Brussels Airlines vs Senegal Airlines

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OO-ITR
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Re: Brussels Airlines vs Senegal Airlines

Post by OO-ITR »

Darjeeling wrote:Let's take the other way then:

What would be SN's reaction if Senegal Airlines established a mini-hub in BRU with flights to GVA, TXL, BMA ?
to my knowlegde, SN has never used political help to force a competitor out of BRU. Or am I wrong?
Though I trust SN will smoke Senegal Airlines out with one of their well-known code-sahre agreement one day or the other.
please elaborate!

rwandan-flyer
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Re: Brussels Airlines vs Senegal Airlines

Post by rwandan-flyer »

It's seems that there is or were a similar problem with Mauritania :
Senegalese Prime Minister Soulayemane Ndene Ndiaye arrived in Nouakchott last week in an attempt to resolve a lingering air and land transportation dispute with Mauritania.
http://www.magharebia.com/cocoon/awi/xh ... feature-04
Rwanda Aviation News (Drones, Air Force, Civil Aviation, Space, Air Balloon): https://www.facebook.com/RwandAn-Flyer-153177931456873

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sn26567
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Re: Brussels Airlines vs Senegal Airlines

Post by sn26567 »

An agreement has been signed today, Monday 17 October 2011, between Senegal and Belgium. There could be as many as 8 weekly flights between Dakar and Brussels, 4 operated by Brussels Airlines and 4 by Senegal Airlines. But if they sign a bilateral agreement with Senegal Airlines, Brussels Airlines could operate some of their flights (against payment).

Nothing is said about SN flights continuing from Dakar to other destinations in Africa, except that there will be a cooperation between the two airlines...

Hereunder the text of the press release by the Government of Senegal:
SENEGAL-BELGIQUE-TRANSPORTS

Vers huit fréquences hebdomadaires entre Dakar et Bruxelles

17/10/2011 14:45 GMT

Dakar, 17 oct (APS) - Le ministre d’Etat sénégalais Karim Wade et le secrétaire d’Etat à la Mobilité du Royaume de Belgique, Etienne Schouppe, ont procédé à la signature lundi à Dakar d’un accord aérien bilatéral qui va se traduire par huit fréquences hebdomadaires entre les deux pays.

’En partant du trafic réel existant entre les deux pays le nombre de fréquence hebdomadaire a été fixé à huit à raison de quatre pour chaque partie avec la possibilité de le réviser à chaque fois que la demande l’exige’’, a indiqué le ministre d’Etat Karim Wade à l’issue de la signature du protocole d’accord aérien.

Cet accord, a-t-il ajouté, a également permis de sceller un partenariat commercial convenable entre les deux compagnies nationales Brussels Airlines et Senegal Airlines. Un partenariat commercial, qui selon lui, vise à renforcer le trafic aérien entre l’Europe et l’Afrique de l’Ouest.

Le ministre sénégalais de la Coopération internationale, des Transports aériens, des Infrastructures et de l’Energie a précisé que cet accord aérien avec la Belgique a été négocié dans un esprit d’équité et de respect des avantages mutuels entre les parties.

Il a expliqué qu’il permet à ces deux compagnies de coopérer sur la ligne Bruxelles-Dakar et sur des destinations desservies au-delà de l’Europe grâce à des accords interlignes (…) et de faciliter le voyage des passagers souhaitant faire un même voyage avec les deux compagnies.

’Il permet aussi à Brussels Airlines d’exploiter plus que les quatre fréquences hebdomadaires qui lui sont dédiées sur la base de l’accord aérien bilatéral en convenant avec Senegal Airlines une ou plusieurs de ces quatre fréquences en payement de redevances’’, a dit le ministre d’Etat Karim Wade.

Il a estimé que cet accord constitue un modèle à suivre avec les autres partenaires et constitue un symbole des relations nord-sud réussies. ‘’Il nous permettra d’emprunter les airs main dans la main pour le plus grand bonheur des usagers belges et sénégalais’’, selon M. Wade.

Dans sa réaction le secrétaire d’Etat à la mobilité du royaume de Belgique, Etienne Schouppe, a estimé que l’accord a toute son importance dans la mesure où il n’est pas une phase finale d’une coopération entre les compagnies aériennes et les deux pays.

’Nous sommes convaincus que cet accord peut être le point de départ d’autres types de coopération de collaboration que nous pourront développer à l’avenir entre nos deux pays’’, a expliqué M. Schouppe qui était à la tête d’une forte délégation belge.

