Horror flight HU491 Beijing - Brussels / Hainan Airlines

[Araneus]

The flight of November 16th 2013 from Beijing to Brussels became a horror flight for the passengers on board. I had my father in law on board of this plane bringing back my 9 months old son.

This morning around 5:15 the flight was still scheduled to land at 6:35. After a brief time in a holding pattern above Antwerp they were diverted to Zürich. Trying to get information in Brussels Airport was extremely difficult at that moment. Conditions were indeed not ideal, visibility being around 200 m. It seems the pilots and/or plane from Hainan Airlines are not certified to make a cat. III Ils landing. Most of the planes were landing at that moment, proven by the website of Brussels Airlines and passengers streaming out at arrivals.

From that moment a long string of disinformation and lies started to come from the people of Hainan Airlines. The plane had landed in Zürich by now. It is for me difficult to understand to fly that far while Schiphol, Eindhoven and Luxemburg had good visibility. They claim that they know Zurich quite well and it was easier to handle the problem from there for them (easier probably just means cheaper for them).
Visibility never reached the required minimum during the day and the plane stayed in Zurich.

Because people were getting (extremely) angry they were driven out by the Swiss police to be dumped in the terminal with very little information around 13:00. Up to then they had not received any information on board, they even didn't provide drinks/food. I asked the question whether my baby had food, milk and diapers for this delay. They confirmed this, but this was also a lie. Eventually they checked into an hotel around 16:00. From that moment they had to take care of themselves. No representative of Hainan Airlines was present in the hotel to help them. A lot of the people on this plane can not speak English, German or French and are completely confused.

I kept insisting they would transfer passengers to other available flights. There are 4 flights a day from Swissair/Brussels Airlines from Zurich to Brussels. They didn't want to do this because they claimed that they could not land because of the weather, even when given proof on the contrary.

Around 18:00 we finally got a confirmation that they could but some people on the 21:00 flight. By that moment most people that were complaining already left for home. Only 3 adults and my baby came to Brussels on that flight. I had to find my father in law and the baby in the hotel in Zurich because they didn't have the room number nor a representative available in Zürich to give this information.

While constantly discussing with the persons from Hainan Airlines with the plane still sitting on the tarmac in Zurich they started checking in the passengers for the return flight to Beijing, no delay indicated! A person from Swissport comfirmed that they lied about the departure time for that flight. Once everyone was checked in the delay was 1h30min. With the plane still standing in Zurich they admitted this was not correct. Later the flight time was changed to 7:30 the next day and all passengers returned from the terminal. Because of the weather conditions expected tomorrow this probably is also not correct.

All information we obtained about the fate of the passengers on board came from passengers on board of the flight by use of their cellphones. Of course, batteries running low, information became less available. We didn't receive any piece of information of Hainan Airlines about what was going on. What they said were lies and proven to be lies.

Now they have a flight at 7:30, they are not certain about this time. A second flight with the plane now sitting in Zürich is scheduled to leave at 12:30. Information from Swissport is clear, the flight from Zürich to Brussels will not leave before 14:00 because of mandatory resting time for the pilots.

Tomorrow will be a big mess for these passengers in Brussels!

[AirOpinion]

Amsterdam is not a good airport for a diversions. I've heard numorous reports about handling problems when you're simply a visitor. And bad weather in the taf.
Eindhoven is too small for an A330 ops.
Luxemburg could have been an option but probably no history with that airport..

I can understand the diversion to Zürich. A descision on the safe side certainly if you know that Haiban has a base there. However pax treatment could have been better that's for sure It seemed Hainan Zürich was not up for there extra flight

Heavy weather tends to have an impact on aviation it's something a pax should be aware of. Don't underestimate the logistic problems that come with such situations... Hotac, handling contracts, safety problems, flight duty times, special pax handling.... and so on.

[quixoticguide]

Hainan no longer flies to Zurich, but more hotels around here then LUX or EIN.

[sean1982]

Amsterdam is not a good airport for a diversions. I've heard numorous reports about handling problems when you're simply a visitor. And bad weather in the taf.
Eindhoven is too small for an A330 ops.
Luxemburg could have been an option but probably no history with that airport..

