Stewardessen Brussels Airlines kennen weinig glamour

[b.lufthansa]

Found this PDF on the web (Magazine: ons recht)

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=2URANWMB

[Boavida]

Ik zou zeggen dat Brussels Airlines in z'n geheel weinig (tot geen) glamour kent. Maar dat heb je natuurlijk als je een naam kiest die klinkt als een regionaal maatschappijtje...

[papabravo]

on this site, you will learn all about the FA's problems

http://aclvb-cgslb.blogspot.com/

[Shanti]

zijn de lonen echt zo laag?

[acba]

Interesting link!
What I don't understand is the all the commotion about the one weekly flight to HRG and TCP for Club Med. Probably the duty time is amongst the largest in the SN network, but why can these flights 'easily' be done with JAF and FQ and not with SN? Management of SN has even already given a fifth cabin crew member (on 168 - 3 = max 165 passengers, whereas FQ can do the flight with 180 pax and 4 CCMs).

The second proposed solution sounds even more bizar: positioning the crew with FQ one day earlier in HRG! The crew doing the outbound flight returns in positioning with the inbound flight, which would make the max capacity of the A320 only 160 pax.

[tolipanebas]

What I don't understand is the all the commotion about the one weekly flight to HRG and TCP for Club Med. Probably the duty time is amongst the largest in the SN network, but why can these flights 'easily' be done with JAF and FQ and not with SN?

Because my friend, there might be few glamour at SN (what a word BTW, there's nobody working just for glamour at any airline these days, people work there to earn a living), but at least there's still a CAO/CCT governing our duty times and triangular return flights to Egypt are impossible to fit into it!

At JAF they simply fly up to the maximum allowed legal limits as have been drafted by the Belgian CAA decades ago, thus conveniently forgetting this elementary administrative document was not written with continued airline operations in mind, but was solely ment as framework for occasional air operators which have only very few flights and thus can not cope with the hassle of drafting their own full CAO/CCT which takes into account not just the one flight itself, but also the series of flights which are made consecutively as one works a full week for instance!

The thing is these 'substitute rules' from the Belgian CAA ment for occasional commercial operators have become the unquestioned reference in Belgium for airline operations too and the one airline that still has a somewhat stricter CAO/CCT sees it as a real handicap not to be able to do what others are doing on a daily basis.

It's a race to the bottom really, hence Belgium should ASAP ratify the far stricter flight duty times proposed by the EU parliament so as to stop our airlines competing on what in essence is a safety matter (duty and rest times), but guess what???? The association of Belgian airlines is lobbying full force to stop that from happening, because the EU legislation would prevent a lot of combinations flown 'without problem' like you say...

Indeed, our Belgian legislation is far more relaxed than the US or British duty times: do not think for a second any UK or US registered plane/crew could ever do a BRU-HRG-TCP-BRU return flight for instance, so clearly there is some kind of a problem with it in their eyes, but then what does the FAA know about flying, right?

[sean1982]

I have a couple of friends at jaf and fq though and they all are extremely happy with their job. So why is it then that they are not complaining? What's the difference between them and bru. air?
Maybe in those airlines THE unions are not stirring up the pot? Strange that still people can be happy without them around

[Shanti]

Maybe because flight attendants for JAF are very young and can deal more with these working days.

[sean1982]

Ok you have a point, but that is not the case with fq, who also have a lot of ex-sabeniens

[tolipanebas]

Indeed, the life of a 21-year old still living at her parents' place is very much different from the life of a 40-year old recently divorsed single mum...

It'll all be the fault of those damn'd unions once more, I am sure, but let's face it: who's really representative of the average employee with a full time job as crew member at an airline: the first one, or the second?

[Qpot]

Why are there so much cabin crewmembers from JAF and FQ coming to work for Bru. Air.? Because they are very happy at JAF or FQ? I don't know...

[papabravo]

Interesting link!
What I don't understand is the all the commotion about the one weekly flight to HRG and TCP for Club Med. Probably the duty time is amongst the largest in the SN network, but why can these flights 'easily' be done with JAF and FQ and not with SN? Management of SN has even already given a fifth cabin crew member (on 168 - 3 = max 165 passengers, whereas FQ can do the flight with 180 pax and 4 CCMs).

