Cross country flying

[Elpiloto]

Dear all,

I have been searching for the correct definition of cross country flying, In Belgium??

Searching the AIP I cannot find anything which contains definitions about this and searching the internet, you will find a lot off UK or US rules but not from Belgium.

The reason I would like to know is if I can do my switch from CPL to ATPL....

Thank you.

[jan_olieslagers]

And what is the relation between cross-country flying (whatever that may exactly mean) and upgrading one license to the next level up?
Also, why confine the license upgrade to a single FIR, when icao-defined licenses are today handled at easa level?

I'd like to be of help but feel much confused by the question. Please elaborate.

Put another way: of course there is no cross-country flying within Belgian FIR. Enter our tiny FIR one side, call up Brussels information or Brussels control or whoever, say a proper hello to them, then squeeze your nose, take a diagonal look at your map and instruments so as to confirm your whereabouts, take a sip of drink, explain the whereabouts to your pax, perhaps point out the Atomium or the Waterloo Lion, and the next thing you know is you've left our FIR the other way and should hurry calling the next service. This country is simply too small - you can't cross-fly it without passing its boundaries.

[Elpiloto]

First off all, if you want to upgrade your CPL to an ATPL you have to have certain flying hours of which 1500hrs total time, 250hrs PIC and 200hrs cross country...

Now, I am NOT talking about flying just in Belgium, I am talking about a Belgian license!!!!

So, what I need is the exact deifinition of Cross country flying??
when do they look at a flight as cross country, that's all I need....

I know Belgium is small... everytime I take off, in a B737, I will have left Belgium in a heartbeat!!

[EBAW_flyer]

If you fly a 737, aks your training department. Is ATPL training not performed in-house?

[jan_olieslagers]

Neither CPL nor ATPL are Belgian licenses. If you really do hold either (which I can't help beginning to doubt) you ought to know.

[Elpiloto]

wow, I just wanted to have the definition, now I have to defend wether I fly yes or no?????

The license it issued by the Belgian CAA and is a CPL which you convert to an ATPL when you have those hours!!!
So all I was asking is the definition of cross country flying.....

@ Jan: if you don't have anything interesting to add to the question at hand, please stop answering...

@ EBAW flyer: yes, the training department is in Iceland and we have a lot of nationalities so I was just wondering about the definition of it...

[teddybAIR]

If my memory serves me right, it is any flight that takes you more than 40km from your departure aerodrome, but I'll try to confirm that by tomorrow for you. And you can always contact the DGL Licencing office if you want an official answer. In my expperience, they are very helpfull!

[Elpiloto]

Thanks Teddy, that's what I was looking for...

[fcw]

I think it is 15min in cruise.
You can probably find it on: mobilit.fgov.be

[teddybAIR]

I always try to revert to official documents and what I found in ICAO Annex 1 - Flight Crew Licensing is the following:

Cross-country. A flight between a point of departure and a point of arrival following a pre-planned route using standard navigation procedures.

During ATPL training, I do not recall having seen a definition of cross-country flights, but in my carpels PPL courses I seem to remember the 40km (25NM) threshold. 2 remarks:

- Carpels is not an official source for definitions
- nevertheless, they can still be correct as the general principle is that ICAO states minimum requirements and any state can impose more severe/strict requirements as long as they do not conflict with the ICAO requirements.

An example of this is the transition altitude. According to ICAO, transition altitude should be at least 3.000' AMSL. The Belgian AIP promulgates 4.500' AMSL, which is more stringent and in respect of the ICAO stipulation.

Hope this already clarifies a little and will come back to you once I've checked Carpels.

Best regards

[Elpiloto]

Thanks again for this...

So actually, if you are not doing touch-and-go's, and go on some training flight or anything else, it is considered a cross country flight...

That could work..

[fcw]

‘Route sector’ means a flight comprising take-off, departure, cruise of not less than 15 minutes, arrival, approach and landing phases.

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex ... 193:en:PDF

[FlightMate]

Dude, if you're flying a 737, I'm pretty sure all your flights are cross-country.
The only issue I see, to be issued the ATPL, once you reach the 1500h, is to make sure you have 250h PIC(US)