I can understand the diversion to Zürich. A descision on the safe side certainly if you know that Haiban has a base there. However pax treatment could have been better that's for sure It seemed Hainan Zürich was not up for there extra flight

Heavy weather tends to have an impact on aviation it's something a pax should be aware of. Don't underestimate the logistic problems that come with such situations... Hotac, handling contracts, safety problems, flight duty times, special pax handling.... and so on.

What a load of crap ... Simply training your pilots to fly CATIII approaches AND maintaining the aircraft well would do! Yesterday was not in the least heavy weather. This is scandalous!

[Araneus]

Zürich used to be a base of Hainan. Now they don't have someone there. Passengers were left on their own in the terminal in Zürich, most of them not able to speak a english/french/dutch. Also they staff preferred to lie to the passengers, also to the passengers checking in for the return flight. They were yesterday promising flights at 7:30 and 12:30 they knew perfectly well that this was not possible. The flights have now extra delays to 16:00 and 16:30. They knew this yesterday!

I can not forgive them letting my baby without drink/food/diapers for more than 6 hours in a closed plane in Zürich. I followed the TAF the whole day and there was basically no opportunity yesterday to fly back. Swissport kept telling lies about the meteo to us. Untill 18:00 staff of Hainanairlines refused to admit everyone was landing normally at Zaventem.
When I asked to speak at the manager of Hainanairlines this was not possible. Eventually it turned out the manager was there but he refused to take matter in hands. The manager was standing right in front of me but didn't admit he was the manager! It was a complete chaos and on top of it, they created most of it themselves! Again today, they managed to create a load of problems for the passengers on HU492 and HU492A to Beijing.

I will see what I can do, but I think I will take legal action because of the neglict to the passengers in Zürich!

[cnc]

in the handling contract with flightcare they had OST as diversion station, not sure if that option is gone now with swissport and perhaps OST had too much fog too

[Nevihta]

It's really incredible that something like that can happen...
The way they handle the situation is really scary, but aviation wise, it's really incredible that the crew/aircraft isn't certified... It's not like fog is a surprise in Belgium. I really cannot understand such amateurism...
Moreover, it already happened that there was a translator in such flights because the english level of the crew was to poor, problem being that the translator isn't a professional of aviation

[Araneus]

At 6:00 conditions in OST were not good enough, visability being only 200 m. Later that day it was 3000 m. At that time the plane was already sitting on the tarmac in Zürich.

This disaster has cost Hainanairlines a lot of money. They dispatched a second plane to Brussels, the deviation, ... But more importantly they got a lot of bad publicity.

At a certain time a became so angry on them that I went to inform to passengers for the flight to Beijing about the truth and about the constant lies of Hainanairlines. I think none of these passengers will ever take a flight with hainanairlines anymore. They are a complete disaster.

[AirOpinion]

Moreover, it already happened that there was a translator in such flights because the english level of the crew was to poor, problem being that the translator isn't a professional of aviation

It's standard procedure but all of them are captains, some of them even flew with Sabena.

This disaster has cost Hainanairlines a lot of money. They dispatched a second plane to Brussels, the deviation, ... But more importantly they got a lot of bad publicity.

At a certain time a became so angry on them that I went to inform to passengers for the flight to Beijing about the truth and about the constant lies of Hainanairlines. I think none of these passengers will ever take a flight with hainanairlines anymore. They are a complete disaster.

What are you going to sue them for? With the hotel accomodation and a spare A330 all the way from China... what else, except better communication, could the airline have done for the passengers. Legally they are not obliged to rebook all passengers onto other flights. I do feel that these passengers deserve a compensation for the whole situation.

Hainan is a 5 star airline... this is an unlucky situation. I feel for you, however I believe it's just bad luck.

What concerns the RVR at the moment EBBR ILS 25L CATIIIb charts state 0 - 150R / Company. If I'm correct that means DH 0ft but with an RVR of 150m... which was a times certainly not the case in EBBR yesterday.

[sean1982]

So why did nobody else divert yesterday?

