Air India or Jet Airways, who will join Star Alliance?

[Darjeeling]

9W and Star is blablabla and a lot of blablabla speculation on the back of Air India.

In fact S.T negotiates hard with 9W and GOL, it is widely known at AF-KL, plus Schiphol is also taking part to the talks with 9W.

They absolutely want those two. Having in mind that GOL-Varig might start intercontinental flights rather sooner than later.

[diminbru]

9W and Star is blablabla and a lot of blablabla speculation on the back of Air India.

In fact S.T negotiates hard with 9W and GOL, it is widely known at AF-KL, plus Schiphol is also taking part to the talks with 9W.

They absolutely want those two. Having in mind that GOL-Varig might start intercontinental flights rather sooner than later.

I guess we will have to wait until the 31st of July.
Anyway if Jet joins Star, than this is good news for BRU airport.
If Jet joins Skyteam, than this is good news for SN. They might take over some routes of 9W, esp. now that they will start US service next year

[LJ]

In fact S.T negotiates hard with 9W and GOL, it is widely known at AF-KL, plus Schiphol is also taking part to the talks with 9W.

However the rumor that 9W will start a flight to AMS is not confirmed (yet) by the slot requests for IATA Winter 2011.

Anyway if Jet joins Star, than this is good news for BRU airport.

Not necessarily, 9W will probably start more nonstop flights to North America anyway, bypassing their BRU hub.

If Jet joins Skyteam, than this is good news for SN. They might take over some routes of 9W, esp. now that they will start US service next year

This will be wishful thinking. The market ex BRU is very small and why bother going into the low yield US-India market? Moreover, why would LH allow SN to enter in one of its own markets? Not very good for yields

I guess we will have to wait until the 31st of July.

.

I'm almost 100% sure that this will be the date where we'll see an announcement by Star (regarding AI) followed a few days later by an announcement by 9W. It will be virtually impossible that there will be an announcement regarding both AI and 9W on the same day as this will hurt AI's ego.

[diminbru]

If Jet joins Skyteam, than this is good news for SN. They might take over some routes of 9W, esp. now that they will start US service next year

This will be wishful thinking. The market ex BRU is very small and why bother going into the low yield US-India market? Moreover, why would LH allow SN to enter in one of its own markets? Not very good for yields

sorry i didn't say in my post that SN should start flying to India. I was mainly talking about North America : JFK-EWR and maybe YYZ

[Boeing767copilot]

Officials to meet on Air India’s Star induction
http://atwonline.com/airline-finance-da ... ction-0715

[kiwiandrew]

Be aware that there has been no official confirmation of this news report, and that it has been reported in only one news source ( the Centre for Asia Pacific Aviation) . None of the other regular aviation news sources (flightglobal, aviation week etc) have picked up on this story as far as I can see which makes me wonder what was, or was not said by Jan Albrecht at the ceremony.

only one news source? I found several others :
http://boardingarea.com/blogs/unroadwar ... ner-wings/
http://www.thehindu.com/business/compan ... 081679.ece
http://www.dancewithshadows.com/pub/sta ... ia-jet.asp
http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes ... f-carriers
http://www.centreforaviation.com/news/2 ... ndia/page1
in this article you will see : "When asked what this might mean for the alliance in terms of coverage on the sub-continent, Mr Albrecht said that there were other options and that even if Air India were to meet the deadline, the agreement does not promise exclusivity to AI. With Kingfisher already claimed by oneworld, the obvious candidate is Jet Airways which currently hubs its trans-Atlantic operations at Brussels Airport, hub for Brussels Airlines, and a Star member."

strangly I also found this website : http://www.jetairwaysbooking.co.in/info ... r-alliance
lol

I have to say I am very confused, I have opened up every single link you have provided and I have found no mention at all of Jan Albrecht's supposed ultimatum that *A are not prepared to accept AI unless they can also have a second Indian carrier, except on the link from the Centre for Asia Pacific Aviation ( which is the source I have already acknowledged for this rumour). Am I missing something?

[diminbru]

I have to say I am very confused, I have opened up every single link you have provided and I have found no mention at all of Jan Albrecht's supposed ultimatum that *A are not prepared to accept AI unless they can also have a second Indian carrier, except on the link from the Centre for Asia Pacific Aviation ( which is the source I have already acknowledged for this rumour). Am I missing something?

People PLEASE do not turn my words around. I never talked about an ultimatum to AI. Is it possible to actually read my post before you answer?
I only stated that Star can hold two Indian carriers. That is it! Nothing more, nothing less.
Now if you reread my post and the links I added, you will see that in the articles, the journalists talk about Star having two Indian carriers...

