Emergency landing Avro Brussels Airlines 16 april

[FlyA330]

Does anyone knows more details about the emergency landing of a Brussels Airlines Avro on 16 april?
Apparently one of the engines blew up after takeoff and the aircraft returned to Brussels. The fire brigade was on standby next to the runway.
Strange that there was nothing on this forum about it.

[airazurxtror]

No answer to the above message, no comment, nothing in the newspaper either : omertà ?

[Polaris]

No answer to the above message, no comment, nothing in the newspaper either : omertà ?

What are you talking about? This morning in 'Het Nieuwsblad', one of the Flemish newspapers...

Vliegtuig maakt rechtsomkeert omwille van rokende motor


De 93 passagiers van vlucht SN 3175 naar Rome hebben bange ogenblikken meegemaakt toen zaterdag, enige tijd na het opstijgen, rook ontsnapte uit een van de vier motoren van hun toestel. De piloten maakten meteen rechtsomkeert en zetten het toestel in Zaventem probleemloos aan de grond.
'Als je aan het raampje zit en je ziet plots rook uit een motor ontsnappen, breekt het angstzweet je uit', getuigt een van de passagiers. 'Heel wat mensen aan boord waren ongerust, sommige raakten bijna in paniek en vreesden dat we zouden neerstorten. Eigenlijk ben ik blij en opgelucht dat ik u het verhaal nog kan doen'.

Vlucht SN 3175 steeg zaterdag om 7.58 uur in Zaventem op met bestemming Rome. 'De piloten kregen een poosje daarna een indicatie dat een van de vier motoren defect was', legt woordvoerder Geert Sciot van SN Brussels Airlines uit.

Probleemloze landing

'Zij sloten meteen de toevoer van lucht en brandstof naar die motor af om te voorkomen dat hij vuur zou vatten en zetten de zogenaamde Return in flight-procedure in. Dat is niet hetzelfde als een noodlanding. De piloten vragen de luchtleiding gewoon toelating om terug te keren, in dit geval om technische redenen. De landing is om 8.51 uur probleemloos uitgevoerd. Niemand raakte gewond'.

'Wij kregen te horen dat we met een latere vlucht zouden kunnen meevliegen of dat de reis zou kunnen geannuleerd worden. Dat is toch geen opvang voor mensen die zopas de angst van hun leven hebben meegemaakt? Voor ons hoefde het in elk geval niet meer. En ook andere passagiers waren te zeer onder de indruk om meteen in een ander vliegtuig te stappen', vertelt onze getuige.

Vlucht geannuleerd

De vlucht naar Rome werd inderdaad afgeschaft. 'Dat is in dergelijk geval de gewone procedure bij ons. De bemanning moet uitleg geven en een rapport opmaken van wat er allemaal gebeurd is. De passagiers die dat nog wilden, werden over andere vluchten naar Rome verdeeld', zegt Geert Sciot.

De bal ligt nu in het kamp van de technici om uit te leggen waarom de motor van het toestel, een AVRO, plots is beginnen roken. 'Op dit ogenblik kennen wij de oorzaak van het defect niet', vervolgt Geert Sciot. 'Het kan om een vogelinslag gaan bij het opstijgen, maar het kan net zo goed iets anders zijn geweest. De motor is van het vliegtuig gehaald. Hij zal gedemonteerd worden om duidelijkheid te brengen over wat zich heeft afgespeeld. Zolang blijft het vliegtuig aan de grond'.

Source:
http://www.nieuwsblad.be/article/detail ... =GGV3911MI

[tolipanebas]

Indeed, there are ample sources reporting on this event.

In a nutshell: the plane developed an engine problem on departure and the crew decided to return to base: no big deal really and definitely nothing close to a full blown emergency some think this already is...

BTW, good loadfactor on the FCO flight. We're definitly in need of another A319 there.

[diminbru]

Anyone who knows which was the Avro concerned?