[AirOpinion]

So why did nobody else divert yesterday?

I looked up the wx for yesterday... I understand that the airline would not send that plane back to BRU, the station where it had just diverted from, since Weather did or was not going to improve at all.

Some captains try, others don't... what is right, what is wrong? From experience I know that this is a very personal opinion...

TAF:

Code: Select all

T	16/11/2013 17:00->	
TAF EBBR 161700Z 1618/1724 VRB02KT 0200 FG BKN001
         TEMPO 1709/1712 0800 BKN002
         BECMG 1712/1714 3000 BR SCT008=
FT	16/11/2013 11:00->	
TAF EBBR 161100Z 1612/1718 VRB02KT 0200 FG BKN001
         TEMPO 1612/1617 0800 BKN002
         BECMG 1712/1714 3000 BR SCT008=
FT	16/11/2013 05:00->	
TAF EBBR 160500Z 1606/1712 VRB02KT 0200 FG VV001
         BECMG 1607/1609 1200 BR BKN003
         TEMPO 1612/1616 4500 BKN008
         BECMG 1616/1618 0800 FG BKN002
         BECMG 1619/1621 0200 VV001
         BECMG 1707/1709 1200 BR BKN002=

METAR:

Code: Select all

SA	16/11/2013 21:20->	
METAR EBBR 162120Z VRB02KT 0200 R25L/0550N R25R/0550N R01/0600N
           FG VV001 02/02 Q1029 NOSIG=
SA	16/11/2013 20:50->	
METAR EBBR 162050Z VRB01KT 0200 R25L/0500N R25R/0500N R01/0500N
           FG VV001 02/02 Q1029 NOSIG=
SA	16/11/2013 20:20->	
METAR EBBR 162020Z VRB01KT 0200 R25L/0400N R25R/0450V0650D
           R01/0450N FG VV001 02/02 Q1029 NOSIG=
SA	16/11/2013 19:50->	
METAR EBBR 161950Z VRB01KT 0200 R25L/0500V0650N R25R/0550V0900D
           R01/0500V0800U FG VV001 02/02 Q1029 NOSIG=
SA	16/11/2013 19:20->	
METAR EBBR 161920Z VRB01KT 0150 R25L/0500N R25R/M0050V0450D
           R01/0500N FG VV001 02/02 Q1029 NOSIG=
SA	16/11/2013 18:50->	
METAR EBBR 161850Z VRB01KT 0150 R25L/0400N R25R/0500N R01/0450N
           FG VV001 02/02 Q1029 NOSIG=
SA	16/11/2013 18:20->	
METAR EBBR 161820Z 14002KT 0150 R25L/0450N R25R/0400V0700D
           R01/0400N FG VV001 02/02 Q1029 NOSIG=
SA	16/11/2013 17:50->	
METAR EBBR 161750Z VRB01KT 0150 R25L/0350N R25R/0375V0500N
           R01/0350N FG VV001 02/02 Q1030 NOSIG=
SA	16/11/2013 17:20->	
METAR EBBR 161720Z VRB01KT 0100 R25L/0375N R25R/0400N R01/0350N
           FG VV001 03/02 Q1030 NOSIG=
SA	16/11/2013 16:50->	
METAR EBBR 161650Z VRB01KT 0100 R25L/0375N R25R/0450N R01/0375N
           FG VV001 03/02 Q1030 NOSIG=
SA	16/11/2013 16:20->	
METAR EBBR 161620Z VRB01KT 0100 R25L/0400N R25R/0500N R01/0375N
           FG VV001 03/03 Q1030 NOSIG=
SA	16/11/2013 15:50->	
METAR EBBR 161550Z 00000KT 0100 R25L/0350N R25R/0375N R01/0375N
           FG VV001 03/03 Q1030 NOSIG=
SA	16/11/2013 15:20->	
METAR EBBR 161520Z VRB01KT 0100 R25L/0300N R25R/0400N R01/0300N
           FG VV001 03/03 Q1030 NOSIG=
SA	16/11/2013 14:50->	
METAR EBBR 161450Z VRB01KT 0100 R25L/0300N R25R/0325N R01/0300N
           FG VV001 03/02 Q1030 NOSIG=
SA	16/11/2013 14:20->	
METAR EBBR 161420Z VRB01KT 0100 R25L/0275N R25R/0325N R01/0325N
           FG VV001 03/02 Q1031 NOSIG=
SA	16/11/2013 13:50->	
METAR EBBR 161350Z VRB01KT 0150 R25L/0300N R25R/0325N R01/0325N
           FG VV001 03/02 Q1031 NOSIG=
