Recently closed topics

[FlightMate]

Hi,

A couple of topics recently were closed by mods.
While I understand why they chose to do it, I feel it could benefit the community if, instead of closing the entire topic, they could warn individual members when they go too far (I am talking about personal attacks toward the poster instead of debating the idea), maybe censor the inappropriate posts.
I know it requires more work, but I think it is a shame that, because of 2 or 3 members, the others cannot share their ideas. Some spend their whole day on luchtzak, and in half a day have the possibility to argue, counter-argue, bully others, get bullied by others , but some have got to fly and only have access to the forum once a day (or less)

[sn26567]

Some topics have indeed been closed because all possible arguments had been exposed in detail and the last posts were only personal attacks without new substantial new information.

Warning individual members would indeed have been a solution, but closing the topic might have an equivalent effect on these members. I hope at least that they will understand.

It is always possible to continue a discussion on a subject that has been archived by opening a new topic.

[Atlantis]

I think that moderators are sending warnings to some members. We we are not speaking here about 2 or 3 members, no we are speaking here about a whole bunch of ego trippers who are talking about things they don't have a clue.

When a topic is started we can see that the first two or three posts are about the topic, then we see 5 or 6 pages of personal attacs and more of that shit.

I was in the past also more visible on this forum but not any more. I have better things to do then to defend, explain to those ego trippers.

So sending those members "a warning" by the mods and closing topics are the only thing they can do. Pitty, but that's typical here.

Have a look at the Dutch forums, no single one is closed there and lot of "the old members" of this forum are now visible there.
Quality is much higher because they don't give a shit about how many posts they have already. Here is it a sport for bashing and having as much as possible posts. Quantity is not the same as quality

Regards
Atlantis

[sean1982]

I would like to say something to this. First of all, I'm not "pro" anyone and neither am I "anti" anyone. However, whenever I say my opinion, which sometimes goes against the general concensus here on the forum, I'm the first one to get a bag of shit over my head. Not against my opinion, but against me personally.

I don't know why that is. Maybe it's because I work for Ryanair, and some obviously think it's the lowest of the lowest, and you automatically are not entitled to an opinion, let alone know what you are talking about.
If I may say so, I have been following aviation since I was about 14 I think by now there's a 3 in front of my age and I've been working in the industry for about +10 years, so I think in general I know what I'm talking about. I always try to vent my opinion in the most constructive way possible but it does seem that some people are not ready to accept that another persons opinion does not always stroke with their thoughts. I do however not accept the fact that I am personally attacked an publicly ridiculed just because I have another opinion, and I will not let that happen.

I hope that in the future personal attacks will seize and topics can be discussed in a constructive atmosphere, where everyone is entitled to their opinion regardless if it is pro or contra the general accepted ideas on this forum.

WIth the kindest regards,
Sean

[Air Key West]

Right !
Hence my suggestion to all members : ignore, i.e. don't react to most comments and certainly not to personal attacks (from one member in particular). It only adds fuel to the fire. I haven't been very active on luchtzak recently, because I got tired of these personal fueds.
While going off topic is often unavoidable, being rude to other members is avoidable and much more fun and interesting, imho.

[Pocahontas]

Mediocre, love the word

[convair]

I too regret the closing of topics but acknowledge it was unavoidable.

I tend to stray off-topic sometimes; I've done it a lot today! However, I relish being contradicted, preferably in a courteous manner though.

Thank you.

[Inquirer]

Let's hope that the warnings sent out to the violators will bring a noticable and durable positive change to their public behaviour, but I fear that this may proof idle hope in some cases. Whereas we can all get carried away occasionally and we all deserve a second or even third chance, for some it's definitely not the second (or third) time they have been warned, is it?

Wouldn't it be a better idea to simply expulse those few diehard recidivists iso closing off topics completely?

I ask because from a post by flanker2 from yesterday, it became clear to me that some are simply wishing for others to shut up and any premature wrapping up of a topic which they do not like seeing openly discussed is what they wish for, so a forum policy of closing topics which turn abusive may in fact be doing nothing else but stimulating them to act the way they do because they know the outcome of their (mis)behaviour will bring about the much wanted censorship of the topic, iso of themself!

[convair]

Very good point made by Inquirer; the abuser(s) should not be rewarded!

[Flanker2]

I think that the debate and knowledge base on this forum is of very high level with great arguments flying in all directions sometimes. A lot of issues start when the language barrier causes a misunderstand of the tone of the conversation and arguments. I work in both worlds and I see that the Flemish have a very different approach to debating a debate and direct translation from English makes the conversation appear very rude. In the French language, the tone is very different and you can stay friends even after insulting each other in a debate. Debating in English is much closer to the French tone because you are very direct, but insults are insults and take people apart. But then again, Flemish tend to read big insults where there are jokes.
Like when I said that Inquirer was the perfect name for our daily portion of tabloid drama.

