Ryanair in talks with Boeing

[airazurxtror]

Ryanair is in talks with Boeing with a view to order 200 737-800 for delivery in 2015, 16 and 17.
http://www.independent.ie/business/iris ... 47205.html

[sn26567]

So, no MAX yet? Ryanair's fleet is poised to become less efficient...

And then the predictions of MOL concerning competition: "SAS Group, which owns Scandinavian Airlines, can't continue to rely on funding from Sweden, Denmark and Norway and is most likely to end up as a unit of Deutsche Lufthansa, while Poland's LOT has little room to pare operations that are already much reduced", Mr O'Leary said.

[AvroRider]

Read the article, it is about the MAX and not the -800 "Mr O'Leary said that Ryanair is looking for deliveries in 2015, 2016 and 2017 – the year that Boeing's upgraded 737 Max jetliner is due to enter service."

[RoMax]

Read the article, it is about the MAX and not the -800 "Mr O'Leary said that Ryanair is looking for deliveries in 2015, 2016 and 2017 – the year that Boeing's upgraded 737 Max jetliner is due to enter service."

And what does that say (nothing personal, more towards the author of the article)?? The 737MAX deliveries start in 2017, tough with the current amount of firm orders already, I doubt there are many delivery slots left for 2017/2018, let asside 2015-2016 (when the MAX is not even produced, so how can they get deliveries then). Besides, Boeing will produce the NG and the MAX next to eachother for a while, you can't simply change from one type to another in one day/week/month. So as long as orders come in, Boeing will still be producing NG's in 2017-2018.

RYR previously made VERY clear they hate the MAX (yes it's better as the NG, but they wanted a new aircraft and MOL is not happy with the fact that Boeing ignored RYR's wish). Later the indicated they may order more -800NG's, but that it's less likely they'll order the MAX.

[sdbelgium]

It's about the NG, not the MAX. Boeing still has about 1.000 slots to fill with the NG before MAX production and deliveries in 2017 start.

[tolipanebas]

Of course its about the NG.

Ryanair wants planes badly, yet the public display of corporate arrogance right after the previous deal with Boeing makes it very difficult for MOL to strike a new deal with either Airbus or Boeing in future, because neither of them wants to be seen doing any significant new business with him any longer.

Profits are always lower on large plane deals, but then they help to keep the order book filled during periods of lowered sales, yet contrary to last time neither Airbus or Boeing have any problem filling their order books, so already they are less tempted to sign these kind of orders. On top of that they know they can only get bad publicity and loads of questions from critical shareholders over any large deal with Ryanair: MOL must have learnt the hard way he should have kept his mouth shut last time round as he was shown the door at Airbus as well as Boeing repeatedly each time he came to talk about the MAX and the NEO, so now he must settle for soon to be old generation planes, hoping he can get Boeing to sell him the end of the production run of the NG as maybe that is something they could still justify doing: Otherwise he's seriously screwed.

What's it going to be MOL:
Expensive old planes?
Even more expensive new planes?
Or no planes at all and bye bye expansion plans?

[regi]

question is what the break even point is for a special designed airplane.
200 bodies is already something.
I do however understand that the cost involves also training, maintenance + spare part programs, communality,...
Just a simple example: imagine that someone comes up with 4-3 seating. ( if allowed in single aisle row?, don't know )

The large Airbus order for Airasia has taken away some capacity.
But for 200 bodies, you can construct a manufacturing plant in JV somewhere in Brasil, India, Mexico or why not in real LCC such as Bulgaria , with a lot of EU support? or even today's Spain, Portugal, Greece.

I remember that in the past it was said that Ryanair will always stick to Boeing. Could be , untill the moment that Boeing decides not to stick to Ryanair...

[LJ]

The large Airbus order for Airasia has taken away some capacity.
But for 200 bodies, you can construct a manufacturing plant in JV somewhere in Brasil, India, Mexico or why not in real LCC such as Bulgaria , with a lot of EU support? or even today's Spain, Portugal, Greece.