SA	16/11/2013 13:20->	
METAR EBBR 161320Z 28001KT 0250 R25L/0300N R25R/0375N R01/0400V0650N
           FG VV001 03/02 Q1031 NOSIG=
SA	16/11/2013 12:50->	
METAR EBBR 161250Z VRB02KT 0250 R25L/0350N R25R/0400N R01/0550N
           FG VV001 02/02 Q1031 NOSIG=
SA	16/11/2013 12:20->	
METAR EBBR 161220Z 00000KT 0300 R25L/0450N R25R/0500V0900D
           R01/0450N FG VV001 03/02 Q1031 BECMG 0600 FG BKN002=
SA	16/11/2013 11:50->	
METAR EBBR 161150Z VRB01KT 0300 R25L/0375N R25R/0700N R01/0375N
           FG VV001 03/02 Q1032 BECMG 0600 FG BKN002=
SA	16/11/2013 11:20->	
METAR EBBR 161120Z VRB01KT 0200 R25L/0450N R25R/0700V1000N
           R01/0400N FG VV001 02/01 Q1032 BECMG 0600 FG BKN002=
SA	16/11/2013 10:50->	
METAR EBBR 161050Z 00000KT 0200 R25L/0375N R25R/1000V1600D
           R01/0400N FG VV001 02/02 Q1032 BECMG 0600 FG BKN002=
SA	16/11/2013 10:20->	
METAR EBBR 161020Z VRB01KT 0200 R25L/0350N R25R/0800V1600U
           R01/0400N FG VV001 02/01 Q1032 BECMG 0600 FG BKN002=
SA	16/11/2013 09:50->	
METAR EBBR 160950Z VRB02KT 0150 R25L/0400N R25R/0450V1500U
           R01/0400N FG VV001 02/01 Q1032 NOSIG=
SA	16/11/2013 09:20->	
METAR EBBR 160920Z 19003KT 140V220 0100 R25L/0325N R25R/0350V0650N
           R01/0325N FG VV001 02/01 Q1032 NOSIG=
SA	16/11/2013 08:50->	
METAR EBBR 160850Z 17003KT 140V200 0100 R25L/0300N R25R/0325V0600N
           R01/0300N FG VV001 02/01 Q1032 NOSIG=
SA	16/11/2013 08:20->	
METAR EBBR 160820Z VRB01KT 0100 R25L/0350N R25R/0350N R01/0325N
           FG VV001 01/01 Q1033 NOSIG=
SA	16/11/2013 07:50->	
METAR EBBR 160750Z VRB02KT 0100 R25L/0325N R25R/0300V0500N
           R01/0325N FG VV001 01/01 Q1033 NOSIG=
SA	16/11/2013 07:20->	
METAR EBBR 160720Z VRB01KT 0100 R25L/0350N R25R/0400N R01/0325N
           FG VV001 01/01 Q1032 NOSIG=
SA	16/11/2013 06:50->	
METAR EBBR 160650Z 22001KT 0100 R25L/0450N R25R/0500N R01/0450N
           FG VV001 01/01 Q1032 NOSIG=
SA	16/11/2013 06:20->	
METAR EBBR 160620Z VRB02KT 0150 R25L/0550N R25R/0450V0750N
           R01/0500N FG VV001 01/01 Q1032 NOSIG=
SA	16/11/2013 05:50->	
METAR EBBR 160550Z VRB02KT 0200 R25L/0400N R25R/0450V0750N
           R01/0450N FG VV001 01/01 Q1032 NOSIG=
SA	16/11/2013 05:20->	
METAR EBBR 160520Z VRB01KT 0200 R25L/0400N R25R/0450N R01/0400N
           FG VV001 02/01 Q1032 NOSIG=
SA	16/11/2013 04:50->	
METAR EBBR 160450Z VRB02KT 0200 R25L/0400N R25R/0400N R01/0400N
           FG VV001 02/01 Q1032 NOSIG=
SA	16/11/2013 04:20->	
METAR EBBR 160420Z VRB01KT 0200 R25L/0400N R25R/0400N R01/0400N
           FG VV001 02/02 Q1031 NOSIG=
SA	16/11/2013 03:50->	
METAR EBBR 160350Z VRB01KT 0200 R25L/0450N R25R/0400N R01/0450N
           FG VV001 02/02 Q1031 NOSIG=
SA	16/11/2013 03:20->	
METAR EBBR 160320Z VRB02KT 0200 R25L/0450N R25R/0400N R01/0450N
           FG VV001 02/02 Q1031 NOSIG=
SA	16/11/2013 02:50->	
METAR EBBR 160250Z 00000KT 0200 R25L/0325N R25R/0400N R01/0400N
           FG VV001 02/02 Q1031 NOSIG=
SA	16/11/2013 02:20->	
METAR EBBR 160220Z 12002KT 0200 R25L/0375N R25R/0400N R01/0300V0400N
           FG VV001 02/02 Q1031 NOSIG=