Il est vrai que, a-t-il souligné, pour l’Afrique de l’Ouest, Bruxelles Airlines joue le rôle de point nodal sur le plan du transport aérien. ‘’Nous nous rendons compte que pour la partie ouest de l’Afrique, Dakar a le potentiel et se développera en point nodal pour le trafic aérien dans cette partie du continent.’’

A cet effet, a-t-il estimé, les deux têtes de pont que sont Bruxelles et Dakar pourront être à la base d’un grand développement entre l’Ouest de l’Afrique et de l’Europe par des vols réguliers qui pourront être fructueux pour les deux compagnies.
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sn26567
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Re: Brussels Airlines vs Senegal Airlines

Post by sn26567 »

sn26567 wrote:Nothing is said about SN flights continuing from Dakar to other destinations in Africa, except that there will be a cooperation between the two airlines...
According to Reuters, "(Transport Minister) Wade said Senegal Airlines and Brussels Airlines will discuss at a latter stage the possibility for Brussels Airlines to run more West African routes through Dakar."
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RoMax
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Re: Brussels Airlines vs Senegal Airlines

Post by RoMax »

So if SN wants to fly more than 4 weekly to DKR they need to pay Senegal Airlines to be able to operate more flights? And the possibility of SN operating to other African destinations trough DKR will also depend on Senegal Airlines?

I have the idea Senegal Airlines will be very happy to sign such agreements with SN...at a price, a high price. Hopefully Senegal Airlines sees the advantages of working together with SN so that they will not ask too much of SN.

LJ
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Re: Brussels Airlines vs Senegal Airlines

Post by LJ »

sn26567 wrote:An agreement has been signed today, Monday 17 October 2011, between Senegal and Belgium. There could be as many as 8 weekly flights between Dakar and Brussels, 4 operated by Brussels Airlines and 4 by Senegal Airlines. But if they sign a bilateral agreement with Senegal Airlines, Brussels Airlines could operate some of their flights (against payment).
Thus SN must reduce their frequency to DKR or pay Senegal Airlines for at least 1 weekly flight? This is a very bad deal for SN. Moreover as Senegal Airlines doesn't even have the equipment to start service to Brussels. I wonder if the Senegalese government even tries to get such a deal with France for DKR-CDG.

BTW I reckon that AF, TP and IB will be pleased that one of their competitors will be disadvantaged for a while.

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RoMax
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Re: Brussels Airlines vs Senegal Airlines

Post by RoMax »

LJ wrote:
BTW I reckon that AF, TP and IB will be pleased that one of their competitors will be disadvantaged for a while.
The thing is, on the first sight this doesn't look such a good agreement for SN. But if Senegal Airlines is willing enough to work together with SN at a good level, they are both in an advantage. Senegal Airlines will have some kind of codeshare or interline agreement with SN (or maybe they already have it?) wich is in the advantage of SN. And Senegal Airlines says they want to fly flights to Europe as fast as possible, but if they work together with SN they will avoid BRU and instead go head-on with airlines like AF, IB, TP.
And if SN and Senegal Airlines can agree on a good agreement, SN could restart flights to other destinations in West-Africa trough DKR.
But I know this is only in the most ideal situation and Senegal Airlines is probably going to ask a serious amount of money from SN. But I think this is the best they could get with Senegal. Everything is difficult in Africa, not only for SN or Belgium.

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Re: Brussels Airlines vs Senegal Airlines

Post by sn-remember »

5 wkly freq is better than 4 ..
They should have pushed harder for 5. Indeed I would not give in to their "blackmail".
I really fail to see why SN should pay extra fees to the incumbant carrier .. Does AF or EK or TK or KQ or ET or SA (or any competitor) need to pay compensation to AirSenegal for operating a "monopoly" route to DKR ?

Concerning the tag-on ban, it's to me unheard of , at least very unusual ... and indeed damaging to SN specifically. Again I don't see SA or KQ or ET or .. who else being likewise hit.
Anyways, it's really a crazy thing to blatantly interfere in the carrier's strategy (tag or no tag routing). Of course 5th freedom grants are a matter of negociation. But SN can survive without being granted a 5th freedom on a route like BRU-DKR-BJL-BRU .. no?

The only alternative for SN is the no tag option BRU-DKR-BRU for which a smaller frame could do the job (A332 ?) .. However frequency is an important factor and less than 5/wk should not be recommended on this route (imho)
Still, things being what they are, a 4wky A333 could still effectively do the job given the latter's belly cargo capability.


I don't like the compromise reached, it seems directed against SN specifically and looks to me unfair business practice.

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