Ryanair at Brussels Airport

[crlhub]

FR wants to open AMS as well:

http://www.lalibre.be/dernieres-depeche ... 9ffde2b717

Reaction of SN via Davignon:

http://www.lalibre.be/dernieres-depeche ... 9ffde2b72a

More reactions(unions,AOC,CRL etc):http://www.lalibre.be/economie/actualit ... 9ffde27fff

http://www.lesoir.be/369045/article/eco ... oncurrence

[sn26567]

Hi André,

Not that's important, but:

He came by plane, with Ryanair to CRL (another on-time arrival - trumpets).

Le Soir writes:
Pour l’anecdote, Michael O’Leary est venu à Bruxelles en provenance de Londres via ... l’Eurostar de ce mercredi matin.

Journalistic freedom or just an Irish joke?

I personally asked him the question before tghe press conference, and that's the answer I got (everyone could hear it): "Of course I came by plane, with Ryanair, and it was another on-time arrival" (and then he made the sound of the Ryanair victory trumpets).

[Inquirer]

Interesting thoughts as ever, Atlantis, and certainly much appreciated, although a few remarks from my side:
- long haul is only transatlantic then, because the rest needs gov. clearance?
- not sure BRU is the best place to start flights to the USA, I'd say a big airport around London would be more natural as there is a bigger catchment area or if you aim at feed, Dublin (which offers USA customs even!).
- feeding requires another kind of destinations than what we've seen today.
But it could certainly be an option in future, depending how the economy plays out and also what the EU-US free trade agreement has to say on aviation and of course how well their transformation turns out.
I personally still think they need to rebrand if they are genuine about becoming a non-low cost like they effectively are in (amongst others) BRU, because it's not such a good idea to sell a 30 euro return ticket from CRL to Ciampino and a 200 euro ticket to FCO like I saw in one and the same shop: the flights from the "better" bases should ideally get another name.

[fcw]

Reaction of SN via Davignon:
http://www.lalibre.be/dernieres-depeche ... 9ffde2b72a

said: Brussels Airlines paie la sécurité sociale belge alors que Ryanair, bien que les équipes et les pilotes soient en Belgique, paie la sécurité sociale irlandaise. C'est un élément de concurrence déloyale."

Mr Davignon is completely wrong. In fact it is the OPPOSITE.
FR and the Brussels based crew will have to pay Belgian social security, whilst BruAir does NOT pay the Belgian social security for the next ten years. FR, as an Irish company, will not benefit from this state aid.

[appel]

i'm guessing it's just to let people think that it's still not a level playing field

[Pocahontas]

Same goes for all BELGIAN carriers, not only Bru Air. Are you sure FR has to pay Belgian Social security? I thought only in a few years from now.

[b-west]

I started comparing SN with FR and searched for a BRU-FCO ticket in mid-may. The prices below are the exact prices charged by SN and FR with a credit card payement.

SN 15-19 May
1 Person = 99.19 Euro

I can't find a single BRU-FCO for less than 300€ with BruAir!

Single trip or return? I found a few return trips at €99 to €130 with both SN and FR, looked for a flight late march. Still, the one thing SN will probably have to do is get rid of 400+ euro tickets for same day or next day returns. FR just charges the same price regardless which day you come back.

[fcw]

Same goes for all BELGIAN carriers, not only Bru Air. Are you sure FR has to pay Belgian Social security? I thought only in a few years from now.

If you transfer from CRL to BRU, you have to pay Belgian security.
The EU law is very strict, as soon as anything changes in your situation, you have to comply with the new rules.

[Pocahontas]

Ok thanks, I did not know that.

[fcw]

one thing SN will probably have to do is get rid of 400+ euro tickets for same day or next day returns. FR just charges the same price regardless which day you come back.

Exactly, and loosing these high yield tickets, even if it is only two or three per flight is going to hurt a lot.
3*200(flights/week)*52*300= 9.360.000€ a year!!!

[sn26567]

The reporter of the Wall Street Journal was at the press conference. Some excerpts of her article are worth gold:

Deploy the landing gear on the publicity machine because the circus is coming to town! And by town we mean Brussels National Airport in Zaventem, as opposed to Brussels South/Charleroi/Gosselies/the middle of bloody nowhere/a black hole of Walloon state aid*, where the airline currently bases its Brussels-area flights.

Ryanair chief executive Michael O'Leary was actually in rather restrained form in making the announcement this morning. After going for one of the oldest publicity tricks in the book – reserving a room much too small for his press conference – he explained how his discount airline was so “so special, so wonderful, so brilliant, and yet so humble.”

In fact the tiny room, combined with the TV guys lifting their cameras up above the crush, was very reminiscent of the scramble to get your hand baggage into the lockers when flying on the yellow peasant wagon of the skies, as one regular calls it.

http://blogs.wsj.com/brussels/2013/11/2 ... t-near-eu/

[Passenger]

FR and the Brussels based crew will have to pay Belgian social security, whilst BruAir does NOT pay the Belgian social security for the next ten years. FR, as an Irish company, will not benefit from this state aid.

