair is cheaper: some 80 Euro's. But that excludes our holiday luggage and we have to leave Rome at 07h00 a.m., so we're loosing the last day from our holiday".

Flemish VRT, 19h news : "we did the test for Rome, February, and Brussels Airlines is cheaper then Ryanair, some 70 Euro's".

[flymd11]

Do not forget that full services airlines(here SN,AZ,Tp mainly)have corporate contracts with big business customers and with Business travel outlets.EU people are also concerned,they will never travel on FR or only maybe for personal reasons from time to time,when they don't have their tickets paid.

The EU and some other IOs in Brussels I am familiar with have a very clear policy: the cheapest possible economy class ticket. While FR may not be option from CRL (and that's not always true either), they certainly will be a real option when they operate from BRU.

If EU people are traveling on expensive tickets when cheaper and equally convenient options are available, we all should be asking questions...

[liege-bierset]

The reporter of the Wall Street Journal was at the press conference. Some excerpts of her article are worth gold:

Deploy the landing gear on the publicity machine because the circus is coming to town! And by town we mean Brussels National Airport in Zaventem, as opposed to Brussels South/Charleroi/Gosselies/the middle of bloody nowhere/a black hole of Walloon state aid*, where the airline currently bases its Brussels-area flights.

*Select as appropriate, depending on anger and voting preferences. For the record, your correspondent is a big fan of the recently-refurbished airport.

Maybe different when reading her footnote.

[cnc]

black magic is what they need?
i doubt SN will lose much clients to FR because the cheaper options already existed before.
CRL will see a move of a couple 100k pax going to BRU.
perhaps new FR pax get introduced with the longhaul carriers at BRU at book a flight with them in the future?

[cnc]

Do not forget that full services airlines(here SN,AZ,Tp mainly)have corporate contracts with big business customers and with Business travel outlets.EU people are also concerned,they will never travel on FR or only maybe for personal reasons from time to time,when they don't have their tickets paid.

The EU and some other IOs in Brussels I am familiar with have a very clear policy: the cheapest possible economy class ticket. While FR may not be option from CRL (and that's not always true either), they certainly will be a real option when they operate from BRU.

If EU people are traveling on expensive tickets when cheaper and equally convenient options are available, we all should be asking questions...

FR will have to change their policy concerning cancelled flights then

[flymd11]

If you are an airline like SN operating at a margin of 1-2%, losing a few passengers is the difference between profit and loss. Throw FR and VY on a route, lose your ability to charge ridiculous amounts for day or 2 day returns, and your route goes from profitable to unprofitable.