Emirates vs. the rest : Der Spiegel Online

[DeltaWiskey]

the A350 isn't designed for ultra longhaul.

It definitely is. What do you think that ultra long haul is?

@1V1, didn't know you work for them.

[cnc]

the A350 isn't designed for ultra longhaul.

It definitely is. What do you think that ultra long haul is?

@1V1, didn't know you work for them.

well for me ULH is above 8000nmi. airbus may still be saying all A350 versions can fly 8400nmi but with the current specs it looks like its range will be a little less then that of the 77W

[DeltaWiskey]

You know there is currently only one route >8000nm?

I don't think there is a definition* of ULH , but it is generally accepted any flight longer than 6500nm/7500mi/12000km or >15h qualifies as ultra long haul...

*by ICAO, EASA, FAA, etc

[cnc]

You know there is currently only one route >8000nm?

I don't think there is a definition* of ULH , but it is generally accepted any flight longer than 6500nm/7500mi/12000km or >15h qualifies as ultra long haul...

*by ICAO, EASA, FAA, etc

well if you would scrap the hub-spoke system and go point to point there are suddenly be a lot of ULH routes.
the 787 and A350 are simply going to replace older aircraft, not changing the way of air travel on operational level

[1V1]

You know there is currently only one route >8000nm?

I don't think there is a definition* of ULH , but it is generally accepted any flight longer than 6500nm/7500mi/12000km or >15h qualifies as ultra long haul...

*by ICAO, EASA, FAA, etc

well if you would scrap the hub-spoke system and go point to point there are suddenly be a lot of ULH routes.
the 787 and A350 are simply going to replace older aircraft, not changing the way of air travel on operational level

On request of EK Boeing is working on a B777MAX. A newer version of the 777. For the moment the 777 is the only real ULR aircraft. The A350 is already delayed and the B787 is too small. The nice thing with the 777 is that it can take a full cabin with baggage and lots of cargo on these ULR flights.

The A340 burns so much more fuel EK doesn't use it any more on the long haul flights.

So no other options than the 777.

[cnc]

On request of EK Boeing is working on a B777MAX. A newer version of the 777. For the moment the 777 is the only real ULR aircraft. The A350 is already delayed and the B787 is too small. The nice thing with the 777 is that it can take a full cabin with baggage and lots of cargo on these ULR flights.

The A340 burns so much more fuel EK doesn't use it any more on the long haul flights.

So no other options than the 777.

is it not because EK has too much limitations on some of its 777 routes? LAX comes to mind

[1V1]

On request of EK Boeing is working on a B777MAX. A newer version of the 777. For the moment the 777 is the only real ULR aircraft. The A350 is already delayed and the B787 is too small. The nice thing with the 777 is that it can take a full cabin with baggage and lots of cargo on these ULR flights.

The A340 burns so much more fuel EK doesn't use it any more on the long haul flights.

So no other options than the 777.

is it not because EK has too much limitations on some of its 777 routes? LAX comes to mind

Since we fly these routes of more than 14 hours I've only been limited once on ZFW. In SFO in summer. But yes sometimes you can't take MaxZFW (summer).

[DeltaWiskey]

well if you would scrap the hub-spoke system and go point to point there are suddenly be a lot of ULH routes.
the 787 and A350 are simply going to replace older aircraft, not changing the way of air travel on operational level

The 787 will certainly be used to open new routes, which weren't possible before, but not with the first (50?) frames as they aren't that efficient yet.

ULH is very expensive (certainly >8000nm), even with the 787 (when its finally capable if it, LN90+). Not many people are willing to pay for it.
In fact, it is more fuel efficient to land for fuel in the middle of a 9000-10000km flight, or even 2 times on flights longer than 12000km.

That's another advantage the ME carriers have, they can transport people between Europe and SE-Asia/Australia burning less fuel than "home" carriers can with direct flights, even when flying 500-1000km more than the direct (great circle) route.

(Just did a back-of-the-enveloppe calc for the A340-500 SQ flight (longest route in the world), its fuel consumption is ±60% higher in the beginning of the flight vs the end. Its revenue payload is only 3% of the total take off weight of the airplane. Errr, efficiency?)

[DeltaWiskey]

is it not because EK has too much limitations on some of its 777 routes? LAX comes to mind

Since we fly these routes of more than 14 hours I've only been limited once on ZFW. In SFO in summer. But yes sometimes you can't take MaxZFW (summer).

Don't really understand you message, but a 77W cant get full payload (MZFW) from Dubai to LAX, or vice versa. Not even close.
Range 77W @MZFW: 5700NM
DXB-LAX: 7250NM
DXB-SFO: 7050NM

Clark already stated EK flies LAX-DXB regularly with a penalty on the 77W (30-40 empty seats).

