Austria bans Emirates A380

[sn26567]

Austria bans Emirates A380 and denies Qantas codeshare to Vienna

Austrian aviation authorities have denied permission for Emirates to operate its Airbus A380 on some of its 13X-weekly Dubai-Vienna flights. It also denied Emirates traffic rights to increase Vienna frequencies to 14X-weekly under its Qantas partnership. Authorities fear too much capacity would be brought into Vienna, which could increase competition. It wants to protect the economical interests of the country.

Source: ATW online

[OO-ITR]

Austria bans Emirates A380 and denies Qantas codeshare to Vienna

Austrian aviation authorities have denied permission for Emirates to operate its Airbus A380 on some of its 13X-weekly Dubai-Vienna flights. It also denied Emirates traffic rights to increase Vienna frequencies to 14X-weekly under its Qantas partnership. Authorities fear too much capacity would be brought into Vienna, which could increase competition. It wants to protect the economical interests of the country.

Source: ATW online

I think more EU countries wel be more severe to let the Gulf carriers in Europe.
AF'ceo already mentionned to use political pressure to limit Gulf carriers in Europe.

[b720]

when European carriers start offering the same level of service as Gulf airlines, there will be no need for political intervention or pressure. Why protect ailing carriers that struggle to make money, over charge, and offer lousy service? At the end of the day the passengers are those who decide with whom they wish to spend their cash and fly. One can not compare the level of comfort offered between EK and OS on the VIE-DXB service.

[Michelmvd]

Poor old Europe ! It still doesn't understand thzt it isn't the center of the world anymore.
Best Rgds
Michel


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[airtrainer]

Authorities fear too much capacity would be brought into Vienna, which could increase competition. It wants to protect the economical interests of the country.

No wonders why OS is NEVER among the cheapest options when looking for airfares...

[RoMax]

I don't like this kind of competition restricting measurements. But when you have in mind that Emirates has UNLIMITED resources (EK and the future airport infrastructure (combined with Dubai wanting to become the new business/financial center of Asia) is one of the key elements in the development of Dubai to secure its future after they run out of oil. EK's profit is mainly virtual, there are unlimited streams of money going into the company that they never have to pay back)... So I understand the decision, OS can't compete with EK, even with the same level of high service they wouldn't be able to compete on price. If it's the right choice...future will tell, but I'm sure EK, QR and EY can kill a significant part of the European aviation if they don't protect their own economy.

[cnc]

they should limit slots then, not set restrictions on a/c type...

[RoMax]

they should limit slots then, not set restrictions on a/c type...

Why? Isn't upgrading from 77W to A380 a serious increase in capacity as well? Besides they restrict them both on slots and aircraft type (they do currently 13 weekly and wanted 14 weekly including A380, both are rejected).
Restrictions on aircraft type is simply a huge thing in certain (bilateral) agreements. For example, China and India don't allow each airline to fly the amount of A380's they would like to operate. If you want to restrict an airline to further expand in your market (and by such damaging the local economy), you need restrictions on both slots and aircraft type.

[cnc]

they should limit slots then, not set restrictions on a/c type...

Why? Isn't upgrading from 77W to A380 a serious increase in capacity as well? Besides they restrict them both on slots and aircraft type (they do currently 13 weekly and wanted 14 weekly including A380, both are rejected).
Restrictions on aircraft type is simply a huge thing in certain (bilateral) agreements. For example, China and India don't allow each airline to fly the amount of A380's they would like to operate. If you want to restrict an airline to further expand in your market (and by such damaging the local economy), you need restrictions on both slots and aircraft type.

yes but frequency is far bigger competition threat then seat count imo

[RoMax]

yes but frequency is far bigger competition threat then seat count imo

Yes, but they already have the right to fly 13/week...that's already quite a bit if you turn that into A380 flights. Ok, they could reduce that number, but that would be very extreme and result in a diplomatic war between Austria and the UAE I assume.
In this case, a restriction on both frequency and aircraft type is the most suitable.

[convair]

It's a sign of our times; Europeans need to protect their commercial aviation industry against Asia, the same way Africans need to, and do, protect their own against Europe!

Meanwhile, LH staff goes on strike.....

It's high time for some people in Europe to open their eyes and accept the realities of the 21rst century !

[quixoticguide]

I don't like this kind of competition restricting measurements. But when you have in mind that Emirates has UNLIMITED resources (EK and the future airport infrastructure (combined with Dubai wanting to become the new business/financial center of Asia) is one of the key elements in the development of Dubai to secure its future after they run out of oil. EK's profit is mainly virtual, there are unlimited streams of money going into the company that they never have to pay back)... So I understand the decision, OS can't compete with EK, even with the same level of high service they wouldn't be able to compete on price. If it's the right choice...future will tell, but I'm sure EK, QR and EY can kill a significant part of the European aviation if they don't protect their own economy.

Dubai has extremely limited oil reserves.
EK doesn't has unlimited resources and Emirates has always raised funds on a commercial basis.

[RoMax]

Dubai has extremely limited oil reserves.

