Boeing to re-engine the B737

[earthman]

It would seem this would make the A320neo more attractive vs the B737RE than how it is with the current models.

[RoMax]

The 737 is a lighter airframe, so they don't need the same fan size as Airbus needs on the A320. Boeing claims the new 737's will be up to 8% more cost efficient (including everything, so operational costs, maintenance, purchase,...) than the A320neo. But I think this is too optimistic.

Industry specialists say the B737RE can keep the 2% margin over the A320neo with a 66in engine. All in all, this is nothing special and it's not going to make the difference for an airline to switch to another type, not for the A320 and not for the 737.
Boeing just wants to keep its market share, they don't want to get the A320 operaters. Boeing doesn't want to invest to much money and time in this program. They were pushed in a position they don't like, but they gave what their customers wanted. But I wouldn't be suprised if Boeing will still be the one who will be the first to launch a NSA.

[earthman]

How do they come up with this margin, A&B seem to be very careful to not make planes with exactly the same capacity/range anyway.

[RoMax]

Bloomberg reports that the Boeing Board is about to approve the 737RE project next week. Approval could come as early as 28-29 August when the board will meet in Chicago.

Nicole Piasecki says the demand should be simular to that of the A320neo and the article says Boeing has customers "lined up" for this upgrade. Next to AA I could imagine Southwest as a launch customer. They already have a history of launch customer for various 737 versions and they showed a lot of interest in the new 737's. Also other big 737 users already expressed their interest in this 737RE in the press.

“We’re heavily engaged with customers across the world right now who are excited about the product,” Piasecki said. “A lot of our customers are going to want to get access to it as fast as possible. That dynamic will exist for us in the same way it existed for Airbus.”

Also interesting:

Some customers with large numbers of current 737s on order may seek to convert those into contracts for the new version once it’s officially for sale, Piasecki said.

If Boeing indeed alows airlines to convert their orders, this will be different than Airbus wich only allows new orders for the neo and no conversions. If Boeing allows this I assume they will only allow this to certain, big clients. Otherwise they COULD have a too low production backlog in the comming years for the 737NG. Tough Piasecki also added demand for the current 737 versions continues. Of course the NG stays a faster available and cheaper aircraft than the 737RE. We see the same with the A320 and the neo. Some airlines order both, some even only classic A320.

But Boeing claiming they see the same demand as for the neo seems a bit optimistic. The 737RE will be very popular with current 737 users, and maybe with new users. But the A320(neo) is extremely popular in Asia where we see the big orders. Of course Boeing will sell 737RE's in Asia, but not in the same amount as Airbus. And it's the question if they make this up in other parts of the world...

[RoMax]

Boeing just officially launched the program. The new 737 is for sale now and Boeing said they saw an overwhelming demand after the AA order was announced.
More information later.

[RoMax]

More information later.

You can find the extra information in the press release wich is already on luchtzak.be. So no need to place it a second time here.

Only maybe one very interesting point. Boeing has 496 orders and commitments from 5 customers of wich only American with 100 aircraft is known.

[RoMax]

Boeing confirmed that 85% of the 496 order/commitment backlog for the 737 MAX (like the new family is called) originates out of the US. He (Jim Albaugh) also said:

"Are they major carriers? They are the top airlines in the world that have committed to these airplanes."

He also said it is unlikely AA will be the first airline to get a 737 MAX.

And he also said that airlines with current 737 orders could possibly switch to the 737MAX, altough the majority will stick with the 737NG.

(btw, see the two press release here on luchtzak for many other information, I don't think it's needed to place it here again, unless somebody want's to react on something of that)

[RoMax]

See this press release on Luchtzak

Boeing decided to go for an engine with 68-inch fan diameter. Firm configuration of the aircraft is sheduled for 2013, first flight in 2016 and starting deliveries in 2017. Altough Jim Albaugh claimed again they keep pushing to get it done faster. As said before the 2017 target is a very wide target that is intended to be a worst-case scenario (when they came up with this they had the 787 and 748 in their mind I think ). But I first want to see this before I believe it.

Due to the larger engine, the nose gear will have to be longer with 15-20 cm (before anyone will comment on this: no this is not going to give the 737MAX a DC3-look) and this is not 100% sure either. Boeing said in the past they can possibly do it without making the front gear larger.

Jim Albaugh also confirmed that one control surface will get fly-by-wire altough he did not specify wich one. But programme sources indicated the spoilers are the most likely candidates for a fly-by-wire control system.

And last but not least: Boeing has now more than 600 orders and commitments from 8 customers, but except from AA (100) no other airline/leasor is kown. Dubai Air Show is comming... maybe some announcements overthere?

[earthman]

Jim Albaugh also confirmed that one control surface will get fly-by-wire altough he did not specify wich one.

My bet is on the left inboard aileron.

[RoMax]

Boeing announced they expect a 1% improvement in specific fuel consumption by aerodynamic improvements to the aft-fuselage of the 737MAX. The 737MAX will get a 787-look tail-cone as we've seen on the renderings on the 737MAX before. But this is the first time Boeing comments on this.

Boeing, which is still working on the design configuration of the Max, also said the extension of the nose landing gear will be 8in maximum, probably less. This extension is needed due to the bigger engine.

Boeing expects to release prices for the MAX by the end of this year, they also expect to sign the first firm orders by the end of the year (they currently have 700 commitments of 9 customers).

[sn26567]

Boeing expects to release prices for the MAX by the end of this year, they also expect to sign the first firm orders by the end of the year (they currently have 700 commitments of 9 customers).

Not sure that AA will be able to honour its commitment made under a Memorandum of Understanding...

