24% less passengers for Virgin Express in January

OO-VEX · Post by **OO-VEX** » 13 Feb 2004, 17:29

On Kanaal Z is saw the following on the moving bar:

Virgin Express transported 24% less passengers in January

i have no more details and couldn't find other sources on the net.

OO-VEX

Jense · Post by **Jense** » 13 Feb 2004, 17:34

I think that not one airline has got more passengers in January... Isn't it the lowest fly-month of the year?

greettzzz

Post by **luchtzak** » 13 Feb 2004, 17:41

Was it related to January 2003 (last year) or December 2003 (last month)?

Avro · Post by **Avro** » 13 Feb 2004, 17:45

Well if it's about January 2004 it's some bad news

Especially when you know that they allready make few profit

...or December 2003 (last month)?

Bart, last month was Jan2004

Chris
8)

A318 · Post by **A318** » 13 Feb 2004, 17:51

Auch, that is not so good since RYR and EZY carried more passenger in January. How is that possible, VEX flies from Zaventem, has (as fas as i know) a good reputation (correct me if i'm wrong) and they loose passengers.
This industry is sometimes so weird it drives me nuts

Greetz,

Erwin

AN124 · Post by **AN124** » 13 Feb 2004, 19:14

This is indeed not good for VEX.
I flew several times with them myself. I didn't like flying them. All flights I had with them where delayed with half an hour or more and also the legg space is to less. Easy and Ryan both offer you more space against a lower price.

And if you compare VEX and SN prices on several routes you see that SN sometimes is cheaper then VEX or prices are really close togheter.

If I wa the passenger I would chosse for the full service airline and not for the Low Cost Carrier if prices are this close.

Best Regards,
Yvo

Avro · Post by **Avro** » 13 Feb 2004, 19:28

I had 2 flights with VEX so far, and I can't complain. The flights were very nice (I even had the chance to do a jumpseat landing

).

But as you said Yvo, the fares are the problems. The last few months it more and more seems that VEX has a lot of problems competing with SNBA. I guess that they've lost a lot of pax on the flights were they compete. For the moment I would say that SNBA is the better value for money out of the 2

Ciao
Chris
8)

OO-SBZ · Post by **OO-SBZ** » 13 Feb 2004, 22:33

Bad piece of new for a Belgian carrier...

VEX should react by drastically changing a few things

prices:
If SNBA manages to offer lower fares with added value (drink, food, more legroom)... just do the same!

fleet
The Boeing 737-300/-400s are ageing. SNBA operates newer ARJs and 319s whereas budget competitor Ryanair is introducing new planes... and phasing out the older ones.

service
From my first (and single) VEX experience the service you get is hardly better than on Ryanair... and can not compete with SNBA...

Regards

BeN

Fab99 · Post by **Fab99** » 13 Feb 2004, 23:05

Guys, don't you think that if VEX is having less pax in january, the same will happen to SNBA, as they fly from brussels as well???

Don't you think neither that if ,as you say, SNBA and VEX are having the same fares, than SNBA must loose a hell of money???

Those are bad news for everybody (operating in or out of brussels) I guess!

Buzz · Post by **Buzz** » 14 Feb 2004, 00:16

All they do is complain about the things such as illegal competition etc., but that won't help them... They should take some drastic action instead of complaining all the time, because if there fares were right (not as low as RYR's, that's impossible, but lower as they are now, 'cause that isn't Low Cost...) , everyone would choose them over RYR, simply because they fly out of a decent airport...
I would love to fly them one time, but for one of their tickets, I can fly a couple times with RYR, busride included... (I don't care that much where I am flying, as long as I can fly!)
Why can't the do as good as Virgin Blue in Australia? To much competition here, or are there other reasons?

Sabena_690 · Post by **Sabena_690** » 14 Feb 2004, 09:43

Fab: don't you think there is something wrong with the cost structure offered by Virgin Express?

Even with the very high load factor they reported a few months ago, they were not making a big profit.

I once heard (cannot confirm if it's true or not) that, for a low cost airline, the cost structure of VEX is way too heavy. Way too much staff.

If I can fly SNBA for €15 more, I will do so. And a lot of other people have the same opinion as me I guess... VEX reported a 59% load factor, that's extremely low for a low cost.

Frederic

Fab99 · Post by **Fab99** » 14 Feb 2004, 12:15

To Sabena_690

The low prices of SNBA are exactly the problem!!!

VEX is a low cost, it means that the organization of a flight should cost less to them than to SNBA (and I'm sure that's the case) ; and as VEX is actually losing a lot of money, I believe SNBA must lose much more money in that battle!!!

I find this is a sad fact as those two companies are BOTH belgian, they should try to help each other and work together instead of fighting like that.