[kiwiandrew]

I have to say I am very confused, I have opened up every single link you have provided and I have found no mention at all of Jan Albrecht's supposed ultimatum that *A are not prepared to accept AI unless they can also have a second Indian carrier, except on the link from the Centre for Asia Pacific Aviation ( which is the source I have already acknowledged for this rumour). Am I missing something?

People PLEASE do not turn my words around. I never talked about an ultimatum to AI. Is it possible to actually read my post before you answer?
I only stated that Star can hold two Indian carriers. That is it! Nothing more, nothing less.
Now if you reread my post and the links I added, you will see that in the articles, the journalists talk about Star having two Indian carriers...

I am not turning your words around... I think you might want to take your own advise and read my post properly. A couple of days ago I responded to MRBoeings post "Indeed, see one of the previous posts, Star will only allow AI if they and the Indian government agree with a second Indian member (Jet Airways of course)." by saying that I had only seen a single news source for that story. You then responded to my post by saying "only one news source? I found several others" and then listed 5 links , 4 of which had nothing to do with the ultimatum. So please don't turn my words around.

[diminbru]

I have to say I am very confused, I have opened up every single link you have provided and I have found no mention at all of Jan Albrecht's supposed ultimatum that *A are not prepared to accept AI unless they can also have a second Indian carrier, except on the link from the Centre for Asia Pacific Aviation ( which is the source I have already acknowledged for this rumour). Am I missing something?

People PLEASE do not turn my words around. I never talked about an ultimatum to AI. Is it possible to actually read my post before you answer?
I only stated that Star can hold two Indian carriers. That is it! Nothing more, nothing less.
Now if you reread my post and the links I added, you will see that in the articles, the journalists talk about Star having two Indian carriers...

I am not turning your words around... I think you might want to take your own advise and read my post properly. A couple of days ago I responded to MRBoeings post "Indeed, see one of the previous posts, Star will only allow AI if they and the Indian government agree with a second Indian member (Jet Airways of course)." by saying that I had only seen a single news source for that story. You then responded to my post by saying "only one news source? I found several others" and then listed 5 links , 4 of which had nothing to do with the ultimatum. So please don't turn my words around.

well once again, don't turn my words around. It's something Mr Boeing said. Not me !!! I only talked about Star holding two Indian carriers. PERIOD! This thread is about Jet Airways possibly joining Star. Not about the ultimatum!

[Air Key West]

some may say "off topic", but nevertheless...
http://gulfnews.com/business/aviation/a ... t-1.839641

[sn26567]

Also slightly off topic, but it helps explain things:

Ramachandra Guha: India is too corrupt to become a superpower

The sociologist Ashis Nandy once noted that “in India the choice could never be between chaos and stability, but between manageable and unmanageable chaos”. He wrote this in the 1980s, a decade marked by ethnic strife, caste violence, and bloody religious riots. But it applies even more so to the India of today, and is being made worse by the steady deterioration and corruption of India’s ruling political elite.

http://link.ft.com/r/QM42II/300352/UUTE ... a2=7&a3=19

[EBKT]

'Talks progressing Air India's induction into Star Alliance'
India News
By IANS,

New Delhi : International airline association Star Alliance Monday described as progressive the talks held between its members and senior government officials on inducting national carrier Air India's into the grouping.

"A meeting was held today to discuss the integration and induction process of Air India into the alliance," Markus Rüdiger, director, media relations, Star Alliance told IANS.

According to Rüdiger, the talks were progressive on the issue of Air India's systems integration and the eventual induction of the airline.

"This was a routine meeting between government and Air India officials with us. A range of topics, including the induction, was discussed," Rüdiger said.

He said that a final decision on the induction of the airline and the date for the agreement would be taken by the board members of Star Alliance.

No further date or schedule for the next meeting was disclosed.

Air India officials said that the meeting was held to take stock of the progress made by the airline to join the international airlines' network.

The airline plans to join the Star Alliance network by July 31 this year.

Earlier, in a meeting between both the sides, the national carrier's representatives apprised the readiness of Air India to join Star Alliance by July 31.

Formed in 1997, Star Alliance is a consortium of 27 airlines, including Lufthansa, Air Canada, Singapore Airlines, Thai Airways and Swiss, among other major airlines of the world. Its members have more than 4,000 aircraft and serve 181 countries.

Star Alliance has certain minimum joining requirements, which involve development and testing systems, and procedures to harmonize the product with other members.

