15 top intercontinental destinations out of BRU

[b-west]

Just asked the Singaporean next to me... The country is named after the city Pura means city btw. And SQ's origins lie with MSA, Malaysia Singapore airlines, from before Singapore became a state.

[Air Key West]

We're completely off topic, but we all can learn something by doing some research (although not really related to aviation). As a compromise to make everybody happy, one could say Singapore is a city-state.
So, everybody is right. It's a city and it's a State.
However, it is officially more a State than just a city.
To quote the Singapore Constitution : Singapore shall be a sovereign republic known as the Republic of Singapore (see below, excerpt form the Constitution)
http://statutes.agc.gov.sg/aol/search/d ... =0#pr3-he-.
And going back a little in history, it was said about the 1963 Singaporean General Elections that it was the only election ever to be held in Singapore while Singapore was still a state of Malaysia.
One can consider Singapore as being a city, but it is officially a country.

As to some other airlines mentioned here which bear the name of a city, Amsterdam Airlines and VASP went bankrupt, In "Etihad Airways" the word "etihad" means "union" (so no reference to a city) and most other airlines are regional airlines, except for Air Berlin (which also in a difficult financial situation).

Unless somoene strongly disagrees with this, he should, of course, say so. Freedom of expression.
Otherwise, can we try and go back "on topic"

[RoMax]

What a nice discussion. Singapore is a city-state. And yes it's more a state than a city.
And yes Sabena (and the briliant S-tail) was known all over the world. But when you relaunch a new airline, with the old name, people will not have the feeling of a new company. They'll continue to see the new Sabena as the airline in trouble (and their service wasn't at the historical high level either). Except for the aviation enthousiasts, many Belgian people and many African people, Sabena is nothing more than a failed airline that lost their pride they had in the past.
So they needed a new name and which are the strongest brands we have here (doesn't mean they are strong all over the world...)? Belgium and Brussels (I can go and look up some numbers, but that doesn't mean a lot either, I can say Flanders for example is much worse). Brussels is way better known (and no not only for the bad things, besides, the bad things are often as good advertisement as good things) than Belgium. Many Americans for exemple recognise Brussels, but they don't know what Belgium is.

On the other hand, they shouldn't have dropped the S-tail, that was just a too strong brand (and not so heavily loaded as the name Sabena). So Flanker, I agree with you on that, but I never denied that either. But I never supported the merger with Virgin either. In my opinion SN should have lost time and money with the merger with Virgin and the following rebranding. SN Brussels Airlines was in Europe already known as a quite high service airline, they lost all that in the merger. They lost the strongest brand in Belgian aviation history. They got an outdated LCC-fleet. They got a network where they're losing money. ...

[sn26567]

All this discussion still does not reveal which are the 15 top Intercontinental destinations out of Brussels. Tolipanebas, you started the discussion (in another topic), can you enlighten us?

[A330]

Some years ago I came across a presentation on the internet. It was about about Brussels Airport, and their plan to connect Brussels to the "most important" cities of the world. I don't think I still have it, it was about more than 15 destinations. But it won't differ that much of course.
Let's do a proposal for the 15 destinations: YUL, ORD, JFK, SFO, LAX, GRU, JNB, DEL, SIN, BKK, HKG, PEK, NRT, ICN and DXB. That would leave out destinations like YYZ, IAD, BOM, and PVG. Did I miss any others that should certainly be up there?
6 of the 15 are indeed already connected directly/nonstop with BRU.

edit: it is PVG which is out.

[Inquirer]

Some years ago I came across a presentation on the internet. It was about about Brussels Airport, and their plan to connect Brussels to the "most important" cities of the world. I don't think I still have it, it was about more than 15 destinations. But it won't differ that much of course.
Let's do a proposal for the 15 destinations: YUL, ORD, JFK, SFO, LAX, GRU, JNB, DEL, SIN, BKK, HKG, PEK, NRT, ICN and DXB. That would leave out destinations like YYZ, IAD, BOM, and ICN. Did I miss any others that should certainly be up there?
6 of the 15 are indeed already connected directly/nonstop with BRU.

That seems like a plausible list to me: is it ordered in any particular order, or just randomly?

Personally, I'd have IAD in the list too as I can image there to be quite some political traffic between Washington and Brussels, but I dont know what to pull off them: maybe Dubai? How many people are going there, not just to connect, to as final destination? I suppose not that many...