Airbus won't be building another new factory besides the one they're going to built in Mobile. It's already very difficult to mange such a project for in new factory, building two at the same time eats too much capacity from management. Moreover, one can't built a factory in a few years (AFAIK the Mobile plant is scheduled to open untill 2016).

[Stij]

...Just a simple example: imagine that someone comes up with 4-3 seating. ( if allowed in single aisle row?, don't know )...

Wasn't the Trident 4+3?

Kind regards,

Stij

[sn26567]

Wasn't the Trident 4+3?

For as far as I remember (and it really has to go far in my memory), the Trident was 3+3. But I could be wrong.

[Pleasonton]

This what I found on Wikipedia there were at least two aircraft with 7 abreast.

"Hawker Siddeley then proposed an improved 1C, the Trident 1E. This would use 11,400 lbf (50.7 kN) Spey 511s, have a gross weight of 128,000 lb (58,000 kg), an increased wing area by extending the chord, and the same fuselage but with up to 140 seats in a six-abreast configuration. This specification took the 1C closer to the larger concept of the original DH121, but powered with 7,000 lbf (31 kN) less thrust. There were only a few sales of the new design: three each for Kuwait Airways and Iraqi Airways, four for PIA (later sold to CAAC), two each for Channel Airways and Northeast Airlines, and one for Air Ceylon. Channel Airways aircraft were operated with cramped, 21" pitch, seven-abreast seating in the forward section."

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawker_Siddeley_Trident

If we are talking about the same Tridant .

[Stij]

If we are talking about the same Tridant .

Yup, that's the one!

Cheers,

Stij

[tolipanebas]

A 7 abreast configuration on a narrow body is no longer allowed as each seat must be within 2 seats from an aisle for evacuation purposes, so 6 is the maximum (on a narrowbody).

[regi]

A 7 abreast configuration on a narrow body is no longer allowed as each seat must be within 2 seats from an aisle for evacuation purposes, so 6 is the maximum (on a narrowbody).

and was is the specification of a narrow body?

[tolipanebas]

A 7 abreast configuration on a narrow body is no longer allowed as each seat must be within 2 seats from an aisle for evacuation purposes, so 6 is the maximum (on a narrowbody).

and was is the specification of a narrow body?

Do you mean wide body?

The same principle applies, meaning a seatblock of 3 (when a window seat is involved) or a seatblock of 5 (in case of a seatblock at 2 aisles) is the legal maximum these days, so in theory 11 abreast (2x3 + 1x5) is the maximum on a widebody, unless you'd go to more than 2 aisles...

[cnc]

A 7 abreast configuration on a narrow body is no longer allowed as each seat must be within 2 seats from an aisle for evacuation purposes, so 6 is the maximum (on a narrowbody).

and was is the specification of a narrow body?

having only a single aisle?

[tolipanebas]

Oh, I got the question now!

Indeed, a narrow body can be seen as having just a single aisle, whereas a wide body has 2.

[andorra-airport]

I remember Airbus had a twin aisle option for the A320. Never happened.

[sn26567]

Back to the topic!

Michael O’Leary confirmed in Rome on Jan. 22 that there is no aircraft order imminent and none that is expected until perhaps the end of calendar 2013 or early 2014, at the earliest.

He had previously ruled out the Boeing 737 MAX because it would attract more expensive airport charges, since it weight is higher than that of the 737-800. He prefers to pick up “end-of-line” Boeing 737-800 NextGeneration (or Airbus A320ceo, which has not yet been ruled out) at bargain prices. He will then be able to boast that he got his aircraft cheaper than the competition.

[earthman]

Dear Michael,

We have enough orders to keep us busy for the next 7 years. And sure, we have special priority slots for special customers, but although you certainly are 'special', it is not the kind of special we had in mind.

Kind regards,
Boeing