[andorra-airport]

Anyone who knows which was the Avro concerned?

OO-DWB

[chrisflyer]

Dear All,

In my view, there are just too many incidents with SN Avros given the small number of aircraft they have in the fleet. The frames, although robust and well-maintained, are getting old and are very complex to operate/maintain. Do we need a serious accident before SN starts thinking about replacement?

Just my two cents' worth.

Chris

[tolipanebas]

there are just too many incidents with SN Avros

Well, that may be true, but do you have a number, like 'incident/thousand flight hours' to support this claim?

Given the small number of aircraft they have in the fleet.

25 (+2 Bae146) isn't exactly a small fleet; in fact, it is the biggest AVRO RJ fleet in the world.

The frames, although robust and well-maintained, are getting old

You know, the oldest RJ is about 15 years old now, so that's not particularly old really in fleet terms.
LH has many 737s and 747s which are much much older than that, just to name a well known company...
Not saying we couldn't do with a fleet renewal, but the RJ's can easily soldier on for another 5 to even 10 years...

Do we need a serious accident before SN starts thinking about replacement?

Do we know what caused the engine to fail in the first place?
FWIW, it could have been a birdstrike, you know, and that could just as well have hit the fan on a brandnew plane. All we do know for sure is that the plane landed safely, just as it is supposed to do, so really no big deal.

I think people better hold their horses here: All that happened was that a plane suffered an engine failure on departure. Now, that may be a spectacular event for the tourists on board, but it really is not such a big deal really and it happens to all airlines and to all planes. Boeing even had it happen once on a demonstration flight of their brandnew 77W to South African Airways at Johannesburg, with the CEO and the press on board! As said: those things do happen: 100% fail proof does not exist.

[RCMike]

In a nutshell: the plane developed an engine problem on departure and the crew decided to return to base: no big deal really and definitely nothing close to a full blown emergency some think this already is...

BTW, good loadfactor on the FCO flight. We're definitly in need of another A319 there.

I totally agree... and oh man, planes are all awefully stuffed with passengers these days )

Mike

[sn26567]

BTW, good loadfactor on the FCO flight. We're definitly in need of another A319 there.

Most flights to FCO are already operated by B737s!

[chrisflyer]

Dear All,

I am not casting blame. But let's compare the incidents involving any of the 25 SN Avros during the last 12 months...

Brussels RJ85 near Milan on Mar 28th 2011, smoke on board
Brussels RJ1H at Brussels on Jan 16th 2011, could not retract gear
Brussels Airlines RJ1H at Geneva on Nov 23rd 2010, flaps up landing
Brussels Airlines RJ1H at Budapest on Nov 22nd 2010, flaps failure
Brussels Airlines RJ1H at Vilnius on Nov 21st 2010, flaps problem
Brussels Airlines RJ1H at Brussels on Nov 19th 2010, flaps problem
Brussels Airlines RJ1H at Bologna on Nov 18th 2010, flaps problem
Brussels Airlines RJ1H at Gothenburg on Nov 16th 2010, flaps problem
Brussels Airlines RJ1H at Vienna on Nov 3rd 2010, flaps problem
Brussels Airlines RJ85 near Basel on Aug 2nd 2010, cabin pressurization problems
Brussels Airlines RJ1H at Brussels on Mar 4th 2010, smoke and fuel leak

... with the incidents involving any of the 63 (!) old-generation 737s in the Lufthansa fleet:

Lufthansa B733 at Hamburg on Apr 7th 2011, dropped wheel on landing

... or with the incidents involving any of the 19 old-generation 737s in the BA fleet:

British Airways B734 near Luxembourg on Jun 18th 2010, smoke in cockpit

It is more than human to keep ignoring problems, but it seems to me that neither SN management nor the public opinion is taking this seriously. Some of these aircraft may be only 15 years old, but their technology is ancient.

Chris

[tolipanebas]

I take it your source is the public domain?

