Brucargo: cargo routes, news, Brucargo West, Diabolo.

[convair]

Mind you Passenger and Tolipanebas, in the abovementioned interview Hoornaert seemed to indicate (that's what I understand) that 332s were able to take full cargo on "top" of full pax, but not 333s. Wouldn't he mean weight i.s.o. volume since I guess 333's cargo hold is larger than 332's? I'm a bit confused about the way to understand his statement anyway; could you shed more light on this?
Btw, it's a small detail but difference in max pax load is 16 pax, according to SN's magazine. Is 100 kg the standard pax weight airlines take into account? Wouldn't luggage and food/drinks etc bring that slightly above the 100 kg mark?

[Lamal]

Some numbers:

A332
MZFW: 170000
MTOW: 230000

A333
MZFW: 167000
MTOW: 215000

If you compare these numbers, the 332 takes less pax, but has a higher MZFW and MTOW, allowing it to take more "tonnage". In brief, the 332 is less restricted then the 333.
This is what Mr. Hoornaert, in my opinion, means with: "Despite full passenger loads these aircraft still offer us a payload of at least ten tons or even more each flight while the formerly deployed A330-300s left us no chance for flying any shipment when all seats were booked out by travellers."

The 333 is more restricted regarding weight. Here, factors as number of pax, average bag weight, TOF, sort of cargo play a big role.

If you look e.g to our JFK flight. In the beginning we encountered no issues what so ever, as pax level was rather low, as well as cargo (1 or 2 pallets, 1 ZKE cargo and 1 ZKE mail). If you compare it with today's JFK rotation, it is a whole different story. Apart from 4 bag containers, all space is used by cargo. Due to the required fuel needed, MZFW is frequently reduced with a few tons, resulting in offloading cargo.

Other example is SN359, LAD-FIH, where cargo often receives a negative dispo due to pax and bags numbers and the fuel required to get to LAD.

This is a problem we (will) never encounter on a 332.

There were our 333 leave with an under load from 500kg to 1kg (don't get me wrong, sometimes it much more), our 332 leave with under loads of 10t and more.
Again, this is the 10 tons Hoornaert is referring to.

Convair, I hope this clarifies things a bit.

[tolipanebas]

Mind you Passenger and Tolipanebas, in the abovementioned interview Hoornaert seemed to indicate (that's what I understand) that 332s were able to take full cargo on "top" of full pax, but not 333s. I'm a bit confused about the way to understand his statement anyway; could you shed more light on this?

As you have been told in the mean time, in essence it's because our oldest A333 have a relatively low MTOW compared to the much newer A332s.

It has nothing to do with the A333 being unable to take a full load of cargo on top of a full pax load like Flanker thinks he learnt from the interview, but everything with the fact we fly a bunch of 'classic' A333s from an era when Airbus saw the A333 as just a midrange widebody -the A343 was their true longhaul jet back then- on routes well beyond what it was then conceived for.

As such, our A333s will max out on return flights from East Africa, something you'll not see happening on the much newer A332s, not because as flanker thinks they are smaller and trade (some) seats for (loads of extra) cargo, but because they have increased performance capabilities as in the mean time Airbus has modified the capabilities of the A330 to have it cover much longer missions.

On shorter missions to West Africa, our A333 can happily take a full pax load on top of a full cargo load as that falls well within the range these planes were conceived for and mind you flanker, west and central africa was also the domain of our discussion, unless of course you were thinking of sending your narrowbody fleet to hot and high East Africa???? I'd hope not, because you'd be depressed by their extremely limited capabilities for the return flight, even without any cargo.

BTW- if this article proofs one thing, it's that cargo is not just something to fill the holds with in case you can't fill your cabin, but rather is a highly profitable part of a long haul business, worth having even if you are fully loaded in the cabin. As such, SN will greatly benefit from rolling over their older A333s to newer ones (wiht higher MTOW capabilities) in a couple of years...

[convair]

Yes, thanks a lot Lamal, but what does MZFW stand for exactly?

[Lamal]

MZFW = Max Zero Fuel Weight
MTOW = Max Take Off Weight

[tolipanebas]

FWIW, the top MTOW version for the A333 is currently standing at 235T.
http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articl ... ge-352426/

If you want to learn a bit more about the growth of the MTOW of the A330 and the consequences it has had on expanding the number of missions it can handle and its ever increasing popularity with airlines:
http://airinsight.com/2012/07/05/the-co ... -the-a330/

Enjoy. (oh, and maybe learn something from it, Flanker)

[convair]

And thanks to you Tolipanebas for your detailed explanations about 20 minutes ago.

Edit: very informative articles indeed!