[1V1]

Don't really understand you message, but a 77W cant get full payload (MZFW) from Dubai to LAX, or vice versa. Not even close.
Range 77W @MZFW: 5700NM
DXB-LAX: 7250NM
DXB-SFO: 7050NM

Clark already stated EK flies LAX-DXB regularly with a penalty on the 77W (30-40 empty seats).

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/777fam ... geles.html

Just clarifying that in my previous post the wording MZFW was indeed wrong. It should have been full pax payload and MTOW.

[andorra-airport]

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/777fam ... geles.html

Nice one, thanx

[1V1]

For info:


All changes are in effect from 30OCT11, unless otherwise noted. Additional changes remain possible:

Dubai – Cairo 12 weekly service maintained. Planned 13th weekly service cancelled
Dubai – Dakar Service increase from 4 to 6 weekly (Previously planned increase to 5 weekly)
Dubai – Dusseldorf eff 01NOV11 EK057/058 Airbus A340-300 replace A330-200 (Previously planned eff 01DEC11)
Dubai – Guangzhou eff 11NOV11 Daily Boeing 777-300ER service with First Class Suites, replace 2 weekly with Regular First Class and 5 weekly First Class Suite (Previously to be in effect from 30OCT11)
Dubai – Hamburg
eff 08NOV11 EK059/060 Boeing 777-300ER (with suites) replaces -300 (Previously planned from 30OCT11)
eff 01FEB12 EK061/062 Boeing 777-300ER (with Suites) replaces -200ER (Plan remains unchanged)
Dubai – Tunis Increase from 5 to 6 weekly. Planned Increase to Daily from 01DEC11 cancelled
Dubai – Vienna Planned service increase from 13 to 14 weekly from 01DEC11 is cancelled. EK125/126 continues to operate 6 weekly A340-500 flight

Previously mentioned changes:
Dubai – Accra – Abidjan eff 01FEB12 Airbus A340-500 replace -300
Dubai – Baghdad eff 13NOV11 NEW 4 weekly 3-class A330-200 service
Dubai – Bangalore eff 02DEC11 EK564/565 Airbus A340-300 replace A330-200, except Day 4 (previously planned Daily)
Dubai – Basra All 4 weekly service operates with 3-class A330-200 (Currently 1 of 4 weekly operates with 2-class)
Dubai – Casablanca eff 01FEB12 Boeing 777-300ER with Suites replacing Airbus A340-500
Dubai – Colombo – Singapore eff 01DEC11 Boeing 777-300 replace -300ER (Day 7 service planned 777-200 replace -300 canceled)
Dubai – Copenhagen eff 01FEB12 3-class Boeing 777-200ER replace Airbus A330-200
Dubai – Dallas eff 02FEB12 NEW Daily Boeing 777-200LR Service
EK221 DXB0245 – 0905DFW 77L D
EK222 DFW1150 – 1220+1DXB 77L D

Dubai – Delhi EK514/515 Boeing 777-200LR replace A340-500
Dubai – Dublin eff 09JAN12 NEW Daily A330-200 service
EK161 DXB0700 – 1130DUB 332 D
EK162 DUB1255 – 0025+1DXB 332 D

Dubai – Frankfurt
eff 30OCT11 Increase from 14 to 18 weekly (new flight EK043/044), further increase to 21 weekly from 01DEC11
eff 01DEC11 EK047/048 Boeing 777-300ER with Suites, replacing non-suite -300ER
EK043 DXB0320 – 0735FRA 332 D
EK044 FRA1000 – 1915DXB 332 D

Day x134 operates until 30NOV11

Dubai – Hamburg eff 01FEB12 EK061/062 Boeing 777-300ER with First Class Suite replace -200ER
Dubai – Hong Kong eff 02DEC11 NONSTOP service Increases from Daily to 12 weekly. New flight operates with A330-200
EK382 DXB0320 – 1430HKG 332 x24
EK383 HKG1605 – 2120DXB 332 x24

Dubai – Houston eff 01FEB12 Reduces from 2 to 1 Daily, EK213/214 cancelled
Dubai – Hyderabad eff 01DEC11 EK526/527, EK528/529 Airbus A340-300 replace A330-200
Dubai – Islamabad Increases from 5 to 7 weekly
Dubai – Khartoum Increase from 4 to 6 weekly, further increase to Daily from 05DEC11
Dubai – Kuala Lumpur eff 01JAN12 EK346/347 Airbus A380 replaces 777-300 (Previously planned from 01DEC11)
Dubai – Kuala Lumpur – Melbourne Boeing 777-300ER with Suites replace -300ER with regular First Class Seating
Dubai – Lahore Increases from 4 to 7 weekly
Dubai – London Heathrow eff 01DEC11 EK005/006 Boeing 777-300ER with Suites replace -300
Dubai – Lusaka – Harare eff 01FEB12 NEW 5 weekly 3-class A330-200 service
EK713 DXB0925 – 1450LUN1620 – 1720HRE 332 x46
EK714 HRE1920 – 2020LUN2150 – 0710+1DXB 332 x46

