National Air Cargo crashed in Bagram, Afghanistan

[Kapitein]

Several media reporting a National Air Cargo 747-400BCF crashed at Bagram, Afghanistan.
Cause isn't known for now.

A picture just after the crash shows the disaster

[golf1411]

Ex Air France F-GISE

[Bottie]

http://avherald.com/h?article=46183bb4&opt=0

[hbervoets]

And ex TF-NAD

Construction Number (MSN) 25630
Line Number 960
Aircraft Type Boeing 747-428(M)
First Flight 29-01-1993
Age 20.3 Years
Written Off on 29-04-2013

[SFM]

caught on video:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=c32_1367332518

[cnc]

oh damn

[flightlover]

Wow, looks like a take off stall.

And the people in those buses have a real good guardian angel.

[Tomskii]

Weight shift was reported causing the stall. Afraid not much the pilots could do..

[sn26567]

There is an interesting analysis of the crash sequence shown by the video in FlightGlobal:

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articl ... ce-385338/


Boeing Statement on National Air Cargo Company Accident

The Boeing Company extends sincere condolences to the families and friends of the crew who perished in the crash of a National Air Cargo flight near Bagram, Afghanistan. At the request of the U.S. National Transportation Safety Board, Boeing will provide technical assistance to investigating authorities.

In accordance with international protocol governing aviation accident investigations, all inquiries about the investigation should be directed to the Afghan Ministry of Transport and Civil Aviation (MoTCA).

SEATTLE, April 30, 2013


NTSB has sent a team of experts to Bagram.

[cnc]

Weight shift was reported causing the stall. Afraid not much the pilots could do..

you mean as in moving cargo?

[flightlover]

Weight shift was reported causing the stall. Afraid not much the pilots could do..

you mean as in moving cargo?

That is exactly what he means.
This can happen due to bad locking of the cargo pallets in the plane, or (incorrect) use of not enough/faulty tie-down materials.

[Inquirer]

Imagine that at BRU!
That's a crash straight on the ring or on Evere.

[cnc]

we are talking about a (fully loaded?) 747 with the engines as good as on full power.
i can't see how a pallet of cargo moving could do this.
its not like it has the space to move 5m from the left to the right.
any 747 pilots here?

[FlightMate]

we are talking about a (fully loaded?) 747 with the engines as good as on full power.
i can't see how a pallet of cargo moving could do this.
its not like it has the space to move 5m from the left to the right.
any 747 pilots here?

No but it has the room to move 60m down the back.
If it is a heavy vehicle, this could cause the Centre of Gravity to shift significantly, up to a point where the Autopilot cannot cope with the change of attitude, or the pilot can't trim it fast enough maybe?
It could as well end up being out of the flying envelope. Thus being irrecoverable.

[sn26567]

Pallets? It were 5 heavy armoured vehicles. If one of them was not securely anchored, it could easily move and displace the other vehicles as well.

As mentioned in the above analysis, the aircraft was ascending very fast, with a large angle against the soil level.

The loadmaster (I think he was amongst the victims) could have known his moment of glory in a trial if he had survived.

[cnc]

Pallets? It were 5 heavy armoured vehicles. If one of them was not securely anchored, it could easily move and displace the other vehicles as well.

As mentioned in the above analysis, the aircraft was ascending very fast, with a large angle against the soil level.

The loadmaster (I think he was amongst the victims) could have known his moment of glory in a trial if he had survived.

oh the payload was armoured vehicles?

[9vsmu]

we are talking about a (fully loaded?) 747 with the engines as good as on full power.
i can't see how a pallet of cargo moving could do this.
its not like it has the space to move 5m from the left to the right.
any 747 pilots here?

Not a pilot, but quite familiar with weight and balance.
It's not a question of moving 5 m from left to right, but from forward to aft.



The known facts are : the a/c was loaded with 5 armoured vehicles weighing around 25000lbs each.
This is non standard cargo and is loaded as such. In loadcontrol terms this is what is called "floating pallets". This means that no (or limited number) of the locks provided are used and that the cargo is strapped down according to the company/manufacturers rules. The number of straps is determined by the weight of the item, the strength of the starps/fittings. All weight and balance manuals will also show the forces these straps have to withstand (2.1 up/1.5 fwd, aft, sideways). In the manual you can also find which straps can be used. Most common are the ones with fittings certified up to 5000lbs/2250kg

A quick calculation shows : assuming 1 verhicle weighs 15000kg.

fwd straps 15000x1.5/2250 gives 10 straps
sideways 15000x1.5/2250 gives 10 straps (x2)
aft 15000x1.5/2250 gives 10straps
upwards 15000x2.1/2250 gives 14straps

This is just a minimum. Additional rules can dictate higher nr of straps.

I can assure you that when you have to tiedown 5 such vehicles, you'll be busy quite some time.
Hope this sheds some light on this matter

[flightlover]

Pallets? It were 5 heavy armoured vehicles. If one of them was not securely anchored, it could easily move and displace the other vehicles as well.

As mentioned in the above analysis, the aircraft was ascending very fast, with a large angle against the soil level.

The loadmaster (I think he was amongst the victims) could have known his moment of glory in a trial if he had survived.

Though you can load vehicles without pallets in some planes, in a 747F you do need them. There is a whole loading system installed which makes it almost impossible to load vehicles without a pallet underneath.
What is done sometime is to load empty pallets at first to make it possible to drive cars inside.

Besides, these pallets are not only for speeding up loading but also to disperse the weight over a larger area. Something you really want to do especially with HEAVY army vehicles as suggested.

ps: A 'fully' loaded a/c doesn't mean there is no open space left. It may just be at max take-off weight.

[cnc]

ps: A 'fully' loaded a/c doesn't mean there is no open space left. It may just be at max take-off weight.

true but the load should be placed to both balance the aircraft (trim) and to limit the possible movement in case part of the load gets a free ticket to move.
i've done my share of 747 loadplans and we placed vehicles always on pallets but i can imagene setting a massive vehicle loose on such an angle could cause to "free" the vehicles behind it.
didn't know what the load was before

[flightlover]

true but the load should be placed to both balance the aircraft (trim) and to limit the possible movement in case part of the load gets a free ticket to move.
i've done my share of 747 loadplans and we placed vehicles always on pallets but i can imagene setting a massive vehicle loose on such an angle could cause to "free" the vehicles behind it.
didn't know what the load was before

I fully agree with you. Just wanted to make it clear to SN26567 pallets where used although vehicles where loaded.

Nice load vs tie-down calculation btw 9vsmu.