The second proposed solution sounds even more bizar: positioning the crew with FQ one day earlier in HRG! The crew doing the outbound flight returns in positioning with the inbound flight, which would make the max capacity of the A320 only 160 pax.

Here 's the explanation

http://aclvb-cgslb.blogspot.com/2011/03 ... oblem.html

[cnc]

Why are there so much cabin crewmembers from JAF and FQ coming to work for Bru. Air.? Because they are very happy at JAF or FQ? I don't know...

more flights during winter season is one of the main reasons.
one of the big differences between JAF and SN is that JAF demands dedication from its crew

[tolipanebas]

more flights during winter season is one of the main reasons.

'more flights', like in:
less standby days
more long term roster stability
higher income,
you mean?
Makes perfect sense to me then....

JAF demands dedication from its crew

I have to give you that this sure is a very nice way to translate JAF's well known:
"shut the fuck up and just be happy with whatever we want to give you"
into far more ear pleasing managerial smart talk!

[1V1]

I fully agree with Tolipanebas. When I left Thomas Cook (and the famous Egypt triangles) for EK it was like taking permanent vacation although we fly around 80 to 90 H/month. American, British, French, Australian or any other pilot, when we talk about the Belgian FT/DT they never believe me. A Belgian pilot has to work hard for less.

[cnc]

@tolipanebas
well the way you said it just sounds awful
i bet you'd wish to have the beautyful JAF FA's as crew on all your flights

[papabravo]

Why are there so much cabin crewmembers from JAF and FQ coming to work for Bru. Air.? Because they are very happy at JAF or FQ? I don't know...

more flights during winter season is one of the main reasons.
one of the big differences between JAF and SN is that JAF demands dedication from its crew

No, not at all,

I had the opportunity to ask almost all of them and the reason they come to Bru Air are they execrable working conditions.

Almost no steady lines, haggling with FT DT, unfair point sytem, highly selfish unethical management , aso...

[tolipanebas]

I fully agree with Tolipanebas. When I left Thomas Cook (and the famous Egypt triangles) for EK it was like taking permanent vacation although we fly around 80 to 90 H/month. American, British, French, Australian or any other pilot, when we talk about the Belgian FT/DT they never believe me. A Belgian pilot has to work hard for less.

Thank you.

Indeed, our Belgian FT/DT rules are the most permissible in the entire civilized world and the main reason for that is because our Belgian CAA never really feld the need to come up with a realistic FD/DT framework for airlines, as the only big airline they had to supervise in Belgium -Sabena- had a very good CCT/CAO and thus also set the standards for the smaller ones as it gave unions there sufficient leverage by referring to Sabena, so the Belgian CAA just limited itself to a set of FT/DT rules which are ment only for occasional isolated taxi flights, NOT for continued airline operations...

Of course, after the demise of Sabena a lot of airlines swiftly took the chance to implement those unsuitable Belgian CAA FT/DT rules as their new FT/DT, thus leading to absurd situations where Belgian crews can work up to 30% longer than American crews for instance... but then what does the FAA know about aviation and crew fatigue, right?

i bet you'd wish to have the beautyful JAF FA's as crew on all your flights

Excuse me, but are we talking professional cabin crew here, or merely candidates for some Temptation Island beauty contest or something, because quite frankly, if you think there are extra points awarded for looks, I am afraid you're wrong.

I personally couldn't care less about the physical looks of my cabin crew: I rather prefer them well rested and fully able to perform all of their safety related duties at all times, after all, they're not there to please your eyes (and your fantasies), but rather to help save your life should anything go wrong.

[Darjeeling]

I don't think this place is the best to talk about labour issues.

I'll just say it's really silly and childish to compare work conditions of JAF, FQ with SN. Do you hear people of Thomas Cook UK comparing with BA ? Tuifly.de with LH ? XL France with AF ?

You enter a flagship carrier with the ambition to make a carreer within it. Not really the case at JAF, FQ with seasonal jobs systems.

[Certair32]

On a side note: I heard a rumour that some (or all?) of the Egypt triangular flights that Brussels Airlines would be flying for Club Med, will now be flown by Jetairfly because of the FT/DT problems?

Anyone heard this as well?