Korongo Airlines: THE END

[congolaise]

cnc ,

You see I don't know the rules but tell us what's the real problem of flying under Belgian licence in Congo ?

CX-B

The only problem is that DRC became independent on JUNE 30th 1960.
We are a sovereign state now, some people in the audience seem to ignore this.

[jan_olieslagers]

For political discussions, there are other forums.

[congolaise]

One should think that the government would have been more eager to get a decent airline started quickly in the country!

One can go further and understand what you say as DECENT = WHITE.
Do not be surprised of the lack of eager.

No Sir (or Madam), by decent I mean an airline which has not been blacklisted by the European Union. All the airlines of the DRC have been banned in the EU. As soon as this situation is reversed, the Korongo planes will get a Congolese registration, as it should be.

You say that all the blacklisted airlines are not DECENT.
KORONGO has been blacklisted. So KORONGO is not DECENT.
Did I get your reasoning right, or did I miss something.

[RoMax]

The only problem is that DRC became independent on JUNE 30th 1960.
We are a sovereign state now, some people in the audience seem to ignore this.

As far as I know nobody ignores the fact that the DRC is independent since +50 years. It's just that the DRC (almost every African btw) is extremely protective when talking about local companies. That makes it extremely difficult for foreign companies to build up a company in Africa. That's also why George Forrest (wich is so important for Katanga that they can't ignore them) and other local companies are investing in Korongo Airlines. SN as a Belgian company would never succeed, because the DRC would make it too difficult for them.
So for Korongo it would be better if they could registrate their aircraft in the DRC. But to avoid a bad 'image' of the airline when they are on the black list, they can't do that right now.

[RoMax]

You say that all the blacklisted airlines are not DECENT.
KORONGO has been blacklisted. So KORONGO is not DECENT.
Did I get your reasoning right, or did I miss something.

The reason why they are blacklisted is because they are registrated as a Congolese company (altough they have Belgian registrated aircraft. And a Belgian AOC?) All airlines in the DRC are blacklisted automaticly, they are not seen individual for the moment. Every airline has to prove they are safe first, and as Korongo is still not flying they can not prove that they are safe.
Don't expect that they will stay on the black list for a long time as from the moment they start operations.

PS. Sorry for the political discussion, but it is just a part of this matter.

[airazurxtror]

We are a sovereign state now,

Some sovereign state !
All your airlines are on the black list : nothing to be proud of.

[congolaise]

We are a sovereign state now,

Some sovereign state !
All your airlines are on the black list : nothing to be proud of.

I am proud of my country.

[cathay belgium]

Hi,

Congolaise ..

Where did I pass the thing that the DRC isn't a soverign state, where ??????

For me it is, there's much of work to do but hey were isn't
You can't blame me for pity events of (our) past,things our grandfathers have done..

So for political !

Concerning aviation;

Why can't Korongo fly under a belgian licence with OO-XXX reg in Congo..
because their (part) Belgian, for me we're living in a one world economy and will you ban Coca Cola also from the DRC because their American ????? , some thing other category of economy !
Besides in your opinion what must WE do with Ryanair, ban them from our european states and put them
back again alone on the Irish soil ?????????

About terms of decent..
what's a decent airliner .??

Blacklisted airliners can't fly european aerospace because europeans thinks their are reasons to think they're too dangerous to fly..
Hewa Bora's 727 ?? or Garuda's,Bouraq's (are they still alive ?? ) B737's..
I never said they're not decent but I prefer another airliner just in case...
( altough I would love to fly a Hewa's B727 )

CX-B

Note : nobody said you may not be proud of your country but please admit regarding aviation there's a lot of work to do in the DRC and some parts of Africa / Asia..

[airazurxtror]

Did I get your reasoning right, or did I miss something.

You do miss a lot - but it would be too long to explain.

[cnc]

The only problem is that DRC became independent on JUNE 30th 1960.
We are a sovereign state now, some people in the audience seem to ignore this.

why are you even on a .be forum with such attitude?
The main reason for the blacklist is that DRC's operational and safety regulations are very poor (in order to keep DRC companies in the air?). They should be upgraded to be on pair with IATA or EU regulations

to CX-B: why do you think we have AF/KL and not just AF in both france and holland? laws & politics.

[cathay belgium]

cnc,

Just tought it was for recognition to Dutch people of the brand,
don't think they will fly a French home carrier with the same feeling !!
Same reason for Bru Air and LH in a few years... ?
AHA-erlebnis : Korongo is part German instead of Belgian by then,if it would fit you better ...
Okay law and politics for so far..

CX-B

[LJ]

The main reason for the blacklist is that DRC's operational and safety regulations are very poor (in order to keep DRC companies in the air?). They should be upgraded to be on pair with IATA or EU regulations

Just a correction. It's because the EU doesn't trust the capability of the DRC aviation authorities to provide oversight. They don't say the rules are not good, it's the fact that the EU views as they're not able to uphold their own regulations, be it due to the fact they don't have enough knowledge or too much corruption (as is/was the case with Indonesia).

Blacklisted airliners can't fly european aerospace because europeans thinks their are reasons to think they're too dangerous to fly..
Hewa Bora's 727 ?? or Garuda's,Bouraq's (are they still alive ?? ) B737's..

Delete Garuda from that list, all of their aircraft are allowed in the EU. Bouraq is gone.

to CX-B: why do you think we have AF/KL and not just AF in both france and holland? laws & politics.

And tax reasons (corporate tax rates in The Netherlands are much lower than those in France).

[cnc]

thx for the correction LJ

[congolaise]

Since you people do not like politics ...
It is all a matter of commercial politics....
Under the umbrella of safety....
With an IATA logo on the KORONGO planes.....