If you really think only 1 incident happened on the entire 737 fleet of LH or BA for over the last 12 months, you're dead wrong, I can assure you, for the simple reason all operators in the EU participate in a collective reporting and data sharing program for all their in flight events so as to increase awareness and knowledge and ultimately also reliability in the global aviation community and I can tell you for a fact BA and LH for instance have quite a lot more events than you seem to think here. Just because it hasn't been reported on a public forum or made it in the press, doesn't mean it hasn't happened...

Reality is the rate of return in flight for the RJ fleet of SN is not spectacularly higher at all when compared to other types and/or other fleets of other airlines, but since this is a Belgian aviation site, events with Belgian planes get highlighted, especially if they happen at BRU; but to assume others don't have similar events, is a bridge too far, with all respect.

[shockcooling]

Dear All,

I am not casting blame. But let's compare the incidents involving any of the 25 SN Avros during the last 12 months...

Brussels RJ85 near Milan on Mar 28th 2011, smoke on board
Brussels RJ1H at Brussels on Jan 16th 2011, could not retract gear
Brussels Airlines RJ1H at Geneva on Nov 23rd 2010, flaps up landing
Brussels Airlines RJ1H at Budapest on Nov 22nd 2010, flaps failure
Brussels Airlines RJ1H at Vilnius on Nov 21st 2010, flaps problem
Brussels Airlines RJ1H at Brussels on Nov 19th 2010, flaps problem
Brussels Airlines RJ1H at Bologna on Nov 18th 2010, flaps problem
Brussels Airlines RJ1H at Gothenburg on Nov 16th 2010, flaps problem
Brussels Airlines RJ1H at Vienna on Nov 3rd 2010, flaps problem
Brussels Airlines RJ85 near Basel on Aug 2nd 2010, cabin pressurization problems
Brussels Airlines RJ1H at Brussels on Mar 4th 2010, smoke and fuel leak

... with the incidents involving any of the 63 (!) old-generation 737s in the Lufthansa fleet:

Lufthansa B733 at Hamburg on Apr 7th 2011, dropped wheel on landing

... or with the incidents involving any of the 19 old-generation 737s in the BA fleet:

British Airways B734 near Luxembourg on Jun 18th 2010, smoke in cockpit

It is more than human to keep ignoring problems, but it seems to me that neither SN management nor the public opinion is taking this seriously. Some of these aircraft may be only 15 years old, but their technology is ancient.

Chris

dude, you're research doesn't show all examples for incidents involving LH 737's in the past 12 months. Why comparing 2 things if you even don't give the good examples to compare!

Lufthansa B733 at Hamburg on Apr 7th 2011, dropped wheel on landing
Lufthansa B735 near Hamburg on Jan 12th 2011, could not retract gear
Lufthansa B735 near Leipzig on Oct 19th 2010, cabin pressure problems injure 5
Lufthansa B735 near Hamburg on Sep 23rd 2010, engine shut down in flight
Lufthansa B733 at Hamburg on Apr 14th 2010, bird strike

BTW; the article is still talking about SN Brussels Airlines, even with input of mr. Sciot

[Tompompier]

The fire brigade was on standby next to the runway.

I was a member of the fire brigade crew on that particular emergency landing. I'm forbidden to tell something about what happened or what was wrong (for the dutch speaking : beroepsgeheim).

Indeed, fire brigade was stand by beside the runway (and indeed, it's very spectacular to see 4 crash tenders waiting for a plane to land, and then racing on the runway, and another 10 fire vehicles waiting at the fire station...) which is the normal procedure in those cases. If we wouldn't have been stand by, I think there should be a lot of comments about it too....

In aviation we always say : better safe than sorry and safety comes above all... and hey, that's what we're there for...

Tompompier

[andorra-airport]

avherald.com:

A Brussels Airlines Avro RJ-100, registration OO-DWB performing flight SN-3175 from Brussels (Belgium) to Rome Fiumicino (Italy) with 93 passengers, was in the initial climb when the crew shut the #1 engine (LF507) down following abnormal engine indications. The crew levelled off at 4000 feet and returned to Brussels for a safe landing on runway 25L about 50 minutes after departure.

