Belgium 30/01/2012 Strike

[tolipanebas]

Here' a behind-the-scene illustration of just how chaotic the pension reform of our government truely is:

http://aclvb-cgslb.blogspot.com/2012/01 ... l?spref=fb

[Flanker]

* dress up in black till “your demands are fulfilled”;
* dress up in clown suits till “your demands are fulfilled”;
* ask your union boss to withdrawn 500 euros from the union’s Swiss bank account and buy chocolates from it. Give them to all passengers, together with a leaflet in which you try to explain why you are angry;
* ask all crew from the Hifly CS-TMT and all ERJ135/145 from the Belgian army to become suddenly sick, just at the very moment that our beloved king or our prince wants to use it. Or worse: when His Royal Highness Elio D.R. wants to use it;
* block off the entrance of Wetstraat 16 / Rue de la Loi 16 Brussels. Indeed, office of HRH Di Rupo;
* deflate the four tyres from the nice Audi A8 from our prime minister;
* for your colleagues from the public transport: organize a ride-for-free-day.

Do whatever you want, but do not harm private companies who have not voted for this government.

Dress ups can get you fired, passengers dont give a shite, air force crews love their jobs.
That's all pretty naive.

Truth of the matter is, life in Belgium has become unsustainable.
Diesel and gas are very expensive, heavily taxed.
Energy costs are high.

You pay rocket high taxes and get little in return, because of an inefficient investment environment.
Government is inefficient, run the same way as they run their companies: sn, nmbs, delijn,etc...
Same principles: high yields, low load factors, high capacity, low volume.
Long trains ride empty outside rush hours, shorter trains riding around packed during rush hour.
Similar to sn, where you see 1 pax stepping out of a 320, when you want to bang your head against something.

Taxes so high in an inflation environment, that it's become impossible to conduct business.
Activa was supposed to create new jobs, now it has become an employment requirement.

The strikes are there to protest the incompetence of the government, not to inflict damage. The government is doing the unsustainable damage, in the name of democracy.

[fretn]

Easy, then vote in the next elections on the party that can change this turn around. And I guess there's certainly one in Flanders which will get my vote for the first time in 2014.

Most people that strike don't do it because our government is running on square wheels, but mostly because of the pension age... (90%)

[Squelsh]

Before anyone can make the -lately popular- statement that this is not a political forum or has anything to do with aviation or selling herpa's, allow to throw in open question whether or not the roads to BRUCARGO will be blocked again, like some years ago in the 'general strike' for generation pact. Tried to get through on foot, was blocked agressively.. Shouted something to the police about public road and right to work.... they didn't do anything... Belgium's finest I guess

[Squelsh]

Monday SV fuelstop deviated via Ostend (BE) ( ) ATM, they don't know the difference between Belgium and Brussels I guess..

[cnc]

Monday SV fuelstop deviated via Ostend (BE) ( ) ATM, they don't know the difference between Belgium and Brussels I guess..

SV uses OST as fuel stop every week...

[Flanker]

Easy, then vote in the next elections on the party that can change this turn around. And I guess there's certainly one in Flanders which will get my vote for the first time in 2014.

Most people that strike don't do it because our government is running on square wheels, but mostly because of the pension age... (90%)

If you think that voting different is going to change anything, you're naive.
Our generations are made believe that democracy is the solution to all the problems of modern society.

What strikes me most though is the ignorance that many people display towards this strike.
Retirement age regression is about cutting deficit, and deficit is there because the government is spending more than it is collecting in tax revenue. That is a result of incompetent governance by people who are elected to manage the common wealth but are clearly not capable of doing so.

Democracy only works when the government share the same vision as the people they represent.

Pilots have been stacking up retirement funds that the government is now deciding to wipe out. Wouldn't it be the same as sending the police to rob their homes?
The people have the right to strike to preserve their rights.

Some people will be inconvenienced, sad story. Worst case, they can lose a few thousand euro's, but they were warned well in advance.
The people who are striking have a lot more to lose. Can you imagine losing a portion of your retirement fund that you've built up through all those years of great service?

