BRU Summer 2013 - Latest News: routes, airlines

[sn26567]

Istanbul Ataturk – Brussels 22JUN13 – 23SEP13 Service increases from 28 to 30 weekly. Additional flights:

Code: Select all

TK1935 IST0425 – 0650  BRU 320 17
TK1936 BRU2230 – 0250+1IST 320 67

Source: Airline Route

[sn26567]

Strange GDS filing by Jet Airways, revealed by Airline Route:

OAG Schedules listing updated on 28JAN13 is displaying that Jet Airways resumes Brussels - New York JFK (9W1008/1001) Apr - Jul 2013.

The 9W schedules are filed for "other purposes" since all Brussels, Newark and Toronto services also display 9W1000 - 1019 series flight numbers.

Jet Airways also filed a "2nd daily" Mumbai - Brussels, Brussels - Toronto with 737-900 from 24APR13 to 02AUG13.

[jimyvr]

I wasn't planning to post anything on any forums this year, but in this case it can't be described within 140 characters so here's your explanation.

The speculation started when the weekly OAG thread appeared on airliners.net. Despite that weekly thread covers the stuff I don't report (either I don't care; not significant; I missed it), and sometimes I use it as a "cheat sheet", but to be honest, comparison using frequencies doesn't reflect entire picture and can be misleading (because you can have 3 daily reduced to 1 but switches from CRJ to 737-800 for instance).

This is the filing for the week (which I happen to have it too) of 29JAN13...

9W1000 BRU BOM (739)
9W1000 EWR BRU BOM (332)
9W1001 JFK BRU BOM (739)
9W1002 YYZ BRU (739)
9W1003 YYZ BRU BOM (739)
9W1004 JFK BRU (739)
9W1008 BOM BRU JFK (332)
9W1008 BRU JFK (739)

These flights are appearing in the OAG between 24APR13 and 02AUG13, but haven't "made it" to the GDS. From time to time there will be mis-filing or filed intentionally as dummy flights (LAN does it, which I fell for it and reported in error before) from the airline but somehow the person who did that OAG thread on weekly basis doesn't seem to realize that, especially for doing it for over 18 months now.

[RoMax]

Just read this on SN's facebook page (as one of the reactions on the temporary booking problems this week):

Dear Nigel Robinson Newcastle will not be bookable anymore, because we have decided to stop our operations to Newcastle as from summer season (starting end of March), due to low demand. We're sorry for the inconvenience

This one's new for me. Has this been mentioned before or is it relative new?
Suppose 3 daily Q400 was too much with downgrading to 1-2 daily not an option for this destination?

[Tomskii]

I wasn't planning to post anything on any forums this year, but in this case it can't be described within 140 characters so here's your explanation.

The speculation started when the weekly OAG thread appeared on airliners.net. Despite that weekly thread covers the stuff I don't report (either I don't care; not significant; I missed it), and sometimes I use it as a "cheat sheet", but to be honest, comparison using frequencies doesn't reflect entire picture and can be misleading (because you can have 3 daily reduced to 1 but switches from CRJ to 737-800 for instance).

This is the filing for the week (which I happen to have it too) of 29JAN13...

9W1000 BRU BOM (739)
9W1000 EWR BRU BOM (332)
9W1001 JFK BRU BOM (739)
9W1002 YYZ BRU (739)
9W1003 YYZ BRU BOM (739)
9W1004 JFK BRU (739)
9W1008 BOM BRU JFK (332)
9W1008 BRU JFK (739)

These flights are appearing in the OAG between 24APR13 and 02AUG13, but haven't "made it" to the GDS. From time to time there will be mis-filing or filed intentionally as dummy flights (LAN does it, which I fell for it and reported in error before) from the airline but somehow the person who did that OAG thread on weekly basis doesn't seem to realize that, especially for doing it for over 18 months now.

Obviously the 739 flights are ferry flights I would suppose.

[sn26567]

Just read this on SN's facebook page (as one of the reactions on the temporary booking problems this week):

Dear Nigel Robinson Newcastle will not be bookable anymore, because we have decided to stop our operations to Newcastle as from summer season (starting end of March), due to low demand. We're sorry for the inconvenience

This one's new for me. Has this been mentioned before or is it relative new?
Suppose 3 daily Q400 was too much with downgrading to 1-2 daily not an option for this destination?

Confirmed by Airline Route:

brussels airlines Cancels Newcastle Service from late-March 2013

brussels airlines from 31MAR13 is cancelling Brussels – Newcastle operation, where it currently operates up to 3 times a day on weekdays (1 – 2 on weekends). This route is currently operated by flyBe Dash8-Q400 aircraft.

Schedule for Feb 2013:

Code: Select all

SN2187 BRU0945 – 1030NCL DH4 x67
SN2189 BRU1540 – 1625NCL DH4 x26
SN2193 BRU2050 – 2135NCL DH4 x6

SN2194 NCL0605 – 0900BRU DH4 x7
SN2198 NCL1100 – 1355BRU DH4 x267
SN2190 NCL1655 – 1950BRU DH4 x6

[tolipanebas]

And then to think a certain member has long maintained that offering multiple frequencies to provincial towns with Q400 planes would be a brilliant and game changing plan for SN or in fact any network airline and that all those which aren't doing it, are run by complete idiots.