[A330]

Not related to importance. I just started in North America, followed by South America, Africa, and Asia.
You might indeed include IAD, but who's out? DXB is a candidate. I also don't see SN going there.
In a sense it would be easier to do a top20. I already wrote down 19, perhaps only add TLV?
If SN/LH want to connect these destinations to BRU (or viceversa), SN would sure have a nice network if they served SFO or LAX, GRU, HKG, YUL (assuming they ever take over that route). Still a very long way to go.

[OO-ITR]

All this discussion still does not reveal which are the 15 top Intercontinental destinations out of Brussels. Tolipanebas, you started the discussion (in another topic), can you enlighten us?

I do want to make a rectification here. It was me who decided to start this topic. Indeed it was tolipanebas who mentioned the 15 top intercontinental destinations from BRU in another topic but I launched this topic.
I don't know if he has more info on these destinations. Bernard Gustin has mentioned this top 15 several times in the press and in meetings.

I wanted to start this topic to know these 15 destinations. Meanwhile we had a bunch of info that doesn't have anything to do with this topic. Discussion about Singapore being a city or not, discussions about the name of Brussels Airlines. Discussion what the next destination of SN should be and about DEN, JNB being that choice. Discussions about AA and 9W pulling out their JFK flight. TAP leaving star or not.
I don't what all this has to do with the topic. In fact most of these items have been discussed over and over again.

There have been a few attempts to make up a list ( thanks to SabenaForever, Air Key West, A330 for trying to take this topic in the right direction).
I decided to start this topic to have more info about the top 15 intercontinental destinations out of BRU (volume of passengers). Some of these destinations don't have a direct link from BRU.
Maybe we can continue on the ideas that A330 gave us.
Or maybe someone has a link to a website with more info ( statistics, market research ...)

Thanks for your contribution!

[SabenaForever]

I do want to make a rectification here. It was me who decided to start this topic. Indeed it was tolipanebas who mentioned the 15 top intercontinental destinations from BRU in another topic but I launched this topic.
I don't know if he has more info on these destinations. Bernard Gustin has mentioned this top 15 several times in the press and in meetings.

I wanted to start this topic to know these 15 destinations. Meanwhile we had a bunch of info that doesn't have anything to do with this topic. Discussion about Singapore being a city or not, discussions about the name of Brussels Airlines. Discussion what the next destination of SN should be and about DEN, JNB being that choice. Discussions about AA and 9W pulling out their JFK flight. TAP leaving star or not.
I don't what all this has to do with the topic. In fact most of these items have been discussed over and over again.

There have been a few attempts to make up a list ( thanks to SabenaForever, Air Key West, A330 for trying to take this topic in the right direction).
I decided to start this topic to have more info about the top 15 intercontinental destinations out of BRU (volume of passengers). Some of these destinations don't have a direct link from BRU.
Maybe we can continue on the ideas that A330 gave us.
Or maybe someone has a link to a website with more info ( statistics, market research ...)

Thanks for your contribution!

Totally right! Topics are going more and more in the wrong direction....

My full list:

- IAD
- ORD
- JFK
- BKK
- PEK
- NRT
- JNB
- GRU
- SIN
- HKG
- FIH
- DXB
- HKG
- SFO
- BOS

[Air Key West]

maybe someone has a link to a website with more info ( statistics, market research ...)

Indeed, what we would need are statistics indicating the top of final non European destinations of pax starting their journey in BRU and of pax connecting at BRU to direct long-haul flights.
Otherwise, we (including me) are making contributions based on either a personal (sometimes subjective) perception or on personal wishes. Nothing wrong with that. But it would be interesting to have official stats (are they confidential ? cannot imagine they are). So, who's going to help us get them ?

[Charlie Roy]

Someone should ask anna.aero to do an analysis

[andorra-airport]

Indeed, what we would need are statistics indicating the top of final non European destinations of pax starting their journey in BRU and of pax connecting at BRU to direct long-haul flights.

Here you go. List is for 2010 + 2011

http://www.brusselsairport.be/en/cf/res ... trends2011

[OO-ITR]

Indeed, what we would need are statistics indicating the top of final non European destinations of pax starting their journey in BRU and of pax connecting at BRU to direct long-haul flights.

Here you go. List is for 2010 + 2011

http://www.brusselsairport.be/en/cf/res ... trends2011

Thanks Andorra. Interesting info for us can be found on page 18
1. NY (all airports)
2. Casablanca
3. Chicago ( down for almost 20% but I guess that is due to AA stopping the ORD flight)
4. tel Aviv
5. Washington
6. Montreal
7. Abu Dhabi
8. Toronto
9. Delhi
10. Mumbai

As you can see all these destinations already have a connection.