If you let retirement and early retirement age slip quietly, it won't be long before the government makes it a standard practice during each crisis, and retirement becomes a privilege instead of a right. Don't forget that you are paying for your right to a pension. The government isn't going to give you a discount on your taxes to compensate for your later retirement.

Corporations lose from the strikes as well, but they too should join the protests and threaten to move their headq's and factories abroad if the gov doesn't find ways to become more efficient to reduce the fiscal pressure.

[LJ]

The European Summit has been maintained on monday, day of the national strike.
What if Brussels Airport is on strike ?

If I'm not mistaken many will fly in today (Sunday). The same for all the journalists and others who don't fly on the government jet. Moreover isn't the military part of BRU (Melsbroek) separated?

Now something off topic...

Corporations lose from the strikes as well, but they too should join the protests and threaten to move their headq's and factories abroad if the gov doesn't find ways to become more efficient to reduce the fiscal pressure.

You must be joking. Belgium is a tax haven for many companies (and the new legislation won't change that, though it will become slightly less). Moreover moving European HQs wouldn't be good for BRU, would it?

[Squelsh]

SV uses OST as fuel stop every week...

OST is only used when problems in Brussels due to curfew, or other (local) operational issues as on monday 30th, a strike. All SV fuelstops of the week, whether it is from the kingdom to the USA, or vice versa, are planned via BRU.
.
I don't know where you heard otherwise or what makes you claim that it is always Ostend.. But I have walked the stairs of these fuelstops more than enough IN BRU, as per schedule. It is true that the Evergreen-crews prefer Ostend for many reasons, and their CC always tried to change the schedule so they could land in Ostend, but this is still exceptional. N491EV still grounded anyways so for the near future, no change there.
.
Also, the fuelstop dest USA is not a fuel stop 'pur sang' anymore. They been selling space EX BRU on it for months now. And no, it's not trucked BRU-OST, unless, as mentioned: operational problems..
.
http://www.saudiacargo.com/Schedules/01 ... %20USA.pdf

[cnc]

...

my point is they know OST well enough to know if it will be possible or not to make a rotation on monday

[Squelsh]

Just had confiration -seems they know them well enough- that ground operation in OST is guaranteed for the SA on monday, contrary to handling in BRU. And life was good at the seaside. Staken schaadt, werken baat

[tolipanebas]

Now something off topic...

Corporations lose from the strikes as well, but they too should join the protests and threaten to move their headq's and factories abroad if the gov doesn't find ways to become more efficient to reduce the fiscal pressure.

You must be joking. Belgium is a tax haven for many companies (and the new legislation won't change that, though it will become slightly less). Moreover moving European HQs wouldn't be good for BRU, would it?

Although it is indeed largely off topic in the grand debade on the general strike next Monday, it is much more on topic than you may think in relation to aviation.

As you've probably understood by now, our government has decided to unilaterally void the special pension system for pilots, a self-supporting and self-funded system which so far allowed flightcrew to retire after 30 iso the full 45 years.
In just a split second and without any demand from either employees nor employers (both of them are self-funding the system) Mr. Q has decided to raise our career length by a whopping 15 years, pocket all the paid extra contributions over all those past years, void any rights already built up and as if that is not enough already timidly admitted that all contributions (including the premiums paid to fund the early retirement age) will likely need to be continued to be paid in some form in order to fund the pensions of those who are already retired?!? Sadism at its best, indeed!

Now, given the complete lack of understanding by the minister on the absolute need for a tailored pension system for flightcrew and more so even the political unwillingness to revert on any of the draconic measures already taken, it seems hopeless to come to a negociated agreement which will sufficiently re-establish the old system and its financial benefits.

In light of this, it must be the absolute first alternative and total priority of our management to start working on legal alternatives ASAP, notably through a mechanism of outflagging.

Indeed, there is no legal objection to SN setting up a foreign based operational subsidiary in for instance Ireland or Portugal to which planes and crews can than be transferred and which will subsequenly wetlease both those planes and crews back to SN for it to operate its flights from BRU, so flightcrew can benefit from a massively lowered income tax in the new 'host nation' and can thus earn a significaly higher net salary so as to rapidly build up a private pension themselves which will allow them to retire at a correct age still on their own expenses and without any belgian pension: that's how pilots working at EK do it to you know? save up for yourself, rather than pay to the government and hope they will do the right thing for you in 20 30 or 40 years from now!

