Merger Virgin Express (VEX) / SN Brussels Airlines (SNBA)

Avro · Post by **Avro** » 09 Feb 2004, 21:19

vliegtuigfreak wrote:
I agree with your idee Chris. I hope SNBA is listening to you!

I hope too

, but I'm sure there will evalute the situation and make the right decision

I guess this will be for additional frequencies and to add other African destinations like Cotonou, Lagos, Lomé, and why not Bamako and Ougadougou, all former Sabena destinations but with a lot of competition now (AF, ...).

Why alwyas African destinations

I agree that SNBA is very strong in that part of the world and has a good reputation, but don't you think it would be time to strat at least a few long haul destinations to other continents

What I mean is that their main business (in long haul) shoul remain Africa but why not starting a destination in Asia and one in South America (all in codeshare - but partly flown by own planes). Wouldn't that be a better solution.

Ciao
Chris
8)

DannyVDB · Post by **DannyVDB** » 09 Feb 2004, 21:27

Avro wrote: Why alwyas African destinations I agree that SNBA is very strong in that part of the world and has a good reputation, but don't you think it would be time to strat at least a few long haul destinations to other continents What I mean is that their main business (in long haul) shoul remain Africa but why not starting a destination in Asia and one in South America (all in codeshare - but partly flown by own planes). Wouldn't that be a better solution.

Ciao
Chris
8)

Chris,

You're correct. I think SNBA is also looking at other opportunities, but they need for Asia a partner, and you can see that large carriers are very reluctant to start operations on Brussels ...

Secondly. Africa is 'easy' for SNBA: they have their history, there are a lot of destinations where there are only a few or no competitors (think about Bujumbura, no one will fly there - last time I was there in November, people were still waiting for SNBA to come back, almost literally). Also high yields on those flights (a lot of business class and additional cargo) ...

Danny

Post by **sn26567** » 10 Feb 2004, 09:03

Avro wrote:some agreements that would stop some competitions they have on some destinations.

The EU would NEVER allow that! Chris is dreaming again

Fab99 · Post by **Fab99** » 10 Feb 2004, 09:38

To Dany VDB

My feeling (right or not, I don't know) is just coming from general info those companies are releasing, just wondering how SNBA with two times more aircraft and employees than VEX, but with more or less the same number of passengers could do it ? Except if, as we can see, their african network is doing very well.

sabena4ever · Post by **sabena4ever** » 10 Feb 2004, 16:23

Fab99 wrote:To Dany VDB

My feeling (right or not, I don't know) is just coming from general info those companies are releasing, just wondering how SNBA with two times more aircraft and employees than VEX, but with more or less the same number of passengers could do it ? Except if, as we can see, their african network is doing very well.

Hello Fab99

Do not forget the Business 's pax!!!
The overall load factor is not very important, but the business pax, the business load factor is very important for SNBA!! As you see the business prices, you understand why!!!
SNBA? passionate about your "money" !!! business money They need to!!!
Indeed, The african network is very good (load factor over 75%)
I'm not sure about european network, but I think it's very hard to earn money.

Anyway, The merger between VEX and SNBA is an idea coming from the investment bank, not from the VEX or SNBA!!

have a nice day

Avro · Post by **Avro** » 10 Feb 2004, 20:33

sn26567 wrote:
Avro wrote:some agreements that would stop some competitions they have on some destinations.
The EU would NEVER allow that! Chris is dreaming again

Yes indeed I'm dreaming, but I like to do so

You're correct. I think SNBA is also looking at other opportunities, but they need for Asia a partner, and you can see that large carriers are very reluctant to start operations on Brussels ...

They'll have to risk those destinations one day.
But I completely agree that they still have many destinations in Africa which they could fly to.

Anyway I'm going

fftopic: again sorry

Ciao
Chris
8)

Post by **sn26567** » 19 Feb 2004, 17:30

See the latest developments by danieln and myself in the latest news:

Low cost airline Virgin Expres is in negotiations with SN Brussels Airlines about a merger, reports the Belgian financial newspaper L'Echo. The discussions are being held at shareholders' level between Etienne Davignon (SN Air Holding) and Stephen Murphy, an assistant to Richard Branson. The discussions are proceeding smoothly and could be completed in one or two months from now.

Many observers believe that there is "one national airline too much" at Brussels Airport, especially in terms of capacity.

However, Richard Branson is not ready to sell its Belgian subsidiary at any price, despite the poor results. The partial sale of Virgin Blue has brought him some cash, and he can afford to wait.

Avro · Post by **Avro** » 19 Feb 2004, 17:50

Now we can start the speculations about a so-called "merger".

Would it be accepted by the EU that SNBA takes over VEX

I don't think so

.

Will the 2 airlines still fly under 2 different corporate images if they merger ?

Seeing the actual situation, I would say that SNBA is on the stronger side. A couple of months a go it would have been the other way around.