Currently Air India operates flights to 63 domestic destinations and has a network of 33 international destinations with a fleet of 127, which includes Airbus A-319, A-320, A-321, A-310, A-330, Boeing 737-800, B-777 and B-747 apart from ATR-42 and CRJ aircraft

source: http://twocircles.net/2011jul18/talks_p ... iance.html

[EBKT]

On Sunday the deadline is over and the *A members will be voting...

http://www.moneycontrol.com/news/busine ... 70365.html

[kiwiandrew]

Interesting development

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/busi ... 400233.cms


Meanwhile, AI's difficulties seem to be mounting with each passing day. Now the airline's entry into Lufthansa-led Star Alliance is facing a question mark due to twin factors of not meeting all formalities before the July deadline and hesitation on part of some member airlines over inducting the Maharaja into the fold. Sources said the entry into Star Alliance - which would have boosted passenger bookings for AI - is likely to be put on hold.

The aviation ministry, however, is putting up a brave front. Senior officials said the world's second largest alliance after Star, Air France-KLM-led SkyTeam, has approached them for inducting AI as a member. The only other major global alliance, British Airways-led One World, has already announced Kingfisher as a future member. "If Star Alliance acts pricey, we have options. Star had committed to taking AI as a member and not doing so will not go down well," said one official.

While the official is correct to say that *A made commitments to AI, what he neglected to mention is that AI also made commitments to *A , to date, in spite of plenty of assistance from *A and generous leeway given as they missed deadline after deadline AI have failed to meet those commitments.

[RoMax]

Air India claims that they succeeded to meet all Star Alliance requirements. An Air India official said that Star Alliance will decide tomorrow on the entry date of Air India. But, Air India may say they met all requirements, that doesn't mean they will join the alliance... During the board meeting of Star Alliance tomorrow, all 27 Star members have to agree that AI will join the alliance (every airline has a veto right, so 1 airline can block AI).

But IF they indeed met all the requirements of Star, I don't think they will block the airline to join. AI is not the ideal member to have, but if they block AI Star can end without any Indian member (as India will block 9W to join star) and Skyteam will probably run away with AI.

[sn26567]

Looks like Air India missed the deadline for joining Star Alliance?

Not my comment, but that of Airline Route...

[cnc]

even if they made the deadline there's a good chance one of the members is going to veto against AI's joining

[Boeing767copilot]

STAR ALLIANCE AND AIR INDIA PUT AIR INDIA’S MEMBERSHIP APPLICATION ON HOLD

NEW DELHI, India – July 31st, 2011 – The member airlines of the Star Alliance network and Air India have jointly concluded that the integration of Air India into the global airline alliance will be suspended. This is due to the fact that Air India has not met the minimum joining conditions that were contractually agreed in December 2007.

Following a recent review of the status of Air India’s application at a meeting held between the Indian Ministry for Civil Aviation, Star Alliance CEO, Jaan Albrecht and the Air India CMD, Arvind Jadhav, the decision to suspend has received subsequent confirmation by the Star Alliance Chief Executive Board.

Star Alliance CEO, Jaan Albrecht said: “With the collective decision to put the integration efforts on hold today we aim to contribute to Air India’s flexibility to concentrate on its ongoing strategic reorientation. In this process our member carriers will continue to provide assistance to Air India wherever required.”

Existing bilateral relationships with Star Alliance member airlines are not affected by this decision, which also leaves room to discuss a potential Alliance membership at a future stage, if deemed appropriate by both parties.

[tolipanebas]

Indeed, STAR alliance has formally decided NOT to accept Air India, because even after 4 years of trying, they just can't be made STAR compliant, something SN could in just 9 months! Don't be fooled by the wording 'on hold': reality is Air india didn't stand a change to be accepted, because several members had already said they were going to veto their acceptance in the elite alliance, because of too low standards!

Let's hope 9W gets invited to join STAR alliance really soon now: it is well known STAR is the alliance of their choice (over Skyteam) and now that Air India won't join, the Indian government has no more obvious reason to block 9W from entering STAR under the 'one airline per alliance' policy they uphold. Besides, 9W has a far better product than AI: let skyteam mess with AI till it makes their heads spin!

It may take a while before the dust is settled, but this is potentially really great news for BRU and SN, because it suddenly becomes far less likely for 9W to leave BRU.... just imagine 9W as part of STAR!

[RoMax]

It's simple, all 27 airlines had to vote, and at least one (I suppose much more) voted against. So basicly that would end the story for AI. Star probably said they are on hold, because of Jet. Jet IS already invited (as said by LH some months ago), but the question is if they CAN join without AI.
India states that they are not blocking any airline of joining an alliance, but at the same time they say that if AI can't join Star, nobody will join Star. India is as corrupt as you can be and Star can't do anything about it. So probably they will now try to get 9W in without AI, if they don't succeed they will go for AI and 9W. Not because they want AI, but because they need them.