African airlines say they are 'being progressively destroyed' by EU blacklist

African Airlines Assn. reiterated its strong criticism of the EU's "continued unilateral practice of blacklisting of mainly African states and airlines with no visible benefits in enhancing safety on the continent" and called on African governments, the African Union and the African Civil Aviation Commission to not "allow this state of affairs to continue as the continent's air transport industry is being progressively destroyed."

The statement follows the European Commission's April decision to prohibit all carriers certified in Mozambique and two Air Madagascar 767s from operating to EU airports. The EC cited "significant safety deficiencies requiring decisive action in both cases" (ATW Daily News, April 20 ). Mozambique is the 14th African state to be subject to a blanket ban; an additional four African states are subject to either a partial ban or have an individual carrier that has been restricted from operating to the EU.

In a statement, AFRAA called the EU blacklist a "public relations exercise" that acts as "a blunt instrument that constrains the development of a viable African air transport industry in Africa." It continued, "While the net losers are African carriers, the net beneficiaries are always the EU community carriers that swiftly step in to fill the vacuum and take the market share of the banned airlines. EU carriers will continue to operate with increased frequencies and higher yields to Mozambique and the other states that are the subject of the ban. If the airspace of an African country is unsafe, it is unsafe also for European carriers who continue to fly the African skies for commercial benefit."

The organization pointed out that LAM Mozambique Airlines has had no major accidents since it was established in 1980 and no accidents of any kind since 1989. It noted that a number of European airlines "can make no such claim … However, [LAM's] impeccable safety record … has not spared it from the EU blanket banning. AFRAA fails to see how such blanket banning contributes to encourage African carriers which strive to achieve industry best practices in safety standards."
LAM said it will be able to continue offering Maputo-Lisbon service despite Mozambique's addition to the EU blacklist by wet-leasing a Boeing 767-300ER from Portuguese ACMI provider euroAtlantic.


http://atwonline.com/international-avia ... estroyed-e

[Conti764]

Since you people do not like politics ...
It is all a matter of commercial politics....
Under the umbrella of safety....
With an IATA logo on the KORONGO planes.....

African airlines say they are 'being progressively destroyed' by EU blacklist

South African Airways, Ethiopean Airlines, Kenya Airlines,... They all are allowed to fly to the EU because they manage to live up to the standards of that same EU. If Congolese aviation can't get its act together, it's not our fault.

I have witnessed how Hewa Bora, the pride of Congole aviation, operated and how they treaded their (mainly black) passengers, it was a disgrace.

[RoMax]

African airlines say they are 'being progressively destroyed' by EU blacklist

Like Conti764 said, airlines wich are safe are allowed to fly to the EU. If the others are not safe, why would the EU allow them to fly to the EU? It's the safety that counts. It's not that the EU wants block the african airlines because "they don't like them" or something like that (wonder why it's not only Africa, but also Asia,...).
So maybe you should think why these African airlines doesn't improve their safety (like airlines like SAA, Ethiopian, Kenya Airways, Rwandair,... are doing). And don't say that's all about money. Or wait, yes it is about money, but not about money they are willing to invest in their airlines.
In many African countries and african companies (this is the same in some Asian/Latin American countries btw)they still have a wrong attitude. And that is not helping them to develop better/safer/profitable/... companies.

It really looks like you are blaming us for being negative about Africa (or even blaming us for what happend in the past)...

[fretn]

@ Congolaise

Don't blame the messenger for bringing the truth to you.
Yes, Korongo is a (mainly) Belgian airline and yes it's being run out of Brussels so it's rather normal for a company to make money. It's even a plus for Congo if they succeed, think about all the jobs it will create if it grows into a healthy carrier, I know for one those mechanics will not always be 'white' nor will the cabin crew etc...
Also stop putting the blame for colonialism on our shoulders, most of the people here were born after the independence and have never had anything to do with Congo/Zaïre. It's like still holding a grudge for the grandchildren of the germans who participated in the holocaust, a witchhunt...

EDIT: Isn't it normal the EU blacklists airlines as they might cause a huge disaster with lots of European casualties, it's just a form of security and to be honest, i can't disagree.

[matey11]

I'll even say more african mechanics are trained at this moment at brussels and yes there will be mechanics from belgium there but for one main reason these mechanics know the aircraft inside out bottom to top so they are there to just for there know how. And I know that also african crew is already trained in brussels.

[LJ]

African airlines say they are 'being progressively destroyed' by EU blacklist

Strange as the majority of African airlines are allowed in the EU. Moreover, the list contains more than African countries.

As for the general idea of a EU blacklist, do you know that the US and many other countries have an identical list? It's not an invention of the EU. Furthermore, I reckon Air Madagascar has only itself to blame for getting on the list as I think inspections of their aircraft have shown some irregularities (which doesn't necessarily mean there are technical issues, sometimes it's more to do with inadequate paperwork). Furthermore, reports suggest that the airports in Madagascar are unsafe to operate to.

As for Korongo, I do find it strange that they're on the list. If they have a Belgian AOC I would reckon that the Belgium is responsible for the oversight and hence shouldn't fall under the EU blacklist for DRC (the blacklist only covers airlines which have the DRC as the regulatory oversight body).

[congolaise]

why are you even on a .be forum with such attitude?

Because I am interested in aviation in DRC
If you prefer that I leave your forum you can ask your moderator
to blacklist me.

And if a different vision is an attitude, maybe question yourself on the fact
that KORONGO wants to do business in DRC.

You blaim me for talking about soverainity (in any case as same say this is because we are frustration), but I keep on reading Belgian AOC, Belgian planes, Belgian pilots( if they are found)

Excuse me for having some national pride , and just let me know when the first plane will actually take off.
Or is there still problems I am not aware of.