All I hope is that SNBA will be able to keep their corporate image with the wonderful S. It would be very sad to see that S totally dissapearing from the belgian skies

Greetz
Chris
8)

airDD · Post by **airDD** » 19 Feb 2004, 19:55

I wonder if VEX will be sold to Easyjet.
BRU is one of the last big airports missing from the EZ routemap.
I understand VEX & EZ had a gentleman's agreement where EZ wouldnt fly to BRU.
I would make better sense to merge VEX into EZ.
EZ would be able to get the costs down for VEX.
BRU needs a real low-cost carrier if it wants to survive long term.

airDD

Jense · Post by **Jense** » 19 Feb 2004, 19:57

Why does BRU needs a "real low-cost" airline?
There is almost enough traffic to survive, so... I understeand a low-cost airline will be nice, but not so necessary...
(:offtopic:)
greettzzz

Avro · Post by **Avro** » 19 Feb 2004, 19:59

airDD wrote: BRU needs a real low-cost carrier if it wants to survive long term.

Do you really think

I hope that there will be no more LCC at BRU. If EZ would come here and start with the network of VEX, it'll get very difficult for SNBA to compete on the european network !!!

As for now, it seems that CRL is the new Low cost airport in Belgium.

Chris
8)

liebensd · Post by **liebensd** » 19 Feb 2004, 20:06

Don’t forget Richard (Branson). He is still a shareholder of Vex . Vex will have the lowest power in decisions in the new company, because they are a lot smaller than SNBA. So the management of SNBA will tell Richard what will happened with Vex. I don’t see a way that a Belgian Director of SNBA will tell Richard what will happen with Vex.

Greetz,

Dave

airDD · Post by **airDD** » 19 Feb 2004, 20:44

I think low cost is got for an airport. It is the future of short haul and BRU has almost no long haul anymore.
Being against a lowcost to "protect" SNBA is nonsense. It is time for BRU to have market forces decide the real capacity of the airport. And not the government.

And remember Virgin group is much richer than SNBA.
SNBA still drags around a lot of debt and break-even is the best they can hope for in the

airDD

Post by **sn26567** » 20 Feb 2004, 09:36

Avro wrote:Would it be accepted by the EU that SNBA takes over VEX?

In the current state of discussions, the most likely outcome indeed will be that SN BA swallows VEX. The EU will allow it, because the two companies are small, and there will be enough competition from other European carriers on the routes flown by both SN and VEX.

But we are not that far yet. As L'Echo mentioned, Sir Richard has enough money to be able to wait for the most lucrative (for him!) outcome. And that could indeed be a sale to another LCC... (even if nothing has transpired yet).

Comet · Post by **Comet** » 20 Feb 2004, 11:56

I am following this story with a great deal of interest/dread.

If the two airlines merge, will tickets booked for travel on the "old" airlines still be valid?

If the two airlines merge will the resulting carrier be something like Aer Lingus, which is a hybrid of full service and low cost. All EI offer on their flights is "tea, coffee, juice or water" - no snacks or beer or anything like that.

If the two airlines merge, I hope and pray the the result will not be called "Virgin Express" - that is not a good name for a national carrier.

OO-SBZ · Post by **OO-SBZ** » 20 Feb 2004, 14:44

Comet wrote:I am following this story with a great deal of interest/dread.

If the two airlines merge, will tickets booked for travel on the "old" airlines still be valid?

If the two airlines merge will the resulting carrier be something like Aer Lingus, which is a hybrid of full service and low cost. All EI offer on their flights is "tea, coffee, juice or water" - no snacks or beer or anything like that.

If the two airlines merge, I hope and pray the the result will not be called "Virgin Express" - that is not a good name for a national carrier.

Tickets booked on either SNBA or VEX will be void and no money will be paid back.

The new company will copy the hard-line of no-frill service introduced by Ryanair : 'They will offer tea/coffee/juice/water @ €5'

The merged company will be called 'SN Brussels Express'

The flight to/from the UK will be operated by a VEX 737-300/-400 with 149/168 seats when they are not sub-contracted to British Airways.

Enjoy your flight Louise

BeN

Kidding (of course!)

Comet · Post by **Comet** » 20 Feb 2004, 15:17

I hope you are joking Ben

I have a ten day holiday in September to think about, all booked with SNBA!

Avro · Post by **Avro** » 20 Feb 2004, 16:27

LoL BeN

This is my guess of how it'll end:

Since VEX isn't doing well in the LCC business and since SNBA gets more and more popular for their excellent service with relatively low prizes, I would say that the best solution would be that SNBA takes over VEX and continues to sell it's excellent sevice. The name and brand of SNBA should stay (they've worked very hard to get a very good reputation in a short time). SNBA would then have to replace relatively quickly the fleet of VEX, since those planes are not suitable for their service.
As a result of this, Richard Branson would be one of the shareholders of SNBA, and will wrok himself up the company.

Wouldn't that be an option

Greetz
Chris
8)

Avro · Post by **Avro** » 20 Feb 2004, 16:30

I forgot to mention one very important thing

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to be pro-SNBA at all.

I just want Belgium to have one national airline, that is able to compete on European level.

The reason why I said that SNBA should take over VEX and not the other way around, is because SNBA has a better product and has got a better reputation amoung the travellers. That's all.

Ciao
Chris
8)

Comet · Post by **Comet** » 20 Feb 2004, 16:39

I agree with what you are saying Chris. SNBA have the better product, and if these two carriers merge, then this should be the product the new carrier offers, rather than that of Virgin Express. Belgium doesn't want a national carrier like Aer Lingus.