The flight was cancelled.

[chrisflyer]

L

ufthansa B733 at Hamburg on Apr 7th 2011, dropped wheel on landing
Lufthansa B735 near Hamburg on Jan 12th 2011, could not retract gear
Lufthansa B735 near Leipzig on Oct 19th 2010, cabin pressure problems injure 5
Lufthansa B735 near Hamburg on Sep 23rd 2010, engine shut down in flight
Lufthansa B733 at Hamburg on Apr 14th 2010, bird strike

Apologies, I stand corrected on the LH 737s.

Nevertheless, on a fleet of 65 aircraft, you have less than half of the incidents. I know there is a tendency to be phlegmatic here, but it seems to me there is a structural problem with the Avros at SN. As far as I know, there has not been a single incident in the 15-strong Avro fleet at LH Cityline during the same period. You can't tell me everything's hunky dory.

Again, I am not trying to cast blame - just trying to raise awareness of the fact that there seems to be something wrong.

C.

[FlightMate]

Maybe it has more to do with SN's maintenance, than with the avro itself.
It might be worth looking at the number of incidents with LH's avros.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not blaming SN's engineers, but more the lack of engineers. I know they are under great pressure to have the job done with a serious lack of man-power. Not surprising, seeing the ridiculous wage they are paid.

[sn26567]

Finally a report in the French-dpeaking media, with the testimony of one of the passengers:
http://www.rtl.be/info/vous/temoignage/ ... ruxelles-/

[airazurxtror]

I will translate part of the above mentioned testimony - the part after the landing :

However, our user cannot hide his anger against the airline: " I am furious against Brussels Airlines and I think it's the opinion of the majority of passengers on board. Once bussed to the terminal, we were left to ourselves without help, without any information. No one to reassure us, talk to us, guide us through the maze of the airport, to propose alternatives to possibly extend our flight, check that nobody needs a psychological support .
We had to make the queue for hours at the counter "Ticketing & Sales" where only a few hostesses were responsible for providing us the necessary certificates in order to be reimbursed for the flight or for the most courageous and those unable not do otherwise, find another flight to Rome. Nothing had been planned to provide another plane . " Shocked by these events, Dominique and other passengers, finally took the decision not to go.

And they speak of Ryanair ....

[tolipanebas]

So to summarize:

Their plane returned to BRU for a technical reason and landed there normally, after which pax were deboarded into the airport and were sent to the pax service centers of SN to be given the option to either rebook to a later flight that same day, reschedule their trip to a later date or get a full refund of their ticket. Oh, and given the fact we're having Easter Holidays right now, it was fairly bussy at the airport, so they had to queue... WOW, what an endeavour to experience!

Excuse me, but this all seems like a perfectly normal way from a network carrier to deal with pax which have just seen their travel ittinary been disrupted and are in need of a ticket agent's assistance to resume their trip on the STAR alliance network asap... FWIW, it's exactly what happens on a daily basis at all hub airports around the world, to all those pax which have just missed their connection for one reason or another, you know...

What did they expect?
A buch of doctors and psychologists waiting for them upon arrival?
A moral support team to take care of the shock of not arriving at their planned destination on time?
A hospital visit to recover from ... euh... what actually, they didn't suffer any personal injury?
Heck, the RJ is certified to be ferried out on 3 engines even, so this is proof a one engine out flight is really not such a big deal.

Now, I can understand experiencing an engine failure may already be very stressful to some pax, but to me it seems everything was dealt with in a perfectly normal way by both crew as well as airline, with minimal disruptions and at no extra personal costs, just as you can expect from a full service airline, yet some pax were angry nevertheless mainly because something had previously scared them beyond comfort and were thus a bit all too willing to attack whoever they deemed responsible for their irrational scare.