Malév ordered to repay state aid, now bankrupt

[airazurxtror]

Brussels Airlines is already investing for years in its Budapest-Brussels operations with 2 daily flights, and will go to three daily as of mid-February, what else would you actually expect!?

Actually, I don't expect much of Brussels Airlines - anyway, as says convair, not a "yes, we can" attitude, nor a go-getter one ...
One can make fun of Ryanair, but they are much more dynamic.
Ryanair get subsidies ? Why does SN not get some also ? Because they are not smart enough ? They were offered the same as Ryanair at Charleroi, they were unable to take advantage of it.

[SN1203]

Ryanair get subsidies ? Why does SN not get some also ?

For the same reason why I also don't blindly follow the car in front of me if it drives through the red light...

For all the good reasons given here on this topic to explain the lack of flexibility of SN, I'd still much prefer to see a more "yes we can" attitude!

Looking at their announcement, the morning flight goes from Avro to Airbus, an extra afternoon flight is added and the evening flight remains status quo (also on Airbus/Boeing). All this in a timespan of just a few hours after the announcement that Malev was grounded. I don't see the problem to be honest...

[cnc]

Could someone tell me why SN should take more actions then adding up more capacity on the route between its hub and BUD? are people expecting BUD to become a second hub or focus city in the network?

[LJ]

BUD does not warrant 4 daily flights from BRU, especially not given the competition announced at CRL: a potential total of up to 7 daily return flights between Belgium and BUD, doesn't that sounds a bit high to you given the current economic outlook in Hungary???

I personally think that SN's "problem" is that it caters very much to the Belgian O&D passengers. A nightstop would require a 4th daily flight (at least on weekdays) to provide to pax the opportunity to do a daytrip to BUD (and these pax are high yield). unlike KL I think that BRU-BUD is more a O&D market than AMS-BRU with daytrippers. Thus the only way to have a nightstop (without making your O&D pax angry) is to have a flight leaving BRU at around 16:00/17:00 and another one at 20:00. Otherwise, they will probably stay with the current schedule (or else they'll make the current local O&D daytrippers angry).

Actually, I don't expect much of Brussels Airlines - anyway, as says convair, not a "yes, we can" attitude, nor a go-getter one ...
One can make fun of Ryanair, but they are much more dynamic.

They're more "dynamic" because the have 80 737-800s standing idle on the ground this Winter. If the grounding of both Spanair and Malev would have happened during the Summer (July-August), then I would say that FR wouldn't increase their schedule by as much as the do now. Moreover, it's unclear how long these routes will be flown as most of the grounded 737s will be needed during the Summer season.

The fact that SN increased their number of flights shows that they're very dynamic.

[convair]

OK. Let's remain positive. Adding a mid-day flight was a good first move from SN. However, let's hope they can have that early morning flight from BUD (since it apparently draws unanimity) in the near future!

[tolipanebas]

Looking at SN's announcement, the morning flight goes from Avro to Airbus, an extra afternoon flight is added and the evening flight remains status quo (already on Airbus/Boeing). All this in a timespan of just a few hours after the announcement that Malev was grounded. I don't see the problem to be honest...

Indeed, I think they've reacted very well indeed in such a very short time span and made the best of the situation at hands, without turning their entire network upside down either, because let's face it: it's 'just' BUD were talking about, so it's just 1 route in their network.

Ryanair are more "dynamic" because the have 80 737-800s standing idle on the ground this Winter.

Which in my view is quite a contradiction in terms in itself, actually.

You should see the rows of idle Ryanair 738s stored at places like BHX: BUD looked bussy on friday if compared to Birmingham this winter, I can assure you!

Seems like they don't feel the same urge to save people during winter time, as they do in summer?

Let's remain positive. Adding a mid-day flight was a good first move from SN. However, let's hope they can have that early morning flight from BUD (since it apparently draws unanimity) in the near future!

If they rearrange their schedule, they can very well get such a nightstop service in place, all without adding a 4th frequency. Let's hope they do, as it would link BUD with the hub in BRU early morning, thus offering connectivity to some fairly interesting longhaul destinations for Hungarians, e.g. JFK, only served by AA and during summer (but for how long still, now MA is gone?) as well as YYZ for instance, both cities have around 100,000 Hungarian immigrants living there...

[convair]

To Tolipanebas,

It looks like you "improved" my post while quoting it?!

[tolipanebas]

To Tolipanebas,

It looks like you "improved" my post while quoting it?!

Euh, no I didn't..

Oh yes I see, there's a quote from LJ added to your quote...

Quoting multiple persons in one reply is a real mess on this site... let me correct it asap, my appologies!

[convair]

Please look again. You added a sentence in the middle of my post!

[Air Key West]

you are going to add a noon flight

No, read my posts carefully. I'm only suggesting to add a late evening flight with an early return the next morning. SN has already decided to add a noon flight which will become an afternoon flight from 05 MAR
http://quicktrip.brusselsairlines.com/S ... 7AF9217386

BUD does not warrant 4 daily flights from BRU, especially not given the competition announced at CRL

You surely know that there is quiet a difference between CRL pax and BRU pax. The latter are more business travelers and transfer pax. CRL is more O&D and VFR.
From BRU, BUD is more a business and transfer market. On such markets you need at least three daily frequencies, preferably four, and now with the void left by Malev the fourth frequency would be justified.

think about slip crews (requiring the same type of aircraft on the nightstop + afternoon flight),

I already mentioned it earlier (but some members don't read my posts thoroughly) : the same aircraft for
BRU BUD 1345 1555 BUD BRU 1625 1835 and BRU BUD 2000 2210 BUD BRU 0630 0840.