Which is why they are that far in developing Dubai as the cargo and business/financial center of Asia. Aviation is one of the big key elements in that development of Dubai. What I'm talking about is not something that started today, I'm talking about a process that started MANY years ago when oil was still the big sector in Dubai (I believe it currently doesn't even represent 10% of the GDP anymore).

EK doesn't has unlimited resources and Emirates has always raised funds on a commercial basis.

And you seriously believe that? From the outside everything looks commerially funded, but from the inside... Just on a commercial base (even with the advantages of Dubai like no unions, cheaper fuel for EK, the good relation with DXB Airport, the great positioning for a transfer hub operation, ...) they wouldn't be at the level the currently are (in size, but mainly financialy).

[Tomskii]

AMS better had done the same tbh..

EK hasn't got unlimited resources? Really -> have you seen how much money those people in Dubai are able to shit every day? Those sjeiks are oilsjeiks.. as far as I know oil is still available in great amounts over there so..

[LJ]

Why? Isn't upgrading from 77W to A380 a serious increase in capacity as well? Besides they restrict them both on slots and aircraft type (they do currently 13 weekly and wanted 14 weekly including A380, both are rejected).

The most dense A380 seats 14F76C427Y whilst the 77W seats 12F42C304Y, a difference of 159 seats. However, it's unknown if they planned 14 daily A380 or a combination of A380s, 77Ws or another type.

[RoMax]

The most dense A380 seats 14F76C427Y whilst the 77W seats 12F42C304Y, a difference of 159 seats. However, it's unknown if they planned 14 daily A380 or a combination of A380s, 77Ws or another type.

It was more like a retoric question to indicate it's still a serious increase in capacity even without extra frequencies (even with a A380/77W combination). But thank you anyway to give the exact difference between the two.

[Flanker2]

they should limit slots then, not set restrictions on a/c type...

Why? Isn't upgrading from 77W to A380 a serious increase in capacity as well? Besides they restrict them both on slots and aircraft type (they do currently 13 weekly and wanted 14 weekly including A380, both are rejected).
Restrictions on aircraft type is simply a huge thing in certain (bilateral) agreements. For example, China and India don't allow each airline to fly the amount of A380's they would like to operate. If you want to restrict an airline to further expand in your market (and by such damaging the local economy), you need restrictions on both slots and aircraft type.

I like your comparison between India/Air India and Austria/OS.
2 incompetent governments, 2 incompetent airlines, same business.

EK hasn't got unlimited resources? Really -> have you seen how much money those people in Dubai are able to shit every day? Those sjeiks are oilsjeiks.. as far as I know oil is still available in great amounts over there so..

It's funny because the money that those sjeiks shit (I find it a rather unelegant expression) comes from Europe for a large part. The Austrian government is equally responsible in funding EK...

Dubai has extremely limited oil reserves.
EK doesn't has unlimited resources and Emirates has always raised funds on a commercial basis.

The cousins from Abu-Dhabi also contribute to EK's success, believe me.


But it doesn't matter, if Europe want an open market like they pretend they do with all their anti-anti-competition rethoric, then they must allow EK to develop the competition. It's a global market.

Poor old Europe ! It still doesn't understand thzt it isn't the center of the world anymore.
Best Rgds
Michel

You wouldn't believe how true that is until you see it with your own eyes. The arrogance we see in Europe is second to none and I see this a lot in my business dealings (even more as a customer than a supplier). People owning a company, earn enough to buy a BMW and Audi and they think that they are it.
"Supplier" is king... and the working public seems to have accustomed to this.
I even had a company pretend like they were the kings of Belgium, pretending a huge discount to start a B2B relationship, in turn for huge volumes. A little research on the balanscentrale showed that they were bankrupt.... I offered them the discount they asked for, knowing that the order would never come. The lack of resources in the light of the huge opportunity must be killing them.

Or a Belgian distributor arrogantly forcing me to take a product in large volumes through a retailer and "refusing to deal with me because he only deals with big retailers", when I can just buy the same product from the source at 10% of the retail price... One day I walked into his office by surprise and told him that if he doesn't want to deal with me, I'm going to buy it from the source and make him and his 3 by 3 office level with the ground.
Now he's singing a little quieter.

[earthman]

A bit off-topic to reply to this, but why would you want to deal with some arrogant distributor if you can buy from the source for less?

Back on-topic, the gulf carrier thing is in essence a kind of price dumping issue.

[LJ]

It was more like a retoric question to indicate it's still a serious increase in capacity even without extra frequencies (even with a A380/77W combination). But thank you anyway to give the exact difference between the two.

I know, but you never know if someone finds 159 seat a "not substantial" increase

Anyway, to put things in perspective. EK currently flies the 77W (daily) and the 345 (6 weekly) to VIE (thus not twice daily 77W). The total (current) capacity is almost equal to the capacity on AMS-DXB (which is a daily A380, usually high density).

BTW it is a little bit childish not giving EK its 14th weekly frequency. As if one extra 345 will make the difference.

[LJ]

AMS better had done the same tbh..

Why? If so, I doubt we would have seen EY at AMS. Moreover, KL+HV wouldn't be able to have twice daily AMS-DXB.

The cousins from Abu-Dhabi also contribute to EK's success, believe me.

Indeed, it was Abu Dhabi who bailed out Dubai, and will probably do so the next time.