FYI- SN started serving the capital of Scotland -EDI- on A319, last autumn; EDI is some 80 miles north of NCL and is seeing it's frequencies being doubled as from this summer, so you'll find the 2 events very much linked of course.

[A330]

First of all, sad to see SN cancel yet another destination. There has been some positive news on the long-haul side, with the start of JFK last year, and with IAD coming up next summer. However, the European network has taken some hits. Frequencies have been reduced on a lot of destinations (down to 1x or 2x daily, like OSL, LHR is only 3x daily, DME back to 1 daily), some have gone seasonal, others have been cancelled altogether (e.g. ATH, WAW).
Doesn't this make it hard to offer good connections both ways, morning and evening, to other European destinations (and long-haul)?
Of course, if SN is losing money on these routes, they need to act. But still sad to see the network shrinking instead of growing. Only positive news last 12 months was EDI and BSL (taken over from LX).

FYI- SN started serving the capital of Scotland -EDI- on A319, last autumn; EDI is some 80 miles north of NCL and is seeing it's frequencies being doubled as from this summer, so you'll find the 2 events very much linked of course.

Does this mean they made/are making a choice between both destinations? Also, thinking of a lot of smaller UK destinations: if SN cannot sustain NCL, then what is the chance they can ever do LBA, EMA or others, with MAN and BHX in the vicinity?
Sorry to sound a bit pessimistic here, but I don't really see the "plan", apart from the 1 extra long-haul aircraft per year.

[Flanker2]

And then to think a certain member has long maintained that offering multiple frequencies to provincial towns with Q400 planes would be a brilliant and game changing plan for SN or in fact any network airline and that all those which aren't doing it, are run by complete idiots.

FYI- SN started serving the capital of Scotland -EDI- on A319, last autumn; EDI is some 80 miles north of NCL and is seeing it's frequencies being doubled as from this summer, so you'll find the 2 events very much linked of course.

What's your point then?
Still a shame that SN got out of NCL in favor of EDI. For me they can go A380 to EDI, I don't care. I don't see Edinburgh, not much business going on there, it's a leisure destination.

If NCL wasn't sustainable with the Q400, I wonder what the economics were with the Avro

[convair]

But isn't the twice daily to EDI going to be a Q400? Ithink I've read that somewhere. If that is the case, the pax who were becoming regular on this flight will really be disappointed.

[LJ]

But isn't the twice daily to EDI going to be a Q400? Ithink I've read that somewhere. If that is the case, the pax who were becoming regular on this flight will really be disappointed.

The answer is Yes if you look in the GDS (though still a capacity increase of 90 seats a week). However, maybe a mistake in the GDS?

FYI- SN started serving the capital of Scotland -EDI- on A319, last autumn; EDI is some 80 miles north of NCL and is seeing it's frequencies being doubled as from this summer, so you'll find the 2 events very much linked of course.

Would be strange as some airlines manage both EDI and NCL (see KL).

What's your point then?
Still a shame that SN got out of NCL in favor of EDI. For me they can go A380 to EDI, I don't care. I don't see Edinburgh, not much business going on there, it's a leisure destination.

Probably never heard of RBS and the other financial services located in EDI. Needless to say the Scottish parliament is also located in Edinburgh.

[RoMax]

Would be strange as some airlines manage both EDI and NCL (see KL).

KLM is not really a good comparison when talking about the UK (or Norway), they'll even start Manston (they'll be the only pax airline overthere).
When looking at non-UK network carriers operating into NCL:
- AF (CityJet): Paris
- KLC: AMS
- LH (Eurowings): DUS (not even MUC or FRA)
- SAS: CPH

And then looking at EDI:
- AF (CityJet): Paris (and LCY)
- KLM/KLC: AMS
- LH: FRA
- SAS: CPH and ARN seasonal
- TK: IST

Austrian, Swiss, Alitalia, Iberia (can be explained with BA), ... are not even active at either one of them (apart from some seasonal charters by some) and LH, AF, KL have a lot more to offer than SN of course.

Sad to see NCL dissapear of course, but let's hope EDI will do fine. And indeed, EDI is far from a leisure destinations, it's one of the most important financial districts in the UK after London. The reason that EDI-BRU exists is just because of business, politics (EU-traffic) and transfers. The few tourists going to that area are a plus, but you don't fill multiple daily flights with that (BD Regional is also still active on the route).

[JOVAN]

Would be strange as some airlines manage both EDI and NCL (see KL).

