700 jobs threatened at Brussels Airlines?

[Bracebrace]

I just read an article saying that there is a big shortage of pilots in the US.

Then how come forums overthere are full of people who used to be in a big airline, who are still sitting at home waiting to be re-called back in by their employer?

[sn26567]

Read it by yourself in The Wall Street Journal!

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 23634.html

[BrusselsAirlines]

HALLELUJAH! Thx for that! Finally a reliable news source that confirms what is happening real time.

What did we expect? Training costs of 100.000 to 150.000€ without any job guarantee, an aging pilot community and a continuous air travel expansion wordwide.

Sounds pretty logical to me.

At BruAir in 1 month 3 young Airbus FO's left - bond or not - you don't let 10.000€ withold you to explore a new career. Just not the people you wanted to see leaving...

Maybe articles like these can open the eyes of our HR dep. who does not (want to) understand why pilots are considered as a specialised profession with the need for more or less COMPETITIVE salary packages (worldwide).

No, an airline cannot be a pyramid, nor any other succesful cpy anno 2013. Even in other businesses this structure is outdated, maybe time to google Herman Wijffels - Lowlands University.

[teddybAIR]

The numbers of the WSJ-article are factually correct, and beyond discussion. Yet, we cannot conclude that the factors mentionned in the article will effectively lead to pilot shortage. Although I must say I have had discussions with numerous industry insiders who warned for the effects of changing the pilot retirement age from 60 to 65 a few years ago. That measure bought some time, but did not solve the underlying problem. But curious to see what will happen!

[jan_olieslagers]

One word against another word... Mr. Sullenberger of Hudson fame is less certain.
http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news/Pi ... 684-1.html

[Pocahontas]

Where did those 3 F/O Airbus go to? Emirates?

Kind regards,
Pocahontas

[teddybAIR]

I have the impression that Sullenberger critiques the way airlines dramatize the consequences of the pilot shortage, rather than the raw numbers of the pilot shortage.

[Flanker]

Sully is right. There is no pilot shortage, not in Europe, not in the US.
Talented and skilled youngsters are leaving the skilled positions of the airline industry in masses, because terms and conditions no longer make it interesting to work in it. There is still plenty of supply from below though, from people who would do such jobs at any cost or from people who get tricked into thinking that they have found a niche that no one has looked at.

The skilled workers, especially in engineering branches of airlines, move on to work for other industries such as energy, bio and pharmaceuticals, or financial departments of large corporations, where they can earn 3 or 4 times the money, have a normal family life, and be respected for what they do.
Many also move on to become self-employed and establish consulting firms for different industries.
As for the young skilled pilots, they leave for better horizons, where flying is still a happy experience where they are paid accordingly, respected and appreciated for what they do.

The truth is that there is still pleeeenty of supply, thanks to schools like Embry Riddle and CAE, who are good at selling dreams.

Just look at the situation in Belgium: there are twice as many flight schools than there are airlines...
Same story in the US, where there are thousands of flight schools across the Nation, churning pilots out by the thousands.

[BrusselsAirlines]

Yep, guess so, heard they have restarted 777 deliveries & training.

Flanker, spot on. I guess they will use this article asap in their brochures

[tolipanebas]

Indeed,

For once I fully agree with Flanker! Who would have thought!

I can't say it enough: don't believe for a second what the flight schools are telling you, guys: you'll be paying 100K+ and have a 99% guarantee on unemployment at the end of your training.

The fact is almost nobody is hiring in Europe and the days airlines in India or Asia are hiring ab initio's who can hardly fly upright are over too, you know? They have their own flightschools and students to fill the right seats of those many hundreds of Airbus and Boeing planes on order that your flightschool is pointing at when trying to lure you into their classrooms.

If you have many thousand hours of experience on a large commercial jet, then yes, you will quite easily be able to jump to the East and earn good money overthere at one of the booming majors in desperate need of people able to take command of their growing fleet of widebodies, especially as Belgian pilots have a very good reputation, but forget it they will hire somebody without previous experience and with just a few hundred hours of flighttime on the basis of some glossy C.V. compiled by your flighschool!

And no, don't think your school is better or your study path is different: it does not impress an A330 check captain if you come and tell him in all possible details about your 'heroic flights' on a DA42 during your job interview, believe me... FWIW, you'll most likely be the 500th candidate to show him the identical 'personal file' of which you are so proud, with just the name of the candidate changed by your flightschool.

Studying for pilot in Europe today is the guaranteed most expensive way to apply for a job at pizzahut, believe me!

[BrusselsAirlines]

Sad but true.

Nevertheless I have good hopes for a better future!

[FlightMate]

And maybe now might just be the perfect time to start your training!

By the time you finish it, in 2-3 years, you might find a job more easily than at present times.