I believe that's the only way if we want to keep some belgian companies in Belgium !

Sabena_690 · Post by **Sabena_690** » 14 Feb 2004, 12:49

I don't agree, Fab99.

SN prices are too low? I recommend you to compare them with KLM/Air France/Lufthansa/British Airways. Some of them are even cheaper then SN!

No, SN is not too cheap, I honnestly find VEX expensive for the service they offer. I know they fly to/from real airports, but still than I find that €165 as cheapest fare for a roundtrip to MAD is too expensive for an airline only offering a seat.

Thanks to the concurrence between VEX and SN, passengers can fly for a good price to where they want.

When VEX would stop its BRU operations someday, I'm sure than a new low cost would operate from BRU (why not EZY??). THAT would be a problem for SN, due to the low costbase of EZY.

Another thing I do not agree with:

VEX is a low cost, it means that the organization of a flight should cost less to them than to SNBA (and I'm sure that's the case) ; and as VEX is actually losing a lot of money, I believe SNBA must lose much more money in that battle!!!

You are forgetting one thing: high yield passengers. SN sells business class tickets and full fare economy class tickets. Enough high yield passengers can make a flight profitable, even with a low load factor. VEX doesn't have those high yield passengers!

Frederic

Avro · Post by **Avro** » 14 Feb 2004, 18:18

Guys, don't you think that if VEX is having less pax in january, the same will happen to SNBA, as they fly from brussels as well???

Not sure

Don't forget that VEX has mainly tourists as clients, while SNBA has many business pax as well. I know it's the low season, but the business pax are still flying....

Fab99 wrote: Don't you think neither that if ,as you say, SNBA and VEX are having the same fares, than SNBA must loose a hell of money???

Not at all

As Sabena_690 allready told you, SNBA has also business pax and they pay a much higher fare....

BTW I heard once that SNBA should have approximately (it depends on the yields of course) a Loadfactor of 55% to be able to make profit. If that's the case, they have a far better structure than VEX has. Especially when you see that VEX looses money with very high loads.

Chris
8)

Post by **sn26567** » 14 Feb 2004, 18:20

Avro wrote:As Sabena_690 allready told you, SNBA has also business pax and they pay a much higher fare....

Not very many, believe my experience.

Sabena_690 · Post by **Sabena_690** » 14 Feb 2004, 18:26

I agree André, but when you have 5 people in C-class paying €1000 each for a return (€5000 in total), VEX needs about 30 passengers to get the same amount of revenues. And we haven't spoken yet about the full-fare Y tickets, + the fact that the cheapest SN fares are slightly more expensive than the VEX fares.

Frederic

sabena4ever · Post by **sabena4ever** » 14 Feb 2004, 18:54

Sabena_690 wrote:I agree André, but when you have 5 people in C-class paying €1000 each for a return (€5000 in total), VEX needs about 30 passengers to get the same amount of revenues.

Frederic

So, If I understand well, SNBA is a business company, who doesn't need to fill in its planes !!!
That's why the load factor is so weak!!!

Anyway, it's too easy to say Sabena was a "bad" company now!!!I cannot agree with it

d

Avro · Post by **Avro** » 14 Feb 2004, 18:58

sabena4ever wrote: So, If I understand well, SNBA is a business company, who doesn't need to fill in its planes !!!
That's why the load factor is so weak!!!

Of course they need to fill their planes, but they need on average a lower loadfactor as VEX to breakeven.

Luxair is the best example for that. They have a lot of business pax, and a average loadfactors that are just of the 50% and still make money

It all depends on your companies structure and market orientation (business or not)

Ciao
Chris
8)

Sabena_690 · Post by **Sabena_690** » 14 Feb 2004, 18:58

I don't say that SN doesn't have to fill its planes, Sabena4ever!

Volume is also very important, but when you can fill your aircraft with premium traffic, you can indeed have a profitable flight with a low load factor.

I have to check the facts presented by BA a week ago, but I believe that 10% of their pax flies premium, and that those 10% are responsible for 25% of the "sales" (omzet).

Frederic

sabena4ever · Post by **sabena4ever** » 14 Feb 2004, 20:07

Sabena_690 wrote:I don't say that SN doesn't have to fill its planes, Sabena4ever!
Volume is also very important, but when you can fill your aircraft with premium traffic, you can indeed have a profitable flight with a low load factor.
Frederic

ok thanks Avro and Frederic
but the facts are SNBA can't fill in its planes!!!

You say that SNBA fares are slightly expensiver than Virgin Fares, but SNBA offers a better service
So, why SNBA isn't able to fill in its plane, and Virgin do ???

d