And you want to use a Korongo aircraft that could be gone in 2-3 months,

I would not be so sure that the Korongo aircraft will leave in 2-3 months. I'm rather tempted to think they will never leave. And if they were to leave in a few months, the question is to occupy the ground now (short term decision) and develop a better solution with the regular aircraft for the medium and long term.

And have you ever considered that the BAe146 requires a specific typerating that regular Avro pilots don't have?

Does the Korongo 737 also require a specific typerating ?

lack of crews

I took that into account in one of my posts yesterday, when I said : "If crew are available". I'm only making suggestions. Hence, the "if".

Oooh Air Key West, you just can't stop your unfounded attacks on b.air, can you...

You are right, I did not express myself as I should have. Mea culpa. I should have said :Good move, b.air, that third (afternoon flight) to BUD ! Now, keep on acting and add that late evening flight with an early return to BRU the next day.
It's difficult to change one's set of mind about b.air after years of immobilism, but I admit b.air is changing (perhaps thanks to LH deciding not to acquire 100 % of SN, this year). So, I agree my comment should have been more positive. The other things I am writing are suggestions to get the discussion going, not to get attacked by other members.

[tolipanebas]

you are going to add a noon flight

No, (...) I'm only suggesting to add a late evening flight with an early return the next morning.

So you'd be offering 1 very early morning and 2 (late) evening flights ex BRU?
Do you think that is such a great schedule?

Does the Korongo 737 also require a specific typerating?

That plane is in daily use: you can check it (with some delay) for yourself here:
http://data.flight24.com/airplanes/oo-ltm/

BUD does not warrant 4 daily flights from BRU, especially not given the competition announced at CRL

From BRU, BUD is more a business and transfer market. On such markets you need at least three daily frequencies, preferably four, and now with the void left by Malev the fourth frequency would be justified.

Well, all I can say is that real world traffic data of the BRU-BUD route for 2011 (thus the loads of SN and MA combined) do not justify 4 daily rotations at present. You can off course aim at connections, but I think you're seriously overestimating the feed SN can draw from BUD at present, especially with a powerhouse like FRA sitting right in between.

[sn26567]

Shannon, new base for Malév planes ?

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Malev--- ... 5c23969f2e

[sn26567]

Budapest Airport says it is "business as usual" as it works to bring additional airline capacity to the facility: it has launched a special "route recovery incentive programme" to attract the most appropriate operators.

The airport confirms that Air France, British Airways, Brussels Airlines and Germanwings have all added more frequencies on their existing routes , while Lufthansa has also expanded its network with additional services.

http://www.routesonline.com/news/29/bre ... -shutdown/

[tolipanebas]

Budapest Airport says it is "business as usual" as it works to bring additional airline capacity to the facility: it has launched a special "route recovery incentive programme" to attract the most appropriate operators.

Apparently this route recovery incentive programme isn't about accepting anybody at any cost, much to the dislike of FR, which counted on BUD rolling out the red carpet for them in order to be "saved" by Europe's notoriously high fee airline from Ireland.

In fact, despite all the grandtalk by MOL about their new base, it now turns out they are actually selling flights for which there is no agreement yet and which might have to be cancelled by them even!

BUD airport said in a statement today: "Ryanair wants to fly everywhere for free. We do give incentives, for example for new routes or off peak slots, but we will not give any airline preferential treatment.”

On the fact Ryanair are already selling their newly announced flights, BUD's spokesman said: “It’s like selling tickets for an orchestral concert before the hall and the conductor are booked. Ryanair is selling tickets for flights that it simply can not guarantee.”

More on the website of the Financial Times: http://blogs.ft.com/beyond-brics/2012/0 ... z1lmLU2mSu

[sn26567]

One strange consequence of the bankruptcy of Malèv: Hainan Airlines abandons its Beijing-Budapest route.

[airazurxtror]

http://www.air-journal.fr/2012-02-15-ry ... 44367.html

Ryanair has recorded 25% more bookings than expected on its 32 routes to and from Budapest.
Anticipating a "record year" on the airport of Budapest, the Irish airline will establish there on 17 February 2012 his 51st base, where she hopes to carry 2.4 million passengers by the end of December.
A fifth aircraft will be based there end of March and a 32nd route will be launched to Tampere in Finland. Ryanair will on the other hand increase frequencies by 42 rotations per week to : Charleroi (twice daily except Friday), Eindhoven, Gothenburg, Madrid, Milan, Rome, Stockholm and Thessaloniki.
CEO Michael O'Leary said the company would invest $ 350 million there, and "by the exceptional efforts of the airport and the government" make up for traffic lost with the disappearance of Malev, but "at rates less than a quarter of those of Malev, and half less expensive than Wizz"

[RoMax]

One strange consequence of the bankruptcy of Malèv: Hainan Airlines abandons its Beijing-Budapest route.

Indeed, they'll end it on 5 March. They currently fly it two weekly, but without their local codeshare partner they don't see any future in this route anymore. And not suprising, if you can operatly only 2 weekly with a local codeshare partner (offering some connections), I doubt they can succesfully operate that route without a partner.

In the same statement Hainan said they plans to increase the frequency of its Beijing-Brussels and Beijing-Berlin routes. They did not provide more details...

Would they be talking about the already announced increase from 4 to 6 weekly or are they planning more? Daily for exemple... With BUD going away they could operate two additional flights to Europe that were not planned yet at the time they announced the increase to BRU. So possibly both BER (TXL) and BRU get another extra flight? Or they may just have been reminding at the increase they announced earlier...