It is often the same story, look at IT professionals, nurses, teachers.
Today we don't need them, so nobody wants to start their studies. And in 3-4 years time, big shortage, so everybody wants to study again. Problem is that it takes 3-4 years to complete the studies. And by then... etc, etc...

Look at how was the pilots' market in Belgium 4 years ago, and why we have so many freshly trained young pilots now.

Nobody can tell what b.air will become in 3-4 years, but if they don't go bankrupt, I expect them to need pilots in 3 years, because of retirements, expansion, and experienced pilots leaving for better paid jobs.

[Pocahontas]

off topic: Jan Olieslagers was gisteren op Canvas Nu weet ik waarvan je nick komt...

[teddybAIR]

All true! But since recently I apply the "niet geschoten is altijd mis" logic. I know chances of employment are slim, I know I face another 50k€ expense. But I also know I am having a blast for the moment in my ATPL training. So the real question: knowing chances are slim, what do you want to risk? Now, that's a very personal question for every individual.

I had to renew my 'bevoegdverklaring SEP(A)' on my PPL license last month. Everytime I go to the CCN in Brussels, I am amased about how many people enrolled for the ATPL exam that day! So yes, there is an abundance of low-hour pilots. The flight schools keep providing them. But no, there is no abundance of experienced pilots. Unfortunately, there isn't a single FTO that trains you up to the level of an experienced F/O, since you need at least +/- 1.500 hrs to unfreeze your ATPL. But the sad truth is that if one day you want to become experienced, you have to start at the bottom of the ladder...

But let's stay real: Brussels Airlines is rationalising flight ops, just read Iberia is downscaling and that SAS is in dire straits as well...the picture ain't pretty.

[tolipanebas]

Nobody can tell what b.air will become in 3-4 years, but if they don't go bankrupt, I expect them to need pilots in 3 years, because of retirements, expansion, and experienced pilots leaving for better paid jobs.

FWIW, SN is projecting to still have an excess of 27 pilots in summer 2015 and that is INCLUDING retirements and INCLUDING 2 new daily long haul routes to be added by then, so your hope of them recruting full blast in a couple of years if the turnaround plan succeeds is not very realistic.

I certainly wouldn't speculate on there being hundreds of vacancies in 3 years, for instance, but that depends of course on how much money you think €100K truly is.

[JAFflyer]

@ Teddybair: when I started, the aviation wasn't pretty. It was 2 years after 2001 and in my first 2 months sobelair went bust aswell. But when I graduated, I was lucky. Airliners were inviting me over for interviews and it took 4 months before I got my seat (no, no additional TR costs and I did work at the airport during these 4 months). So enjoy your training to the full. The rest you'll see when you are done.

[teddybAIR]

Hi JAFFlyer,

That is the spirit! Check PM at the next convenience

Best regards,
bAIR

[tolipanebas]

It's all nice to keep the spirit, but you need to stay solvent as well.

Studying for pilot today is a €100K gamble, so unless you can pay that money in cash, I wouldn't risk it: I have seen all too many drama's of people being forced out of their house because they offered it as guarantee for the loan of their son, dreaming of becoming a pilot... Wanna now the full picture today?
He's working double shifts in pizzahut to make a living and pay back his parents, mom and dad are renting a little appartment in town and sister isnt talking to them any longer because she understood her brother caused his parents to burn the whole family's asset and there will most likely be nothing left for her so she can't study for architect.

Sorry for bringing bad news, but I feel the flightschools are telling outright lies to naive people who want to realize their dream and you can't even blame them for doing so: they are having to stick to their business plan too and that calls for X trainees at €100K to keep paying the bills on infrastructure, plane lease and staff.

Never wondered why in the middle of the deepest aviation recession ever in Europe, there isn't a single flightschool going bust, whereas almost every airline is laying off pilots or cutting back on flying, if they manage to survive that is?

Don't believe your flightschool: now is NOT the time to start studying: come back next year and see if the market has improved by then: if it is, you can start then and you'll still be ready too soon; if it isn't, you'll just saved yourself €100K and a lot of misery and frustration.

[fcw]

I agree with tolipanebas!
Recently Thomas Cook recruited 5 cadets for a 6 month contract next summer, they had over 500 candidates!
JAFflyer has a job, but many of his friends who graduated with him never made it into aviation and are still paying back their training costs.
Flight schools will tell you about X, Y and Z who made into JAF, FR, EZY... and who make loads of money. But they wont tell you about A, B, C,..., W who are still looking for a job years after they graduated.
If it is your dream, go for it, but be prepared to wake up from a nightmare one day.

[BrusselsAirlines]

Heard there is a special meeting at thomas cook airlines where all are invited...

Is that so??