New long-haul revolutionary configuration at B.Airlines

[RoMax]

These new Economy seats are from the Italian company Geven. As far as I know these Y seats are specially designed by this company for SN. So no Recaro seats this time. I hope they are comfortable, Italy is often known for it's nice designs but less for the quality...

Btw, 33 inch leg room...how is that compared to other airlines in Europe and competitors on the JFK route (AA, DL, 9W)? And is this already the case now or are the new seats thinner resulting in a bit more legroom?

For who is interested, the C class seats are made by Thompson Aero Seating, the type of seats is "Vantage"

The Vantage is also used by LX (as we know) and Delta Airlines (on the refurbished 767's, JFK-BRU is currently operated by these 767's with the new interior) and both airlines are very happy with it (including the customers).
The biggest difference between these 3 airlines is the IFE, based on what I've seen SN has the advantage in the IFE. At least they have the biggest screens. If I'm correct Delta has something like 10-11 inch and Swiss 10-12 inch (wasn't this different between the A330 and A340 or was this with the previous interior?).

A video of the Vantage seats like they are with Delta Airlines:
http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=N06mWF2yq6c

[luchtzak]

Are the Y-seats the same as LX? If so good choice, they are really cosy, even for economy!

Really ? This is the first time I hear this !
A friend of mine just flew to HonK Kong with SR in Y and told me those were the worst seat he'd ever experienced ( I guess they are the new "Recaro"). Paper thin, he used a pilow to sit on it all the way through. I thought there was a discussion here recently and the general feeling was that people didn't like them. So what is it?

I have flown SWISS in Y and it was very comfortable: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=44228 (RECARO seats) and I do quite some flights Maybe it's just a personal perception ?

[RoMax]

According to ATW, Brussels Airlines considered introducing a mid-tier cabin (so Economy Premium), but eventually decided to stick to its current business/economy class configuration. Geert Sciot: "This corresponds better to the demands of our markets. Besides, not one carrier in the Lufthansa Group offers a premium-economy product."

[tolipanebas]

What I think is a missed opportunity is that they didn't add a small F class cabin to their refurbished planes. Especially given the fact they also opted for a high density cabin configuration with a mere 30 business class seats means they have now clearly decided to set themselves apart from both LH as well as LX and have even decided to undercut OS!

For an airline which is increasingly going to target the transfer market between Africa and North America, I think it would proof beneficial to offer a real F class product or at least increase the size of the C class cabin.

Because of the very long total journey times from Africa to North America, far more people are going to be willing to pay a premium fare than now, so while I am convinced the new premium onboard product is great indeed, I am far less convinced about its small configuration: more C class and possibly also an F class is needed as the number of pax between Africa and north America increases, IMHO.

[sn26567]

Most business travellers will be very content with the new C class and its full flat beds. The new C class is better than the F class proposed 20 years or even 10 years ago. I speak of experience: I was several times upgraded to F on Sabena, and comfort was not better than the future C class.

With regard to service, that's a different story...

[RoMax]

For certain routes SN could use a bigger C-class indeed (JFK, FIH, DLA,...) ... So indeed a bit dissapointing they keep the same configuration... I assume SN had it's reasons for it (otherwise LH would be against it, and with a 30 million investment I'm sure LH has it's say in this). Maybe SN tought they couldn't use a bigger premium cabin on most of their routes to make it worth of configurating a part of their fleet with more C seats as this would decrease the flexibility of their fleet? Maybe we see some more premium configured aircraft comming later (2013/2014?)? I'm sure they will do this when they see the demand...

[tolipanebas]

Most business travellers will be very content with the new C class and its full flat beds. The new C class is better than the F class proposed 20 years or even 10 years ago. I speak of experience: I was several times upgraded to F on Sabena, and comfort was not better than the future C class.

Well, not only C seats have evolved, you know?
Have a look at SWISS' new first class arm chairs:
http://www.airliners.net/photo/Swiss-In ... 35e40d951a

Also, let's compare the cabin configurations of the A333s of LH, LX and SN:
LH: 8F/48C/185Y
LX: 8F/48C/183Y
SN: 0F/30C/258Y
As you can see, there is a remarkably high focus at SN on the rear end of the cabin for sure, even though I can agree that on African routes demand is largerly VFR driven; AF as well uses just planes with the smallest of premium cabins there, but they do offer a premium economy class, which is said to be quite popular with passengers connecting to other long haul destinations via CDG (given the extremly long total journey times), so if SN is serious about growing their transatlantic network further and they thus start to target the transfer market between these 2 continents as well, their longhaul cabin configuration will have to be adapted accordingly, IMHO.
Since they don't want to set themselves apart from the rest of the LH group by introducing a premium economy class (which I agree would not be such a great idea indeed as it is not clear which seats those pax would go in on other metal like for instance AC or UA), the best solution will be to expand their relatively small C cabin OR alternatively introduce a true F cabin even.

[letsgo]

When travelling from/to the UK, you might understand why airlines are looking for a visa but for a travel within Schengen? There is no border control to pass when you land so why would Ryan air be concerned of having a "visa" ? No one would check their passengers when they land.

[tolipanebas]

The first of 7 A330s to get a complete cabin overhaul (i.e. OO-SFW) is finally done and about ready to go.

Happy to say it looks really nice: what an improvement!

Something not mentioned yet: there's even mood lighting in the lavatories, which is sort of übercool.

[lumumba]

Do we now what route is 00-SWF is gooing to fly?
Regards
patrice

[tolipanebas]

The new cabin is guaranteed on all JFK flights from the start, but those flights only launch in June, so prior to that day and while other A330s get their cabin redone, SFW will be deployed on routes in West and Central Africa: chances are fairly big it will be used mainly to FIH/LAD/DLA/NSI...

[airbuske]

Yep it's indeed a big improvement! I think it's one of the best investments!
I hope to try soon the new C class

[lumumba]

Any chance on Monrovia?

[Reg E S Potter]

No doubt I will get flamed for pedantry but it really is a shame to spoil an expensive launch such as this with a basic translation howler. See pic 3 of SN26567's report which, for a few Euro spent on a native english speaker, could have been corrected to use the word "year" instead of the plural "years".

I know English is a strange language to master ( as evidenced here on Luchtzak & elsewhere where it matters not, so long as you get your message across) but for a major international airline to make such a faux-pas is incredible.

Reg

PS One of the captions changes Geert Sciot to G. Scott. Is he anglicising his name now?

[sn26567]

PS One of the captions changes Geert Sciot to G. Scott. Is he anglicising his name now?

My mistake (or that of my spellcheck...). Corrected!

But I cannot correct the slide of my third picture. Sorry!

[OO-ITR]

now that OO-SFW is back from retrofit, what is the next A/C?

[HighInTheSky]

now that OO-SFW is back from retrofit, what is the next A/C?

OO-SFM

[CS-TMX]

Great report and fantastic new product!

[HighInTheSky]

OO-SFW is to arrive today, 29/3 and to go back into service as from tomorrow, friday 30/3.

SFW will fly mostly on the DLA-NSI route (except on days 1 and 3)

[OO-ITR]

And it looks we won't have to wait too long for the second retrofitted aircraft...