Brussels Airlines future and financial perspective

[airazurxtror]

If your favourite airline would not get all those unfair subsidies from local and regional governments, they would also be loss making.

May I remind you that your favorite airline was offered the same so-called subsidies enjoyed by Ryanair, Jetairfly and Wizzair at CRL - and that they contemptuously refused them ?

[Inquirer]

If your favourite airline would not get all those unfair subsidies from local and regional governments, they would also be loss making.

May I remind you that your favorite airline was offered the same so-called subsidies enjoyed by Ryanair, Jetairfly and Wizzair at CRL - and that they contemptuously refused them ?

At BRU???

I think the bottom line is BRU is overly expensive; they still charge fees as if it is the 1990s and it may be a good idea if the airlines based at the airport push for a significant price cut, all together.

I may have it wrong, but for me the 2 fields where there is the biggest operating cost differences right now are on the social/fiscal field and the airport field: with the first one said to being tackled by our government, how much longer before the second will have to give in too?

Let's be honnest: close to 30 euro of airport fee for a short haul passenger is no longer in line with today's market conditions.

just my opinion.

[airazurxtror]

I may have it wrong, but for me the 2 fields where there is the biggest operating cost differences right now are on the social/fiscal field and the airport field: with the first one said to being tackled by our government, how much longer before the second will have to give in too?

There is sure an operating cost difference between a basic airport like CRL (one runway, a small no-fuss terminal) and a large airport like BRU (three runways, vast marble-plated terminal with three piers); but you can't decently demand that the airport fees be the same.

[Inquirer]

I may have it wrong, but for me the 2 fields where there is the biggest operating cost differences right now are on the social/fiscal field and the airport field: with the first one said to being tackled by our government, how much longer before the second will have to give in too?

There is sure an operating cost difference between a basic airport like CRL (one runway, a small no-fuss terminal) and a large airport like BRU (three runways, vast marble-plated terminal with three piers); but you can't decently demand that the airport fees be the same.

No ideed, but should they be 10 times fold? I don't know, I am just asking.

I find it striking that so far airport fees at BRU seem to be the only thing which have escaped the push for a review following the advent of competition via small regional airports: customers at BRU are still paying fees as if we're still the 1990s/early 2000s and as if the world hasn't changed.

A comparable airport like CPH -which I fly to this evening and can hardly be called a small airport in a poor country, can it?- can have 3 runways and huge modern terminals with airport fees of around 20 euro for instance and still be profitable, so it's beyond me why BRU thinks it is justified to ask 30% more for basically the same?

Based on what I see when I fly around Europe, airport fees between 17 and 20 euro would be justified for an airport the size and infrastructure of BRU: they currently charge almost 30 euro however, or 10 euro too much per passenger!

In my view its high time BRU slash their fees and adopt their working methods and corporate structure to be able to live with those kinds of revenues, just as basically all other medium size hub airports in Europe have done already. Simply pretending the world around you hasn't changed and billing your customers ever more ridiculously high fees while you live in your own protected world is obviously no long term option if BRU wants to grow its activities further, which they say they want.

[fcw]

http://www.demorgen.be/dm/nl/996/Econom ... list.dhtml

LH is still undecided about a takeover of BruAir.
They better decide quickly, because how much longer can BruAir survive without german money?

[Bralo20]

They better decide quickly, because how much longer can BruAir survive without german money?

They can still manage to continue some years from now on, afaik they can still manage to continue about 3 to 4 years before it's getting urgent.

[fcw]

They can still manage to continue some years from now on, afaik they can still manage to continue about 3 to 4 years before it's getting urgent.

You can find the figures here (http://www.vanhecke.com/search/?nameOrT ... s+airlines)
and judge for yourself. I would say BruAir is in intensive care!

[Inquirer]

They can still manage to continue some years from now on, afaik they can still manage to continue about 3 to 4 years before it's getting urgent.

You can find the figures here (http://www.vanhecke.com/search/?nameOrT ... s+airlines)
and judge for yourself. I would say BruAir is in intensive care!

So you first ask a question and then provide the answer yourself? What's the point of all this?

Besides, isn't the airline owned by a holding company having access to supplementary drawing rights with its stake holders? Looking at the balance sheet of just the airline alone is quite pointless, other than to conclude they aren't making any money at present. One can not derive total reserve from it.

[Flanker]

So why don't you walk us through the balance sheet of SN Airholdings and tell us what the net worth of the holding company is? We've walked you all through it a couple of times already, now it's time to see for yourself.

Actually fcw is right. To keep the balance sheet of Brussels Airlines artificially positive for the sake of operations, the parent company is being sucked dry. Life support or intensive care is a good term to describe it.

Apparently some union-management meeting are scheduled for this week, SN doesn't want to downsize, but at the same time it has to. I've said it a long time ago, they have to cut the unprofitable routes intra-EU, and shift the money to longhaul in a smart way and stop trying to stay in their narrow fish bowl.