That is, IF Ryanair pays the local social security.

Just last month, Ryanair was condemned by a French court for violating the French labour law. Ryanair's ground staff at Bordeaux (even from the downtown office) had an Irish labour contract, thus paying social security in Ireland (which happens to be extremely low for airlines…).

Total damage for the French taxpayers: 9 mio Euro (amount that also can be regarded as falsifying competition).

http://www.lemonde.fr/economie/article/ ... _3234.html

[sdbelgium]

Just last month, Ryanair was condemned by a French court for violating the French labour law. Ryanair's ground staff at Bordeaux (even from the downtown office) had an Irish labour contract, thus paying social security in Ireland (which happens to be extremely low for airlines…).

Something Air France and Cityjet have been in trial for as well - and they had to pay a fine of 100.000 euros, just a few weeks ago.

http://www.reuters.com/finance/stocks/A ... le/2843760

[HT-ETNW]

How much will CRL suffer from all the extra seats that FR is putting up for sale at BRU ?
-HT

[sdbelgium]

He came with his own private B738, the learjet was occuppied for crew transport

Indeed, he didn't come by train at all. Left DUB at 07.00 this morning and he flew back in his own B737-800 as RYR1. Take-off was at 13.30LT in Charleroi (EI-ENK).

[Atlantis]

In a nutshell we can say that all carriers are warned now and to level up there service. So maybe it was good that this happend now as kind of a wake up call.

The pax will chose. The one who will fly cheap, choice enough, the one who wants some service, choice enough.
For everybody there will be something.

[fcw]

FR and the Brussels based crew will have to pay Belgian social security, whilst BruAir does NOT pay the Belgian social security for the next ten years. FR, as an Irish company, will not benefit from this state aid.

That is, IF Ryanair pays the local social security.
Just last month, Ryanair was condemned by a French court for violating the French labour law. Ryanair's ground staff at Bordeaux (even from the downtown office) had an Irish labour contract, thus paying social security in Ireland (which happens to be extremely low for airlines…).
Total damage for the French taxpayers: 9 mio Euro (amount that also can be regarded as falsifying competition).
http://www.lemonde.fr/economie/article/ ... _3234.html

This has nothing to do with the EU law, which is in force today. This is a lawsuit where FR argued that French law was not applicable to crew under Irish contract, but based in MRS. As Sdbelgium pointed out, Air France and Cityjet understood the law in the same way as FR did. They were all proven wrong in court.
In the mean time however a strict EU law, which regulates the social security issues for aircrew, came into forse last year.

[Passenger]

How much will CRL suffer from all the extra seats that FR is putting up for sale at BRU ?
-HT

Hi HT-ETNW, I will tell you as soon as Luc De Wilde, senior aviation journalist at Travel Magazine, publishes his thoughts about this move. So far, all we hear from Charleroi are political statements.

Meanwhile: tonight on Canvas (Flemish television, 20h): live interview with Etienne Davignon, president Brussels Airlines. First questions: what does this mean for Brussels Airlines? Will prices go down?

[sean1982]

Same goes for all BELGIAN carriers, not only Bru Air. Are you sure FR has to pay Belgian Social security? I thought only in a few years from now.

If you transfer from CRL to BRU, you have to pay Belgian security.
The EU law is very strict, as soon as anything changes in your situation, you have to comply with the new rules.

No fcw, people that transfer within the same country will keep their grandfather rights and pay irish PRSI untill the end of their 10 year period. Any crew that comes from outside belgium or new crew will have to pay the belgian social security

[Flanker2]

After seeing the first FR fares out of BRU, I'm a bit skeptical.
48,90 EUR one-way is a long way from the 15-30€ fares in CRL.

Of course that is cheaper than SN as for FR this will be more or less a standard average fare, while with SN, it's the advertised fare that you can't find when booking.

I'll be enjoying my CRL-CIA-CRL same-day return trip next week, 80 euro's including car rental.
And a good pizza along the way, with antipasti and dessert.
Thank you MOL, you make it happen.

It's too late mr. Davignon... for MOL these 10 new routes are only a first test.
If they work, expect them on new sectors, and without any doubt to the UK, France, Italy and BUD.
Now you will have your hands full keeping your head above the waters, you won't have funds left for longhaul expansion. Sadly, SN is in a trap and only god can get it out of there.

BRU can't say they knew....just last week they were selling their airport to Vueling. If they pretend that they knew, Vueling would be very unpleased. But 200 flights a week will be a huge boost for BRU in landing fees alone.

Who's going to do the handling?

Welcome Vueling, welcome Ryanair. The circus is in town, indeed.
See you later, I'm off to pick up my family in CRL