[Traveller]

We are really missing:
Brussels-Seoul (ICN)
Brussels-Miami
Brussels-any South American city
Brussels-Hong Kong
...

[Inquirer]

Indeed, what we would need are statistics indicating the top of final non European destinations of pax starting their journey in BRU and of pax connecting at BRU to direct long-haul flights.

Here you go. List is for 2010 + 2011

http://www.brusselsairport.be/en/cf/res ... trends2011

What we can find there are the 10 intercontinental destinations attracting the most passengers from BRU, but what we really need are the FINAL intercontinental destinations of passengers from Belgium.

Let me explain the difference: AUH for instance is most certainly not a very popular destination on its own, if it wasn't for connecting through to other destinations. Most people going to AUH are in fact continuing to somewhere else, yet it is still AUH shown in this list, whereas it should really be their final destination which is of interest, because if a lot of them are going to the same place, it means there's a market for a nonstop flight there on its own from BRU, bypassing AUH.

Same for all passengers not flying through BRU even to reach those places: we need to have a better picture of the final interecontinental destinations of Belgians which now fly via European hubs like LHR/FRA/AMS etc, because now you only find them in the numbers of European flights.

It's an interesting document for sure, but pretty useless in this particular topic, IMHO, because as OO-ITR noticed, from the list of top intercontinental destinations, all of them already have a connection: of course, otherwise they couldn't be in this kind of a list even!
See what I mean?

[travellover]

My full list:

- IAD
- ORD
- JFK
- BKK
- PEK
- NRT
- JNB
- GRU
- SIN
- HKG
- FIH
- DXB
- HKG
- SFO
- BOS

- BKK : dec 2012 : TG
- PEK : dec 2012 : HU

Other times but not wishful thinking for the near future :
in 2001, Sabena was linking BRU to

- IAD : dec 2012 : UA
- ORD : dec 2012 : UA
- JFK : dec 2012 : SN, DL
- EWR : dec 2012 : UA
- FIH : dec 2012 : SN
- BOS : dec 2012 : no direct pax flights
- NRT : dec 2012 : no direct pax flights
- JNB : dec 2012 : no direct pax flights
- GRU : dec 2012 : no direct pax flights

SQ, now a * partner
- SIN : dec 2012 : no direct pax flights
connected with BRU from 1979 until march 2003, BRU remains a SQ cargo hub.

No direct pax flights ever between BRU and
- HKG

Destinations launched in the eighties :

- DXB (Sabena)
- SFO (People Express)

[sn26567]

- SFO (People Express)

Indeed, with a launch price of $49 one-way. Did you say unsustainable?

[A330]

It's an interesting document for sure, but pretty useless in this particular topic, IMHO, because as OO-ITR noticed, from the list of top intercontinental destinations, all of them already have a connection: of course, otherwise they couldn't be in this kind of a list even!
See what I mean?

Pretty logic, if you take a report of BRU airport on the passenger numbers to BRU's intercontinental destinations, all of those are connected to BRU. But it is a start of course. It does give us an overview of the current number of flights and passengers to the top10.
I didn't expect to see Casablanca and TLV that high on the list. But otherwise, destinations like DOH, BKK and PEK are not daily. Is PHL daily? I would have expected FIH in the top10.
Two more remarks/questions:
1 To what extent are the numbers for e.g. DEL and BOM taking into account transfer/transit passengers of 9W. Can't be this is only O&D BRU-DEL?
2 Also interesting to compare Europe with intercontinental. NY (EWR+JFK) has slightly more passengers than MAD, the most important European destination, around 580.000. Making NY the most important destination out of BRU (direct).

[convair]

I don't know how Brussels Airport statistics are computed but on page 8, they indicate, for 2011, 730 flights to both Mumbay and Delhi. If I'm not mistaken, there was (and still is) only 1 flight per day to both "destinations", i.e. 365 per year. Is it possible that these statistics cover both "destination" AND "origin" despite the title on that page 8? I know statistics always have to be read with care; this would be one more example.

[travellover]

There is one flight a day for each destination,both of them offering 365 + 365 days, so 730 flights a year should be correct. 9W227/228 daily to Mumbai, 9W229/230 daily to Delhi.