The Africa narrowbody ops would increase their aircraft productivity and would avoid the need to downsize staffing. In exchange, crews would have to operate red-eye services, but if I had the choice between that and being on the streets, ...
The revenue environment is tough for high fare airlines, an awful lot of people are shifting towards LCC. The only way to retain the customers is to reduce the fares by using fuel efficient equipment and offer much better value for money.
They also need to find a way to appeal to families, which is the market segment that they are losing completely. For a family of 5, 1500 euro's, which for many is more than a month's pay, is just too much to spend only on air fares.






http://www.airlinesanddestinations.com/ ... red-cabin/

[RoMax]

Cargo Manager Herman Hoornaert said the cargo department of Brussels Airlines is not hit by the planned savings of Brussels Airlines. The department is still doing great, they even have room left in their budget.
African routes are still bringing in quite some money for SN, for a large part thanks to cargo.
The reason not to go on with Mombassa was partly because Thomas Cook pulled back, but also partly because SN wouldn't have a lot of cargo revenues on these fligths. The combination of these two factors ment that Mombassa was not a good idea. In turn they got an extra flight to Kigali, both on the pax side and on the cargo side, a flight that will give them more revenues/higher yields.
Hoornaert also said things seem to be improving in Dakar (about the bilateral agreement between Senegal and Belgium). Currently SN is not allowed to fly out of DKR to another African destination, but that may soon change again. If so, that would have a great effect on the costs.

http://www.delloyd.be/Article/tabid/231 ... fault.aspx

btw, it's still clear why SN's using A330's and not 767/757 or even A319's to Africa...cargo is the big business on many of these destinations.

[FLYAIR10]

The department is still doing great, they even have room left in their budget.
African routes are still bringing in quite some money for SN, for a large part thanks to cargo.

btw, it's still clear why SN's using A330's and not 767/757 or even A319's to Africa...cargo is the big business on many of these destinations.

Combining those statements,and if Cargo is bringing really so much money, would there not be an opportunity to introduce a A-330F ? SN has the pilots and the africa know how,etc..
Grtz.

[RoMax]

Combining those statements,and if Cargo is bringing really so much money, would there not be an opportunity to introduce a A-330F ? SN has the pilots and the africa know how,etc..
Grtz.

I believe that may work for certain African routes, but I don't believe SN is considering this. It will add even more complexity to an airline that's already quite complex compared to its size. I believe SN feels comfortable with their current African network where they combine cargo and pax in one aircraft.

[cnc]

Combining those statements,and if Cargo is bringing really so much money, would there not be an opportunity to introduce a A-330F ? SN has the pilots and the africa know how,etc..
Grtz.

the A330F is way too expensive and has too much capacity.
there is a massive step between belly cargo and full freighter ops
btw full freighter ops wouldn't make money

[convair]

Given the fact that LH has stated they believe BRU hub to have more potential than what is currently used, that they, apparently, want to become, at some later stage, full owner of an improved SN, that SN (and LH) see a real possibility of expansion for long-haul flights from BRU, that such expansion should be done asap, but that SN lacks the ressources to add more aircraft to its fleet, except at a very slow pace, why wouldn't LH lease a couple of its own existing a/c (there is currently very little expansion at LH and they have acquired new a/c recently), (and no real need to repaint them imho) in order to slightly speed-up SN's expansion? That could very well be a win/win deal.

[Boeing767copilot]

Lufthansa to unify standards on future aircraft orders

http://atwonline.com/aircraft-engines-c ... rders-1016

[Inquirer]

I think that is a logical thing to do.
One of the areas where mergers can generate significant costsavings is in combined procurement processes, not just during the purchase of planes BTW. Standardising many of the options and features on board at the smaller airlines of the group can bring down their costs to match those of much larger airlines. In this respect, it's most likely not a coincidence to see SWISS, Brussels Airlines and now also Austrian have all opted for identical cabin interiors for their long haul fleet for instance.

[MD-11forever]

In 2012, Brussels Airlines made a loss of 60.7 million EUR. While this is an improvement of 19.1 million EUR when compared to 2011, it is above the targeted loss of 50 million EUR. The target for 2013 is a loss between 0 and 20 million EUR, while in 2014, the idea is to turn to a profit.
Costs remain under pressure because of high fuel costs, a strong USD, weak economic growth and so-called additional regulation.
On the other hand, the restructing plan Beyond 2012-2013 is on track, according to the CFO.

In 2012, a total of 5.75 million passengers took a flight of Brussels Airlines, while a load factor of 68.7% was achieved.

Dutch:
http://www.standaard.be/artikel/detail. ... 4_00503709
http://www.tijd.be/nieuws/ondernemingen ... .art?ckc=1
French:
http://www.rtbf.be/info/regions/detail_ ... id=7947219
http://messagent.roulartamail.be/optiex ... lAgOARjJyl

[RoMax]

In 2012, Brussels Airlines made a loss of 60.7 million EUR. While this is an improvement of 19.1 million EUR when compared to 2011, it is above the targeted loss of 50 million EUR.

50 million was the original target indeed, but already quite soon they realised it would be more. In the second half of 2012 they talked about 'simular losses as in 2011 (so about 80 million) or a bit less'. Because of that higher loss than originaly targetted, they had to enforce the beyond 2012-2013 plan (which was firmed up in december).

So not a great result, but not really unexpected and still far away from the 100-120 million some members expected...

About 2014, do they plan a profit or about breakeven? I tought it was breakeven, but now a profit is mentioned.

[tolipanebas]

So not a great result, but not really unexpected and still far away from the 100-120 million some members expected...

Exactly: Initially 'the expert' even rated it at 200M, lowering it to 120M later.

About 2014, do they plan a profit or about breakeven? I tought it was breakeven, but now a profit is mentioned.

Indeed, well noticed.
That 'upgrade' came in the wake of a review of the recent financial performance of the airline, projecting it forward with revised operational parameters.
In this context, it's interesting to note how most of the loss of 2012 was made at the beginning of that year, with a significant improvement as from the second half...

[nordikcam]

The problems of the flights towards Dakar and Abidjan have been temporarily resolved.