[LJ]

BTW- if this article proofs one thing, it's that cargo is not just something to fill the holds with in case you can't fill your cabin, but rather is a highly profitable part of a long haul business, worth having even if you are fully loaded in the cabin. As such, SN will greatly benefit from rolling over their older A333s to newer ones (wiht higher MTOW capabilities) in a couple of years...

Though true in SNs case this isn't always the case. If you have high yields due to the nature of the cargo (I expect that they have the same type of cargo ex NBO and EBB as all the other airlines) than this is correct. However in other markets this isn't always the case.

Just read this article and understand why de Heer Hoornaert is "niet te spreken" over Qatar Cargo flying from EBB and NBO to LGG...

Thanks, thus basically SN complains about the fact they get competition in a high yield market as it will erode their yields..... I reckon he will also complain about the new service from Magma Aviation?

[Acid-drop]

It seems a flight left saturday from BRU
The traffic rights are canceled or not ?

It seems the traffic rights were allowed for a second time, ethiopian could start flying from BRU the 1st of july.
TNT is now going to justice.
FR : http://www.lesoir.be/268803/article/act ... en-justice
NL : http://www.demorgen.be/dm/nl/996/Econom ... hter.dhtml

[actarus]

Here is a interesting article to Brussels airport Maastricht en Brussel in race voor vrachtstop vluchten VS
12 juli 2013
Turkish Airlines wil vrachtvluchten op de EU doortrekken naar de VS. Maastricht is een grote kanshebber voor de tussenstops.

Directeur Ismail Durmaz van Global Airline Services, de vrachtvertegenwoordiger van Turkish Airlines in een groot aantal Europese landen, zegt dat er een ‘kleine kans’ bestaat dat de luchtmaatschappij al aan het einde van dit jaar een transatlantische vrachtdienst kan opzetten vanaf Istanbul via de Benelux naar de VS met Maastricht Aachen Airport (MAA) of Brussels Airport als tussenstop.

Daarbij zijn de eindbestemmingen in Noord-Amerika nog niet definitief vastgelegd. ‘De keuze gaat tussen Houston, Chicago, Atlanta en New York’, aldus Durmaz. Indien het dit jaar niet meer lukt, wordt er naar gestreefd om in de eerste helft van 2014 te beginnen, voegt hij er aan toe.

‘Welke bestemmingen het uiteindelijk gaan worden in de VS hangt af van de luchtvaartonderhandelingen en de uiteindelijke routeplanning’, onderstreept de directeur van Global. Ook in Europa zijn de kaarten voor MAA nog niet geschud en gaat de race tussen Brussels Airport en Maastricht, voegt hij er aan toe. Een belangrijke factor daarbij is waar de Turkse luchtmaatschappij de noodzakelijke vijfde vrijheidsrechten kan verkrijgen om lading uit bijvoorbeeld de Benelux te transporteren naar een derde land.

De Belgische staat is sinds het verdwijnen van staatsmaatschappij Sabena aanzienlijk gul om vijfde vrijheidsrechten te verlenen aan buitenlandse vrachtmaatschappijen om Brussels Airport te steunnen en er geen belangen in het geding zijn voor een eigen carrier. In Nederland ligt dat anders. Den Haag heeft al herhaaldelijk malen vijfde vrijheidsrechten geweigerd aan buitenlandse vrachtcarriers op Schiphol en Maastricht met het oog op de economische belangen van KLM Cargo.

Durmaz wil hierover alleen kwijt dat de onderhandelingen tussen de luchtvaartautorteiten van België en Nederland en Turkish Airlines lopen en hij de resultaten afwacht. Ofschoon België luchtvaartpolitiek de beste kaarten in handen lijkt te hebben, ligt het operationeel geheel anders. Turkish Airlines Cargo is een van de oudste klanten van Maastricht Aachen Airport en Durmaz is zeer te spreken over de ‘hoogwaardige dienstverlening’ die afhandelaar Maastricht Handling Services al sinds jaar en dag levert.

‘Ondanks de financiële problemen op de luchthaven, die nu gelukkig zijn opgelost, zijn wij een bijzonder tevreden klant van de luchthaven. Jammer dat door de recessie niet meer vrachtmaatschappijen met freighters gebruikmaken van de Limburgse regionale luchthaven’, aldus Durmaz.

Turkish Airlines Cargo voert nu acht vrachtvluchten in de week uit op Maastricht Aachen Airport met onder meer de nieuwe A330F. Datzelfde type met een capaciteit van zestig tot 80 ton zal ook worden ingezet als er de vrachtvluchten op de VS worden geopend.

