Quote: "I was Ryanair's slave"

[sean1982]

I didnt say may wage I said approximatly, and the reason is because i wanna get all this "lowpay" bullsh*t out of the world, the interviewee is not lying, but twisting the facts in her advantage. On top of that Im not like most belgians who regard their wage as a state secret (probably because their lifestyle doesnt correspond to their "official" pay)

Your questions are not worth answering

[tolipanebas]

Hey they are Ryanair staff, remember... what did you expect?

I hate to say it, but this is just like in that joke about a bloke who saw a nice stewardess on her own in a pub somewhere in the UK and wanted to try his luck chatting her up, so he tried to start a casual conversation with her, asking her timidly: "British Airways?" To which he got only laughter and disdain in response, thus moving on to "Aer Lingus, maybe?" only to get incomprehensible grumbling back from her and then finally and almost desperately calling his last shot with "Ryanair then?" to which the stewardess said: "WTF do you want?"

[sean1982]

Omg, im cracking up seriously, if im not even allowed to defend myself against people who call me a liar

[tolipanebas]

On top of that I'm not like most Belgians who regard their wage as a state secret (probably because their lifestyle doesnt correspond to their "official" pay)

Or maybe it's because you're not under the Belgian fiscal system, meaning you couldn't care less about any possible material indications to the contrary?

Just so we have an idea: approximately how much did you pay in income taxes and social security contributions to Belgium last year???

And yet if and when the day comes you (or a beloved one of yours) were to end up in a hospital or a retirement home somewhere in Belgium, you'd expect the government to provide all the best possible care, preferably free of any suplementary charges, right?

[sean1982]

First of all, that's none of your business
Secondly, its not my fault the system is what it is
Third, you are always welcome to come enjoy the same conditions, complaining is one thing, doing something about it is something else

[tolipanebas]

firstly: the answer is ZERO as also confirmed by Virginie in the article above.

secondly: one is always welcome to pay social security contributions to the RSZ/ONSS in return for future coverage and in fact if one is employed by a foreign employer in Belgium which fails to pay up front on your behalf, you are even obliged by law to contact them and sort out the payments yourself: do you need me to pass you their address so you can make all contributions?

Tirdly: if all were to do like you, we'd be living in a country pretty much like Greece, so no thanks.

[sean1982]

And last, i dont appreciate that condescending tone of yours, it guess it comes with the brussels airlines territory and the typical "I am better then god" pilot attitude. And this WILL be the last contribution I have ever made to this forum, if you want to lecture me fine, at least what I am doing is legal unlike 60% of all belgians as covered in the news today. You might wanna clean in front of your own door first instead of complaining about the neighbours!!

[HighInTheSky]

I knew from the start that this was going to be a FR against the world debate

My 2 cents:

I think you have to compare everything into detail before you can make a real claim about being exploited by company X or Y.

Let's put it like this, forget your price-draw tickets, and all that you can/may/must sell on board. Just take the basic salary, per diems, block hours allowance, flight hours, number of working days per month, number of flight hours per day...

I think that is the only way to compare things. Not by including all the extra's, just plain and simple the salary.

Now how do I see it?

You want to work for Ryanair? Fine, go ahead. But everybody knows you'll have long days with multiple (long) sectors each day, a very stressful timeframe and that you don't need to expect crew meals on board, nightstops in outstation in fancy hotels and so on...

I read the article too Saturday, and I must say that Virginie seemed to be very naive when starting to fly for FR, the worlds most notorious LCC, and expecting the frills of a Skytrax 5 star airline...

Do I think FR crews are exploited? Yes, ofcourse. But that is subjective, isn't it?

Sean1982 seems to be happy at FR, good for him, and I wish him all the best with his further career

The debate about the taxes and OCMW,... is much too complicated for Luchtzak IMHO

[fcw]

Tolipanebasxe, your are omitting important details and twisting the thruth!
When young Sean goes to the doctor or hospital in Belgium he will get the same refund as you and me, BUT every euro which the Belgian social security pays to Sean will be claimed back from the Irish. So you are not paying a simgle cent for him!
He will never get a Belgian pension for his work for an Irish company, so once again you are not paying for him. In fact it is the opposite: you will receive a Belgian pension for which you did not pay. Between 1995 an 2010 pension contributions from aircrew were kept by the airlines as, illegal, subsidies and were not transfered to the Belgian social security.
As for calling FR high fee-airline, have a look at your own company who charges 100€ in fees for a FREE ticket!!

[tolipanebas]

Seeking firm confirmation of the most obvious fiscal consequences of what Virginie claimed about her labour contract itself (i.e. that even as a Belgian, working in CRL - Belgium, she got an Irish contract through a subcontractor) clearly isn't appreciated by you, even though I did it because you've explicitly stated she had twisted the facts to her advantage: she may have twisted some of the little details for sure, but certainly not the crux of the matter, did she?

[sean1982]

I dont work for a subcontractor, I work for FR and I dont work in CRL, I work in the air

[sn26567]

Even the Belgians at CRL don't work under a Belgian contract, as you've now come to learn, yet when it comes to turning to the Belgian social security in X years for whatever reason, all of them will most certainly make use of it nevertheless, and then they will all be very happy that others like you and me have been funding not only our own but also their premiums right now...

That is a problem for our MEPs (i.e. Members of the Europena Parliament) to solve. If Ryanair can use the present legislation to its advantage, they would be foolish not to do so. Other airlines could do the same: youself you were advocating delocalising SN to Luxembourg!