Seriously, there should be no reason why a Belgian pilot flying an SN A319 from BRU to NCE, should be taxed twice as much as a Belgian pilot flying a U2 A319 from NCE to BRU, so SN's shareholders should finally stop being the proud flagwavers they have so far been, and admit that it is impossible to still offer a competitive pay package within a common european sky and thus bite the bullet and outflag us.
It's going to send shockwaves through the belgian political landscape for sure, but it's really the only way forward, and so the actions planned for tomorrow are as much a wake up call to our management and our shareholders to finally wake up to reality and let go of any patriotic emotions, than it is to ventilate anger with the decisions by our government really. Sadly, it seems our managers have not understood it yet, and are still 'eager to negociate with the government to find a compromise'. Stop talking, just outflag us!!!

[tangolima]

Hello

The impact on the outbound JAF flights.

MST:
JAF 1357 to ALC
JAF 1853 to AGP
JAF 1213 to TFS
JAF 103 to SDQ and PUJ

CGN:
JAF 1181 to LPA
JAF 1687 to TFS ( Ex CRL)
JAF 1861 to TNG (Ex CRL)

All passengers must gather in groups in BRU and they will be brought to the different airports by buses.

Greetings,

[Acid-drop]

they will use beauvechain for the eu summit.
the gov don't care about this strike, all of them from all parties have already said its plain stupid and useless.
it's been 40 years than strike are not usefull anyway.
andeven if they wanted to listen they dont have any money.

if you want some change, come with ideas, make the change.

[Air Key West]

Well, tolipanebas has excellent ideas for change. What the government and especially Mr Q did to the flight crew pension scheme is outrageous. They really deserve the hard counteraction suggested by tolipanebas.

[FlightMate]

I think the previous minister (Mr T.) had already been thinking for a long time about getting rid of this special pension scheme.

It's not a surprise really, when the employment rate of pilots in Belgium went south after 11/2011.

At least, if the pension plan cannot continue anymore like it is, the airlines (like SN) should pay us back what we have been paying as "special contributions" for years (as they never paid it to the state)
I think other airlines in Belgium were giving it back to their employees.

[Passenger]

Well, tolipanebas has excellent ideas for change. What the government and especially Mr Q did to the flight crew pension scheme is outrageous. They really deserve the hard counteraction suggested by tolipanebas.

Who is "they" in "they deserve the hard counteraction" : the government? No sirs, your strike doesn't hurt the government at all and Mr Q doesn't need a flight to go to work. You only hurt the airports, the airlines, the passengers, BruCargo, the belgian travel trade, the belgian industry. And you hurt them well, for sure. And what's the most disgusted about your strike: you know it only hurts them.

On topic: check the Dutch forums: Jet Airways gets the red carpet at Amsterdam tomorrow. "Rumours are that they're thinking to move their hub to AMS", many say. From where?

[Air Key West]

What's the source of your "rumours" ?

[Passenger]

What's the source of your "rumours" ?

Post on the AMS-forum about the strike in Brussels (yes, they discuss it): "Bovendien heeft SPL een belang om Jet Airways te pleasen, omdat er al lange tijd geruchten zijn dat Jet Airways zijn vluchten naar SPL verplaatst. Dat hangt allemaal weer samen met de discussie of Jet Airways skyteam komt versterken".

Translated through google.translate - thus not in proper English: "In addition, SPL (Schiphol) has an interest to Jet Airways to please, as there has long been rumored that Jet Airways flights to move SPL (Schiphol). That's all back together with the discussion or Jet Airways joins SkyTeam".

[Air Key West]

In other words : this has got nothing to do with Monday's strike. We already knew that Jet Airways will stay in BRU if they join *A and that they will move to AMS if they join Skyteam. SPL just wants to convince 9W that if they join Skyteam, their best option would be to move their scissorshub to AMS (and not CDG, MXP or FCO). Again, has got nothing to do with the strike.