Durmaz wijst er ook op dat Turkish Airlines naast zijn intensief truckingnetwerk in Europa ook bezig is het netwerk aan passagiersvluchten te verfijnen. Daar kan ook de vrachtsector van profiteren, zegt Durmaz. ‘We gaan onder meer vliegen op Rotterdam en op een aantal kleinere luchthavens in Duitsland. Dat gaat ook ons vrachtproduct versterken.’

Turkish Airlines bouwt intussen gestaag zijn intercontinentaal netwerk uit. Na het Verre Oosten zijn er vrachtvluchten bijgekomen op de Afrikaanse bestemmingen Entebbe (Oeganda), Lagos (Nigeria) en Johannesburg (Zuid-Afrika). Latijns Amerika is een volgende stap. Los van die ontwikkeling heeft Global al plannen om eigen filialen te openen op een aantal belangrijke markten in Zuid-Amerika, waaronder Brazilië. ‘Export, niet alleen van bloemen, wordt in die landen steeds belangrijker. Je moet je dan ook daar positioneren’, aldus Durmaz.
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[sn26567]

Here is a interesting article to Brussels airport Maastricht en Brussel in race voor vrachtstop vluchten VS
12 juli 2013
Turkish Airlines wil vrachtvluchten op de EU doortrekken naar de VS. Maastricht is een grote kanshebber voor de tussenstops.

etc.

Actarus, when posting a long article in this forum in a language other than English, please provide a summary in English.

The article compares the merits of Brussels and Maastricht as an intermediate stop for cargo flights of Turkish Airlines between Turkey and the US and concludes that Maastricht has some chances, despite the opposition of the Dutch government to provide fifth freedom rights in order to protect KLM Cargo.

[LJ]

Den Haag heeft al herhaaldelijk malen vijfde vrijheidsrechten geweigerd aan buitenlandse vrachtcarriers op Schiphol en Maastricht met het oog op de economische belangen van KLM Cargo.

despite the opposition of the Dutch government to provide fifth freedom rights in order to protect KLM Cargo.

Will be interesting to knwo which airlines have been denied 5th freedom rights to the US. Both QR and Air Bridge have these rights (QR only a few years ago). Moreover, isn't SN complaining about the 5th freedom rights QR has between EBB and LGG? Wouldn't surpirse me that the situation has changed at BRU since SN flies to the US.

[Atlantis]

Finally some good news from the Cargo front and it comes from the biggest operator: Saudi Cargo.

In their new schedule they add an additional flight from Guangzhou to Brussels a week. So in total there will be three flights from Guangzhou a week to Brussels.

They add also an additional flight from Dhaka to Brussels a week. So in total there will be five flights a week from Dhaka to Brussels.

Also capacity will be increased as they will fly them all with B747-400F

[Established02]

haven't seen SQ flying to Africa for quite a while

[BRU]

haven't seen SQ flying to Africa for quite a while

Flights to JHB started again early June.

[RoMax]

So what's the total amount of cargo flights that SQ and Saudi are planning for the winter season?
And is DHL still growing their activity at the airport?

And how is Finnair Cargo doing actually?

[Mavke]

Hellow,

DHL wil grow further this winter , they are going in the direction of +-20 flights each day...

and if all goes wel ( it isnt for the moment ) we get a connection to Hong Kong via Leipzig operated with a B77F .
The start date has been delayed 4 times already due to paperwork comming from boeing that has to find there way via the politic affairs to Brussels airport .... the new date should be mid December ....

ken

[BRU]

Hellow,

DHL wil grow further this winter , they are going in the direction of +-20 flights each day...

and if all goes wel ( it isnt for the moment ) we get a connection to Hong Kong via Leipzig operated with a B77F .
The start date has been delayed 4 times already due to paperwork comming from boeing that has to find there way via the politic affairs to Brussels airport .... the new date should be mid December ....

ken

Not brussels airport, but civil aviation...

SV is planning 10 weekly flights this winter (+2), schedule SQ not final yet as far as I know. Finnair is doing well, looking at more capacity between BRU and HEL connecting on their Asian network. Next to HKG they would also continue their freighter from BRU to Vietnam.

[StijnBRU]

SQ will remail on the same level of flights as S13. Things are changing fast, but do not think that they will return to the same level of flights as some years ago. It will stay at 7 flights a week.

[Atlantis]

SQ will remail on the same level of flights as S13. Things are changing fast, but do not think that they will return to the same level of flights as some years ago. It will stay at 7 flights a week.

It is indeed not possible for SQ to fly at the same level to BRU as many years ago when we could see three of them at the same time on the apron.
SQ Cargo is in heavy water and from time to time they send one of their cargo's to the desert.
It is not easy for then neither due to the crises.


@ Member Established02.

SQ is still flying to Nairobi and Johannesburg on Sundays. The flight of yesterday performed like all other times.