But we should strive at more Europe, thus at having the legislation of all European countries to be harmonised as far as possible. That would avoid the kind of situation in which we are living now.

[sean1982]

I agree, a european social security and pension scheme would be a good start

[airazurxtror]

Don't bother about Tulipanebas, Sean, he is strictly "Brussels hansa" (until such time as Lufty sees fit to keep them) and as such can't bear any competitor, less of all one as dangerous for him as Ryanair.
Keep up the good work, Sean, and don't bother about all of them !

[crew1990]

I'll really never understand this kind of people!! Okay we don't have the best condition of work but we don't have the worst neither!

As I don't have yet the Ryanair contract I "only" paid more or less 1500 euro a month for flying 70/80 hours. But when you got the Ryanair contract, you can expect 2000 euro wich is very good money if you don't have any diploma.

We have some advantage like staff travel, discount in some hotels or with hertz. Regarding the base where you are you may have also some discount, for example in Bergamo we have some discount for the taxi, in the fitness, in some bar,... We can go to Milano or Brescia with autostradale for FREE.

Okay we have to pay the course 1800, but if you stay 1 year you will have 300 + 300 + 600 back and so the real cost is only 600 euro. And the fact we pay for the course make that we can have a course much more intensive than in the other company, for example I don't know how Jetairfly and Easyjet manage to see all the theory with only 3 week.

We have crazy hour during our training, but this is to get familiarized with the working hour when we will have to work, so even if it's not easy, it's understandable.

We have to pay our uniform 30 euro a month during one year, but what she forget to say is that we receive back the same money the next year. So at the end the uniform is free.

The only thing that I really don't like about working with ryanair is that they don't do a real selection in the assement day, and so the majority of our cabin crew are unprofessional and not motivated. That 's make that we have a really bad reputation, and it's really bad for some people like me who was really dreaming to be cabin crew and really do their best at work to be the most "cabin crew" than possible, but at the end we'll never go to a "good" airlines because they have Ryanair in their curiculum.

[cnc]

Detailed question to the personnel of Ryanair: it can not be true if Virginie states that she has to clean vomit of passengers without being paid for it ? I cannot imagine that any labour contract would stipulate that this kind of ultra humiliation is not rewarded. Without laughing: the last time that this kind of work was obligatory and not rewarded in Belgium was between 1940 and 1944 . Let us assume that Virginie did not know her contract too well, otherwise she would not have cleaned vomit in unpaid time. Right?

so cleaning is ultra humiliation for an FA? do you feel humiliated when cleaning your desk?
my colleagues and i didn't feel ultra humiliated when the cleaners where on strike and we cleaned our aircrafts together with the crew

Oh, and we don't clean vommit, not in paid time or unpaid time, we call the cleaners

actually i've seen FR crew clean their aircrafts during a rotation on multiple times

I work for FR and I dont work in CRL, I work in the air

no you work where you are based actually.

[sean1982]

I didnt say we dont "clean", but this is just picking up the stuff that people throw on the floor, from the moment body fluids are involved, cleaners are called

And Im not going to start a yes-no discussion, it's legal, point

[pressman]

I'm gonna come in on both sides of this argument , Sean , you are one of the few who are paid so well , what about these kids on pay per hour wages ? Some of them can suffer terribly during the winter with low hours .

Tobipenile you should have been born in a different era my boy , circa 1940 germany , you are one of the most bigoted people i have come across on forums . We pay all our tax and social security in Ireland and any claims made through the belgian system are claimed back from Ireland - that is what the E106 is for - we are responsible for employment of thousands in the greatest shithole in europe , that is our contribution to the belgian system . My salary is bigger than yours , my pension is bigger than yours and my benefits are bigger than yours . You insinuate that FR staff are leeches on the belgian system , far from it my boy , but of course being someone who shoots their mouth off without being in possession of the facts is pretty typical here . I have pulled you up before about this idea of your that belgium is the only place in the world with health and pension benefits . The belgian state pension for your information is the most miserable I have ever seen and well below that of Ireland . You might do well to leave that mickey mouse airline you work for and come and make some real money .

[regi]

I didnt say we dont "clean", but this is just picking up the stuff that people throw on the floor, from the moment body fluids are involved, cleaners are called

OK, so Virginie exagerated (or even lied! ) when she stated she was cleaning vomit without being paid for it. Thank you to clarify that point Sean (no sarcasm )

Vocabulary correction: I have worded the cleaning up of vomit a bit wrongly, as if I consider it a lowlife job. I have been sick in public areas before and I felt very embarrassed that somebody was called to clean up my mess.
My view is in fact the opposite: I consider it a job that should be well paid because it is such a nasty thing. And I do really respect people who clean toilets, take care of elderly or sick people and who clean up my mess. I called it humiliating if you have to do it without remuneration in one way or the other.

Side question, probably best for Sean to answer: as you stated that the cleaners are called in in case of vomit/body fluids, is it also not technicallly better to let the job be done by them , with specific equipment, instead of somebody messing around with napkins ?

[OO-ITR]

Don't bother about Tulipanebas, Sean, he is strictly "Brussels hansa" (until such time as Lufty sees fit to keep them) and as such can't bear any competitor, less of all one as dangerous for him as Ryanair.
Keep up the good work, Sean, and don't bother about all of them !

a competitor who receives millions from the walloon governement is not a fair competitor!