Ryanair and COMAC

[cathay belgium]

Hi,

Just read on the net that Ryanair is going to help COMAC to built a 'serious'
alternative for the A320 B737 !

Imagine a Low COST AIRLINE that's gonna help building 'MADE in CHINA' planes !

Goodluck ! ( to the future pax this time )

FR-COMAC : building the cheapest planes with less in it

No I don't need that,please raise your fares in this case !

CX-B

source
http://www.luchtvaartnieuws.nl/nl-NL/Ni ... pagina.cms

[cnc]

and why would this be a bad thing?
if you think the 737 classic and NG are horrible i can follow you or is it the boeing label that defines its good or bad? Ofcourse its also possible you don't see WN as a crappy low cost carrier.

[Bralo20]

And now a link which doesn't need to be paid for to read (my biggest grief towards luchtvaartnieuws.nl: if you want to read everything you need to pay and yet they have commercials on their site):

http://www.ryanair.com/en/news/ryanair- ... u-in-paris


Btw: The news is confirmed on COMAC's site though only in Chinese at the moment:

http://www.comac.cc/main/dt/201106/21/t ... 7961.shtml

[Bralo20]

Btw:

The COMAC C919 doesn't look to bad on paper, if they can get the quality, the economics and a lovely price together with a major airline like Ryanair ordering a big bunch of them it could be a potential hit...

And the days that Chinese only made bad copies lies way past us now... They are able to produce western quality those days...

[sn26567]

And now a link which doesn't need to be paid for to read (my biggest grief towards luchtvaartnieuws.nl: if you want to read everything you need to pay and yet they have commercials on their site):

http://www.ryanair.com/en/news/ryanair- ... u-in-paris

And it was also announced yesterday, free of charge, on Luchtzak: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=44986&start=40#p250565

[Bralo20]

And it was also announced yesterday, free of charge, on Luchtzak: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=44986&start=40#p250565

Even better (though I must have missed that )

[cathay belgium]

Hi,

First sorry André that I missed it on my own beloved site !
Second sorry that I still get strange vibes when I hear Chinese and plane in one sentence..
China developed offcourse but just saw a remarkable TV series of chinese nuclear reactors yesterday evening that shows radioactivity near a chinese nuclear site is 10x higher than elsewhere..
IMHO first prove then believe !
What can FR possible bring up for an aircraft manufacturer ? ( besides interior )
I guess less fuel burn,lightweighted, easy maintenance , and 200 seats will do the job,no ?
Or what else will MoL bring up for the Chinese.

Call me oldfashioned, I stay with Boeing ( or Airbus ).
Even prefer a SUKHOI

CX-B

[cathay belgium]

Hi,

Just googled C919 and wonder where the chinese went shopping Embraer or Bombardier ?

Offcourse standing seats and WC-paying doors will do the trick !

CX-B

[earthman]

I think O'Leary thinks that he will give them one of his 737s and they will make cheap copies of it...?

I can't begin to fathom the agony of the passengers on a plane that O'Leary helped design. Heating? Nah, we'll sell warm jackets on board. Interior noise? Nah, we'll sell them earplugs. Windows? Nah, we move people around, we don't organize sightseeing tours.

[regi]

And the days that Chinese only made bad copies lies way past us now... They are able to produce western quality those days...

I am waiting .
So are all my customers of which several are world leaders in their field of manufacturing.
You can get good quality in China, no doubt about that. My first iMac was made in PRC 11 years ago, and it still works perfectly. But it was manufactured according Apple standards, under Apple supervision etcetera.
But you can NEVER rely on Chinese quality. That is because of difference of mentality. A Chinese businnessman is proud that he succeeded to sell crap and looks down on his customer as "inferior" because he accepted that.
You will always have to control every shipment , even after making 10 years the same part. The moment that a Chinese feels he can make more profit by subcontracting the job at a cheaper Chinese supplier without informing the end user, he will do it.
My latest orders are all products for safety parts build in mass transport devices for European and USA customers. The client refuses any delivery with any component from China. But this same client has its own manufacturing sites in China for the Chinese market and cheap export markets where the products are sold under a Chinese brand name.
I have seen several certificates from well known Chinese manufacturers which were completely fabricated. The parts were not tested. The figures on the certificates were just what the customer asked.
Before you reply , be aware I have been in the PRC before , in the heart of high tech manufacturing sites. And I have seen where it goes wrong.
What Chinese products concern, I still don't see Chinese developed high tech goods appear on our western markets. Lenovo = IBM ...