Asked if AMR would be able to firm up 737MAX order during Chapter 11, Boeing Airplanes chief Albaugh was cautious, saying it has "to be determined".

[RoMax]

Boeing arranged an agreement with the labor union IAM about the 787 final-assembly in Charleston. Boeing promised IAM that the 737 (MAX) production will stay in Renton, Washington, under a new four-year contract. In turn IAM will inform the Obama administration that they will drop the National Labor Relations Board complaint against Boeing (because of the assembly line in Charleston).

[sn26567]

Airbus VP and supersalesman John Leahy said to Reuters he heard rumours that Boeing may have to go back to all-new clean sheet to compete with the A320neo. A bit of mischief or is he onto something?

[RoMax]

Airbus VP and supersalesman John Leahy said to Reuters he heard rumours that Boeing may have to go back to all-new clean sheet to compete with the A320neo. A bit of mischief or is he onto something?

He is giving this sort of comments as from the moment Boeing came up with the 737MAX (when AA commited to it)...so I would be suprised if this turns out to be true...

I assume just part of the catfight between Boeing and Airbus, everytime Boeing says something 'bad' about Airbus, Airbus says something 'bad' about Boeing, and when Airbus says something 'bad' about Boeing, Boeing says something 'bad' about Airbus... something that will never end I suppose

[RoMax]

Rynair's MOL (Michael O'Leary) is again not quite positive about the 737MAX. He calls is it as a "dog's dinner of a design", drawn "on the back of a fag packet as a response to the Airbus NEO". He says Boeing can't say how the MAX will look like or what fuel it'll be saving (meanwhile, Boeing says they are giving firm specifications to their customers and that these are included in the firm order contracts).

Still he is in talks with Boeing about an order for the 737-800NG or the 737MAX, they also work with COMAC to build a larger version of their C919. Airbus is currently not in the running.

If you ask me MOL is just 'pissed off' because he didn't get what he wanted (and tried to get by 'pushing' Boeing by working with Comac with their new aircraft), he wanted a new clean-sheet design, he got a renewed 737. With the A320neo he was happy, but he knows a conversion is too expensive (mainly because Airbus refuses the big price reductions that Ryanair wants). With the MAX he get basicly the same, but he's not happy with it... Why? Because again, he wanted to push Boeing to a clean sheet design by talking good about the Airbus NEO.

We see this kind of talk by Ryanair/MOL since they couldn't get to an agreement with Boeing for a new big order for 738's some years ago...for the first time Boeing refused to agree with RYR's demands and mainly, they refused to agree with their demand for huge price reductions. RYR didn't liked this and since then, no new order was placed by RYR.

And honestly, I don't think Boeing will agree with these demands this time... Because this time, RYR is not only demanding huge price reductions (as always), and some other high demands, but this time he wants Boeing to find a solution to increase the capacity of the 738 from 189 seats to 230 'places' (partly seats and partly standing places...). For that the rear lavatories and the last six rows of seats have to be removed, but the 738 is certified for 189 seats (the current capacity of RYR's 738's) and not more. The larger 737-900 is larger but the original version was also just allowed to have 189 seats (until they launched the -900ER with extra doors). Ryanair says they will not place an order before Boeing finds a solution for this...
RYR also approached and undisclosed aviation regulator with a view to trailling standing-area flights, the awnser was not what RYR wanted to hear (they said they received "no positive response").

In the mean time, onther Irish airline, Aer Lingus is evaluating the A320neo and B737MAX and not only for European flights... They are evaluating the A321neo and 737-9 for transatlantic operations out of Cork, Belfast and Shannon to the East coast of North-America (BOS, JFK/EWR and ORD).
Airbus said the A321neo would have a range of 6,890km, Boeing recently said the range of their 737MAX will equal, or better, its rival range. Aer Lingus calls the location of Ireland a big advantage for transatlantic flights with narrowbody aircraft. If their evaluations are possitive they'll order 5 737-9's or 5 A321neo's, that order will have no influence to their current A350 order.

[cnc]

it would make no sense for EI to order the 737MAX. altough cheaper it will perform less then the A320NEO versions and their fleet isn't big enough to go and split up in boeing and airbus narrowbodies

[RoMax]

it would make no sense for EI to order the 737MAX. altough cheaper it will perform less then the A320NEO versions and their fleet isn't big enough to go and split up in boeing and airbus narrowbodies

My toughts exactly (but I remained to the facts in my previous post ). If they want to fly transatlantic with these aircraft, it makes much more sense to order the A321NEO. Unless they change their whole fleet to the 737MAX for short en mid haul (and limited 'long' haul) and A350 for long haul. But I don't see that happening...

But it's logicall they also look at the MAX. That's like Southwest that also looked at the A320neo...of course they wouldn't order the NEO, but they are almost 'forced' to take, at least, a look at it.

[sn26567]

A Boeing 737 project engineer said today that the new 737MAX winglets will add a "couple of inches" wingspan but crucially they will still be within ICAO category C. The new 737MAX winglets will be based on Boeing technology, not AviationPartners. They will include some benefits from the 787 raked wingtips.

See on this picture how it will look: http://www.newairplane.com/737max/

[RoMax]

The new 737MAX winglets will be based on Boeing technology, not AviationPartners. They will include some benefits from the 787 raked wingtips.

It has a nice look if you ask me, altough I would like to see this in reall life before judging.

http://www.newairplane.com/737max/gallery/#/14

[flightlover]

That Boeing technology seems a lot like that of the MD11. I mean, it also has a double wing-let (one up; one down).

A technology that is over 20 years old. Though they may have updated it a bit. It does seem a bit more blended in.