I can tell by reading the posts who is Dutch-speaking and who is French-speaking. I'm sure you guys also noticed this. It's not a clash of mentalities, but a clash of interpretations.

I ask because from a post by flanker2 from yesterday

If you post a Ryanair-bashing article that has no substance, you're simply looking for a fight or being made fun of. When that fight comes, you then blame others for answering your request.

I don't care if that article stays on there and my debate was well-argumented.
My conclusion was also that you were taking another cheap shot at Ryanair, as anyone with a sense of objectivity could probably conclude. Such articles pop up every 2 or 3 weeks, devaluate luchtzak.be and I doubt that there are many people interested in them anymore. The only thing they will be interested in again is when Ryanair will have its first fatal crash.

It's no secret that you're a huge SN fan boy and as a consequence don't like Ryanair. I don't want to change that, but you have to keep your objectivity if you're claiming that you're not a SN employee.

I'm a former SN employee who has left the airline and who has many friends there. As such, I can be very objective because I know the reasons why I left, mainly because SN is somewhat of a managerial mess which made my job impossible, but at the same time I want those issues resolved so my friends (in all departments) there can have a brighter future.

For me, Ryanair is like public transportation, sponsored by the government one way or the other. They will never make money on my 25 euro fare for 2 hour sectors, and I won't ever buy anything on board until the day that I can stop wearing ear plugs on my flights to compensate for the rude and overly loud scratch-cards and smokeless cigarette ads.
I also don't like how they're starting to take advantage of young pilots, in partnership with some FTO/TRTO's. On the other hand I also blame the young first officers for being so naive and sold into the dream.

Given the above proof of objectivity, my object opinion is that your article was a cheap shot and unnecessary "tabloid-drama". It's great to discuss and debate, but as soon as you see that you're not up to the task, you start becoming overly defensive or overly offensive. We should have more fun, we sound like politicians.

[Inquirer]

A lot of issues start when the language barrier causes a misunderstand of the tone of the conversation and arguments. [...] Flemish tend to read big insults where there are jokes.

Oh dear, please don't use this voluntaristic excuse.
People are perfectly able to distinguish between an occasional tong-in-cheek remark or an accidental unkind word written in the heath of a late night's discussion and your outright insulting of any dissenting opinion, of any inconvenient remark, of the professionalism of people working in this industry and of their own person even, often without the slightest provocation for such behaviour and no, people do not automatically deserve to be made fools of or be insulted, just because they happen to post something which you think is "unworthy of being posted here", like you suggest! You may genuinely be convinced you are the most brilliant person out here, doted with a great sense of humour as icing on top of the cake, but believe me: you are about the only one to believe so still, after all your postings here.

As to the second half of your latest post: would you please refain from bringing your by now well known views on your favourite debating issue into litterally almost each and every topic you stumble accross? Ironically, this topic is about the -in many people's view- lackluster approach of the moderators to people repeatedly violating forum rules and hijacking perfectly fine topics with their own propaganda: in this context it is bordering to sadism almost to see you do it again so explicitly all over, in precisely this very topic.

[sean1982]

I agree with you for the most part inquirer, but I do think the use of the word propaganda does not really suit the situation. It's not because his view is favoring an airline and you don't agree, that that should automatically be called propaganda? After all, your favoring views towards the other side could be called the same. Just think of it as 2 political parties defending their own points

[Inquirer]

I agree with you for the most part inquirer, but I do think the use of the word propaganda does not really suit the situation. It's not because his view is favoring an airline and you don't agree, that that should automatically be called propaganda? After all, your favoring views towards the other side could be called the same. Just think of it as 2 political parties defending their own points

I agree with you sean, not every dissenting opinion is to be called propaganda and I have no problem with employees of Bru.air or Ryanair posting on this forum and defending their employer in any of the dedicated topics, as either side knows more about aviation than I do for sure; what is however very offputting to me -and going by the comments above also to a great number of other people arround here- is the constant hijacking of a wide range of other topics by a limited number of people in order to constantly post a certain opinion and it's this pattern which I refer to as propaganda, because just like with political propaganda, the aim seems to be to flood the forum with the certain view and to make sure it is read and discussed even by those who stay well clear of the controversial topics because they have had it with them.

Everybody is entitled to having his opinion and everybody is entitled to express it in dedicated topics which can even be created freely for this purpose should the need arise, but it's a completely different matter when I am forced to discuss a certain opinion of theirs by posting it in all sort of topics which in fact have nothing to do with it, or see them step into other dedicated discussions only to explain in great lengths what a bunch of idiots all those participating in that particular discussion truely are for wasting their time on it whereas there are so much more interesting things to discuss: nobody is preventing them to open a dedicated topic about it, is there, so there's litterally ZERO need to come and spoil other discussions with their comments, unless it must be they have tried to start popular topics themselves and learnt the hard way nobody cared much about what they had to say, yet are desperately seeking an audience nevertheless...

[sean1982]

Couldn't agree more