[regi]

China developed offcourse but just saw a remarkable TV series of chinese nuclear reactors yesterday evening that shows radioactivity near a chinese nuclear site is 10x higher than elsewhere..
IMHO first prove then believe !

A off topic remark, but as important regarding safety. China made a deal with Areva to buy 2 new generation reactors ( without the "drawings") but receiving the drawings of the previous generation reactors. To build in China for China itself and cheap export markets.
A quick simple article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CPR-1000
Now you have to consider that those previous designs are 30-40 year old! Manufacturing in Europe of the strategic components was performed in specific companies with the help of US companies, universities and stringent control cells. Some of those companies have closed down 20 years ago. Most of the involved people have retired. The anounced closure/step out of nuclear industry has also not helped to keep the specific manufacturing knowledge.
At this very moment, the Chinese are struggling to get things right. I know some engineers >60 year old ( retired and paid in China to evade taxation in Europe) who try to assist in the manufacturing of those basic components. And what they see and say is ...doomsday ! It is very specific, too technical for this website.
Allow me to make a comparison with high quality wood working. You can get windows in wood that will last for a very long time and which will not bend, leak, rot. But it starts with the wood you use. There are different kinds of oak for example. And you have to let it rest several years before using. You can not control how long this wood has rested. I hope you get my point. And when your windows do bend , you can go back to your supplier and he must replace them free of charge.
The big difference between wooden windows that leak and a stainless steel valve that suffers pitting ( Google it ), is a documentory as you saw on TV, of a Chinese woman who lives in a contaminated area, waiting for her end.

[regi]

The COMAC C919 doesn't look to bad on paper, if they can get the quality, the economics and a lovely price together with a major airline like Ryanair ordering a big bunch of them it could be a potential hit...

And the days that Chinese only made bad copies lies way past us now... They are able to produce western quality those days...

I hope for all Ryanair passengers -if this deal goes through - that Comac will perform the wing stress test before launching the product instead of just delivering the coffin and waiting untill something happens. As it did now.

I have to agree with your vocabulary: "a potential hit. " ( but I guess we translate it differently )

[earthman]

I hope for all Ryanair passengers -if this deal goes through - that Comac will perform the wing stress test before launching the product instead of just delivering the coffin and waiting untill something happens. As it did now.

From what you wrote, the fact that they would even bother to perform a wing stress test would have no relationship to the quality or strength of any actually delivered plane.

[cnc]

I hope for all Ryanair passengers -if this deal goes through - that Comac will perform the wing stress test before launching the product instead of just delivering the coffin and waiting untill something happens. As it did now.

could you give us a bit more details about the bold part?

[sean1982]

I hope for all Ryanair passengers -if this deal goes through - that Comac will perform the wing stress test before launching the product instead of just delivering the coffin and waiting untill something happens. As it did now.

could you give us a bit more details about the bold part?

Yes, and why would EASA and JAA approve an aircraft for flights in europe when it hasn't been tested according to THEIR standards?

[luchtzak]

Ryanair is playing poker: adding a 3th party will lower the prices of Boeing/Airbus!

[andorra-airport]

I hope for all Ryanair passengers -if this deal goes through - that Comac will perform the wing stress test before launching the product instead of just delivering the coffin and waiting untill something happens. As it did now.

could you give us a bit more details about the bold part?

Not sure, but I guess he means the wing problems with the ARJ21.

[regi]

I hope for all Ryanair passengers -if this deal goes through - that Comac will perform the wing stress test before launching the product instead of just delivering the coffin and waiting untill something happens. As it did now.

could you give us a bit more details about the bold part?

Not sure, but I guess he means the wing problems with the ARJ21.

yes indeed

[earthman]

They did a wing stress test on the ARJ21. It failed the test and the wing has been redesigned. This was all during the flight test program, certainly not after delivery (which was pushed back by a year because of this). Oh and that wing was designed by Antonov. Then again the Chinese might have replaced the aluminum with bamboo.

[regi]

They did a wing stress test on the ARJ21. It failed the test and the wing has been redesigned. This was all during the flight test program, certainly not after delivery (which was pushed back by a year because of this). Oh and that wing was designed by Antonov. Then again the Chinese might have replaced the aluminum with bamboo.

after release
correction: static tests in 2010 after test flights in 2009.