KLM is not really a good comparison when talking about the UK (or Norway), they'll even start Manston (they'll be the only pax airline overthere).
When looking at non-UK network carriers operating into NCL:
- AF (CityJet): Paris
- KLC: AMS
- LH (Eurowings): DUS (not even MUC or FRA)
- SAS: CPH

And then looking at EDI:
- AF (CityJet): Paris (and LCY)
- KLM/KLC: AMS
- LH: FRA
- SAS: CPH and ARN seasonal
- TK: IST

Austrian, Swiss, Alitalia, Iberia (can be explained with BA), ... are not even active at either one of them (apart from some seasonal charters by some) and LH, AF, KL have a lot more to offer than SN of course.

Sad to see NCL dissapear of course, but let's hope EDI will do fine. And indeed, EDI is far from a leisure destinations, it's one of the most important financial districts in the UK after London. The reason that EDI-BRU exists is just because of business, politics (EU-traffic) and transfers. The few tourists going to that area are a plus, but you don't fill multiple daily flights with that (BD Regional is also still active on the route).

It is indeed sad to see NCL disappears.
Although I like to read and believe Tolipanebas explanations, the reality is better explained by Flanker 2.

If indeed SN is so weak it cannot take benefit from the Unique location and facilities of BRU, and has to cancel destinations or reduce frequencies in a dramatic way to destinations like Moscow, Warsaw,etc..., there is reason to worry.

SN is just un-attractive to travellers, no image , no appeal, ...

This is a Management problem. With present 'management' we are going N O W H E R E. This is a pity.

[RoMax]

If indeed SN is so weak it cannot take benefit from the Unique location and facilities of BRU, and has to cancel destinations or reduce frequencies in a dramatic way to destinations like Moscow, Warsaw,etc..., there is reason to worry.

SN is just un-attractive to travellers, no image , no appeal, ...

This is a Management problem. With present 'management' we are going N O W H E R E. This is a pity.

Partly agree yes. SN is attractive to a limited group of (business) travellers, and thanks to their JFK flights and their new long haul product that's really well received by the passengers, they start to build a better image as long haul carrier. Tough all that is, at this moment, way too limited to sustain the European network they had in, let's say, summer 2011 even summer 2012.
Connections within Europe need to improve (and maybe it's better to focus on a more limited amount of destinations where they can prove to be attractive as carrier, than trying to fill a big feeding network that doesn't fit the current long haul network) and long haul needs to be expanded. In my opinion that should be with 2 extra A330's a year, but they don't seem to have that idea.
I don't think the current problem is the network and/or product strategy in itself (especially since two ex-LH managers entered as Chief Operational Officer and Chief Commercial Officer), but rather the speed they are implementing it. Who's wrong or right, future will tell.

[Atlantis]

If indeed SN is so weak it cannot take benefit from the Unique location and facilities of BRU, and has to cancel destinations or reduce frequencies in a dramatic way to destinations like Moscow, Warsaw,etc..., there is reason to worry.

SN is just un-attractive to travellers, no image , no appeal, ...

This is a Management problem. With present 'management' we are going N O W H E R E. This is a pity.

The behavior of SN is lately indeed weird. Even their name or slogan like connection the world with Brussels is more and more vage. They are cancelling all European capitals: Athens, Helsinki, Warsaw,.... and what will follow. We saw in meantime also other cities like KRK, NCL,....etc. It is all cancelling but not adding a new destination. Athens is a city of 10 million people. Jetairfly is flying on it. Warsaw is a city of nearly 3 million people and economic booming. Why cancelling HEL in favor of LH. Why not cities like Rabat, damacus,....??

[nordikcam]

Hummm flying to Damascus right now ??? Very good idea

[Atlantis]

Hummm flying to Damascus right now ??? Very good idea

You know what I mean. Cities like Amman, Beirut. Beirut is after many years now served by MEA 4 times a week, Amman was served by Jordanian but due to their own problems they stopped even flights were upgraded regulary

[travellover]

The behavior of SN is lately indeed weird. Even their name or slogan like connection the world with Brussels is more and more vage. They are cancelling all European capitals: Athens, Helsinki, Warsaw,.... and what will follow.

Yes, why ?

Athens is a city of 10 million people.

The whole Greece has a population of 11.12 million people. Athens metropolitan area counts 3,737,550 people.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athens
http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/tgm/ta ... e=tps00001

[Atlantis]

The behavior of SN is lately indeed weird. Even their name or slogan like connection the world with Brussels is more and more vage. They are cancelling all European capitals: Athens, Helsinki, Warsaw,.... and what will follow.

Yes, why ?

Athens is a city of 10 million people.

The whole Greece has a population of 11.12 million people. Athens metropolitan area counts 3,737,550 people.

hmmm typo of mine, I forgot to mention Caïro and Caïro has a population of 10 million people.

[sn26567]

When looking at non-UK network carriers operating into NCL:
- AF (CityJet): Paris
- KLC: AMS
- LH (Eurowings): DUS (not even MUC or FRA)
- SAS: CPH

About SAS, service from CPH to NCL started only on 4 Feb 2013 on a 5-weekly schedule: it is too early to estimate wheter it will be successful. Furthermore, SAS is using a CRJ200 wet-leased from Sterling-Cimber on the route, thus low costs. Maybe even a Q400 is too big for SN (especially thrice-daily), which suffers from not having smaller planes.