[Araneus]

This captain didn't even have the option to return. They lack the rating for a cat. III IILS approach. The whole day the visability was just not enough for them.

The most terrible thing is letting the passangers, already having a flight of more than 11 hours, sit for an extra 7 hours in the plane while standing still. They didn't provide food, drinks or information to these poor passengers. Eventually they resorted in just taking food and drinks from the galleys. Of course this was not enough for all the people on board. The crew from that moment started hiding from the passengers and not providing any service at all.
The situation went quite scary after about 6 hours and the security of Zürich airport came in the plane. From that moment they were left for more than 1 hour in the terminal. Eventually they were waiting outside waiting to be driven to the hotel by shuttle bus. All 200 passengers where shuttled to the hotel, about 10 at a time. All this time almost no information was available to them.

I could arrange after a long discussion a fligth from Zürich to Brussels for my father in law and baby. Some other passengers paid a large sum for this flight. All the others where flown back to Brussels one day later around and landed around 15:00.

Return flights from Brussels to Beijing were yesterday announced for 7:30 and 12:30. They left at 17:00 and 19:00. These flights again were delayed multiple times.

Hainan airlines is just not capable of handling such situations. I presume it is best they stay in China and concentrate on bugging the Chinese people there. A flight to Europe is probably to highly aimed for their poor quality standards!

[sn26567]

I guess that such incidents might seriously erode the 5-star status that Hainan long-haul currently enjoys at Skytrax, both in C and in Y class (http://www.airlinequality.com/Airlines/H4.htm). They even still have a 4-star rating for the handling of delays and cancellations and 5-star for arrival assistance!

In the Skytrax forum, you can find many negative reviews which should pull down the 5-star rating: http://www.airlinequality.com/Forum/hainan.htm

I suggest, Araneus, that you add your experience right there in the forum. Just copy and paste what you have written here!

[Outsync]

The CAAC prohibits CAT3 landings, this is not a HU decision.

But other then this indeed the service seemed to be shit.

[stevenc]

As Hainan will claim bad weather, no compensation other than hotel + food + alternative transport is due.
Agree on bad decision to divert to ZRH + bad information = big failure. Write them a firm letter stating the facts and how you feel about this. Maybe you get an answer.

[Araneus]

So, compensation is possible based on the fact that they left the people on the plane for more than 6 hours in Zürich, without food/drinks. The first food they received was in the hotel around 19:00. They ate the last meal on the plane before landing probably around 4:30 in the morning. That's a long time without food!

[rix]

It's how they deal with unexpected/tricky situations that sets airlines apart.
Thanks for posting, Araneus. Now we know in which category Hainan lies...