Dubai – Madrid Airbus A340-300 replaced by Boeing 777-300ER
30OCT11 – 30NOV11/01MAR12 – 24MAR12 777-300ER with Suites
01DEC11 – 29FEB12 777-300ER non suites

Dubai – Male Planned Boeing 777-300ER with Suites replace -300ER with regular First Class Seating, CANCELED
Dubai – Mauritius Frequency Increases
eff 30OCT11 Increase from 9 to 10 weekly
eff 01DEC11 Increase from 10 to 11 weekly

Dubai – Milan Malpensa eff 01DEC11 EK091/092 3-class 777-300 (non suites) replace Airbus A340-300
Dubai – Moscow Domodedovo EK131/132 Boeing 777-300ER with Suites operates Daily (currently 5 times a week with Suites)
Dubai – Munich
EK051/052 Daily A340-300, replace 6 weekly A340-300 and 1 weekly A330-200
EK049/050 eff 25NOV11 Airbus A380 replaces Boeing 777-300

Dubai – Nairobi eff 01FEB12 EK719/720 Airbus A340-300 replace A330-200
Dubai – Nice Airbus A340-300 replace A330-200, Daily
Dubai – Osaka Day 23 service continues to operate with 777-200LR, replace -300ER. Overall service remains Daily
Dubai – Peshawar Increases from 2 to 3 weekly
Dubai – Prague eff 01JAN12 3-class Boeing 777-300 replace 2-class Airbus A330-200. Introduction of Regular First Class
Dubai – Rio de Janeiro – Buenos Aires eff 03JAN12 NEW Daily 777-300ER with Suitesservice
Dubai – Rome eff 01DEC11
EK095/096 Boeing 777-300ER with Regular First Class replace Airbus A330-200
EK097/098 Airbus A380 replaces 777-300

Dubai – St. Petersburg eff 01NOV11 NEW Daily Nonstop service with A330-200/A340-300 (From 01JAN12 service operates with A340-300/-500)
EK137 DXB1035 – 1615LED 343 x1
EK137 DXB1035 – 1615LED 332 1

EK138 LED1745 – 0035+1DXB 343 x1
EK138 LED1745 – 0035+1DXB 332 1

EK137/138 Day 1 service operates with A340-500 from 02JAN12

Dubai – Seattle eff 01MAR12 NEW Daily Boeing 777-300ER service
EK229 DXB0950 – 1350SEA 77W D
EK230 SEA1725 – 1855+1DXB 77W D

Dubai – Seychelles Reduce from 11 to 10 weekly
Dubai – Shanghai Pu Dong
eff 30OCT11 EK302/303 A380 continues to operate 3 times a week
eff 01DEC11 EK304/305 Boeing 777-300ER replace Airbus A340-300

Dubai – Singapore eff 30OCT11 NONSTOP sector Increases from 14 to 19 weekly, further increases to 21 weekly from 01FEB12
EK354 DXB0325 – 1445SIN 77W D
EK355 SIN0200 – 0510DXB 77W D

EK354/355 operates Day x23 until 30JAN12

Dubai – Tokyo Narita Increases from 5 weekly to Daily, Boeing 777-300ER operating

[sn26567]

For info:

etc.

Please quote your source: Airline Route.

[1V1]

For info:

etc.

Please quote your source: Airline Route.

Source EK

[sn26567]

Source EK

OK!

[1V1]

Don't forget Seattle is Boeing town also. And the rumor is we've extra B777's coming. (announcement at the airshow)

What is your 'source' for this? I also think EK will order more, so any info is welcome. (but most articles i have read are orders for more A380)

It took the press some extra weeks but there you go
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/11/ ... sinessNews

[1V1]

Don't forget Seattle is Boeing town also. And the rumor is we've extra B777's coming. (announcement at the airshow)

I don't think Seattle will drain that much attraction from Vancouver, who is going to drive 2.5-3 hours, going through border control, just to fly Emirates?

Here you have the answer to that one,
http://www.vancouversun.com/Canadian+ai ... story.html

[DeltaWiskey]

Here you have the answer to that one,
http://www.vancouversun.com/Canadian+ai ... story.html

Indeed, it seems to prove my point. It's only US bound passengers that go take their flight in Seattle, the article doesn't mention any passenger that goes to Seattle for an international flight...

[DeltaWiskey]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/11/ ... sinessNews

I have read it in mean time as well, the only reason I asked for your source was to check its credibility. Since you are personnel there, I know where to classify it

[1V1]

Here you have the answer to that one,
http://www.vancouversun.com/Canadian+ai ... story.html

Indeed, it seems to prove my point. It's only US bound passengers that go take their flight in Seattle, the article doesn't mention any passenger that goes to Seattle for an international flight...

It explains why Canadian passengers prefer to go to the US to take a flight. Be it international or a US flight it doesn't matter much does it?

The question was why would a Canadian citizen rather take a plane in Seattle than Vancouver. I think this article gives you the answer.