Brussels Airlines : pilots strike looming

[sean1982]

I've never "bashed" SN. I've defended FR against untrue claims. Would I consider to work for SN? Yes I would, I would even be prepared to lose some wage for it, but not on a temporary contract.

Where would I go if I left FR? NAX, EZY, BA, KLM, emirates to name a few. Im happy at FR but only cause the big picture adds up, not out of pure loyalty. Im not particulary tied to belgium as my partner is commuting.

If people would start leaving the company at a faster rate then they can replace them, then the management would really do something. If you were LH now flightmate, would you take over?

[FlightMate]

If you were LH now flightmate, would you take over?

No. But I think their decision is already made, and the strike won't influence too much their decision.
On the other hand, I don't think LH will let SN got bankrupt, having 45% of the shares, plus 100m euros as a loan. They don't want to lose it all.

My bet would be a resale, à la BMI.

[Inquirer]

Who said Lufthansa paid the loan out in one go?
I would think it would come in slices, provided the required progress is made, similar to how the EU (Germany) keeps Greece on a life line?

I am not going to comment on whether the causes are just or not, but I advice you not to expect to be able to review the whole social deal: be happy with some modest progress offered, lock it in, and quickly move on, hoping everybody forgets about this by the time summer bookings have to be made.

I know from experience that as strikes drag on, expectations are constantly raised and those can never be met in the end, so you may be out for days, only to be very disappointed with the end result. The difference in results from a 1 day stike vs. a 1 week long strike is known to be close to zero for employees.

[FlightMate]

I honestly don't think the expectations are set too high here.

If SN can't pay back the salaries to 100%, then people will just work 80%. That was the initial agreement.
Not retiring the >58 is easy as well. We're talking about 8 pilots now. Maybe a few more in the coming years. And most won't be working till 65, I believe.
About leave, SN has got to respect the law.
If they can't, they need to hire more pilots.

[letscruise]

De Tijd often has more in depth information and is mentioning 4 breaking points in the negotiation:
http://www.tijd.be/nieuws/ondernemingen ... 9-3085.art

You cannot keep 6000 passengers as a hostage for those reasons.
They pay pilot's wage and end up with anger and frustration missing important meetings, holiday connections….
As pilot,look in the mirror and admit that you are responsible for huge economical losses, passenger dissatisfaction, bad reputation of the company and Belgium aviation in general.
You have a job with good salary and prestige, (there are pro’s and con’s on every job) and passengers expect a minimum sense of responsibility.

Going on strike strike is actually an incredibly stupid and selfish thing to do for those reasons in the actual economical climate.

[Inquirer]

As I said, I am not going to get involved in this conflict, but just pointing out that what has been on the table by now is likely going to be fairly close to whatever agreement you will have to come to in the end.
Not because I say do, but because that is what history has shown me.
Maybe there's just no money for your requests indeed?
In that case I t's like trying to rob a beggar, holding a gun to his head repeating: "your money or your life".
I don't know, but have the unions calculated the costs of their requests and indicated where they would pull the money from? Otherwise, I fear some ego tripper may be taking you for a ride here, regardless whether it's a just cause or not. Be pragmatic, would be my advice.
Enough said.

[fcw]

I am not going to comment on whether the causes are just or not, but I advice you not to expect to be able to review the whole social deal: be happy with some modest progress offered, lock it in, and quickly move on,

Pilots don't want to review the whole social deal, they only ask that the deal is respected, no more no less.
They agreed to work 10% less for 10% less salary, the management expect them to work the same, if not more, for 20% less.

As for LH: BruAir pilots are the cheapest of the group and they have an excellent safety record, so LH might not buy BruAir, but they could employ the pilots under a German Wings contract.
LH only needs a small BruAir for AFI operations, EU ops can be flown by German Wings Belgium.
The management jobs at BruAir are in a much bigger danger than are the pilot jobs.

[fcw]

Maybe there's just no money for your requests indeed?
In that case I t's like trying to rob a beggar, holding a gun to his head repeating: "your money or your life".
I don't know, but have the unions calculated the costs of their requests and indicated where they would pull the money from? Otherwise, I fear some ego tripper may be taking you for a ride here, regardless whether it's a just cause or not. Be pragmatic, would be my advice.
Enough said.

The only request is: respect the plan! If there is no money to respect the beyond 2012-2013 plan, then there is a problem with het plan itself, but are the pilots to blame for this?
Maybe the pilots know the plan is not working and they probably told the management. As management was ignoring them, the only way to show their frustration is this strike. This is exactly what happened at the end of Sabena. A big majority of the ex-Sabena pilots are now earning twice or three times the salary their BruAir collegues earn.

[sean1982]

A big majority of the ex-Sabena pilots are now earning twice or three times the salary their BruAir collegues earn.

That might be true, but how much did they have to sacrifice for it vs. SN pilots keeping their comfortable life in Belgium? How much are they willing to sacrifice for a better family/social life?

[fcw]

A big majority of the ex-Sabena pilots are now earning twice or three times the salary their BruAir collegues earn.

That might be true, but how much did they have to sacrifice for it vs. SN pilots keeping their comfortable life in Belgium? How much are they willing to sacrifice for a better family/social life?

Well, I think it is clear that "beyond 2012-2013" is as far as they want to go.

[EBAW_flyer]

I hope there still will be a beyond 2013 if they continue like this!

[airazurxtror]

It seems that all SN flights have been cancelled this morning, including the one to Kenya :

http://www.lesoir.be/363817/article/eco ... lle-direct

[Zorba]

There is an agreement between the unions and management. All actions will be cancelled, at least until friday.

[b720]

They should be fired! SN should hire pilots who want to work.
on a separate note, was at Terminal A this morning, the line was from the transit agent desk
facing gate 40 all up beyond gate 50!! 3 or 4 lines not just 1 behind the other..Hundreds of people..
many looked Asian, I guess they had landed on THAI and Hainan and found out that their connecting
flights are cancelled!! people who would have been better off staying home had SN communicated the strike of today to those airlines earlier.. anyway, 2 agents only were rebooking those stranded people! SN could have at least fully manned the desks, room for at least 6-8 agents! Scandalous, If that happens to me, I would NEVER fly such an airline again.

[teddybAIR]

They should be fired! SN should hire pilots who want to work.

Ah, I see we have commenced on a constructive note Ever considered how disruptive to operations your 'strategy' would be? How would you staff short term flights...let's say the ones you need to fly today/tomorrow/next week?
I'm happy to read that they have reached a temporary agreement and that strikes are certainly suspended until friday.
Regarding the brand damage that has been done due to the strike. I think it is beyond any doubt that significant brand damage has been done. Focus now has to be on how to restore it and prevent further damage to be done. That starts with clear communication strategies and real solutions for stranded passengers. I'd rather see that as opposed to lenghty discussions about the appointment of blame to a single stakeholder. Blame for strikes is always shared between all conflicting stakeholders and you can only come to a long term solution if everybody around the table starts thinking in terms of what s/he can do to solve the problem at hand, instead of focussing on the concessions that require from your so called 'opponent'.

[letscruise]

In the mean time, some delegates started a nice initiative, a kind of "sponsor scheme" for pilots :



Please pass this form to as many people as you know!

Help Feed BRUSSELS AIRLINES Pilots

It's just not right. Hundreds of pilots in our very own country are
living at or just below the 7,000 Euros salary line and are now forced to
work 90% with 90% salary. And if that wasn't bad
enough, many of them may go several days without a paycheck if
they are forced by Brussels Airlines management to strike.

But now you can help. For about 215 Euros a day you can help keep a pilot
economically viable during duration of strike.

215 Euros a day may not seem like a lot of money to you, but
to a pilot, it could mean the difference between a vacation fishing
or a Caribbean cruise.


"HOW WILL I KNOW I"M HELPING?"

Each month, you will receive a complete financial report on the crew member you
sponsor. Detailed information about his or her stocks, bonds, and real-estate
holdings will be mailed to your home. You will be able to watch your pilot's net worth
grow. You'll also get information on how they chose to invest their million Euro
lump sum they get upon their retirement.

"HOW WILL THEY KNOW I'M HELPING?"

Your pilot will be told that her or she has a SPECIAL FRIEND that just wants to help.
Although the pilot won't know your name, he or she will be able to make collect calls to your
home via a special operator in case they need more funds.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
I want to help!! In the event of a strike, I would like to
sponsor the crew member listed below.

___CAPTAIN
___FIRST OFFICER
___AN ENTIRE FLIGHT CREW
___BAE146 AVRO CREW MEMBER
___A320 CREW MEMBER
___A330 CREW MEMBER
___Please apply my donation to the crew member most in need.


Please charge the account listed below 215 Euros per day (or 275 Euros for
A330 crew members) for the duration of the strike. Please send
me a picture of the crew member I have sponsored, along with a set of
"wings" and my very own "new" red S.C.O.P.E. badge (while supplies last)

<> Mastercard <> Visa <> American Express

Account Number:________________________________ Expiration
Date:_________________________
Signature:______________________________________

Send Completed Forms to the helptofeedbrusselsairlinepilots@mail.com

Note: Sponsors agree not to contact the crew member sponsored or their
families in person or by other means including, but not limited to, phone
calls, letters, email, or third parties. Contributions made are not tax
deductible. In the event of no strike action taken, sponsors agree to a
one time administration charge of 500 Euros to cover administration costs of
this program.

[teddybAIR]

Hey letscruise...funny post, but do you have anything to add or are you simply gonna leave it at that?

[cnc]

omg :p
i have yet to find the first SN pilot earning 7k a month though

[FlightMate]

Well, let's hope this problem is solved, now.
And that management will understand that if they want to make money (or lose less money), they shouldn't focus on cutting cost on employees, which are already at the lower-end, compared to other countries.
Time to focus on a good revenue strategy, being inventive, why not with fiscality? Take example on ryanair and other successful airlines...

B720, you seem so angry, while not flying SN. Why? Compassion for the other passengers?

Let's fire everyone? Then SN will go bankrupt tomorrow. Is that what you want?

[Inquirer]

Good to see commen sense has finally prevailed at both ends: better a tentative deal on an acceptable compromise, than playing Rambo and all being out of a job in a couple of months because you run out of shareholder's funding.

My favourite source De Tijd has some more information on the airline, but unfortunately it's in the subscriber's section of the website: seems like B.air was on course for a pretty good year's end result, so it would be a bit silly to risk ruining it so near the finish, as it's always easier to get concessions from a profitable business, than it is from one that isn't.