Full take-over of Brussels Airlines by Lufthansa ?

[airazurxtror]

The other shareholders want to get rid of their shares of a company on which they have no control, I guess.

[theeuropean]

Indeed i heared they would wait one year this would be terrible ....

where did you hear this - if I may ask...

I think in all honesty we will find out around the time Lufthansa is supposed to buy Brussels Airlines. Lets see what will come out of that. Anyways I hope some info about new widebody/narrowbody aircraft and new routes.

[Boeing767copilot]

Lufthansa Group has no plans to buy or invest in additional airlines, Chairman and CEO Christoph Franz told LH's in-house employee magazine Lufthanseat.

source: ATW http://atwonline.com/news/other-headlines/

[Bralo20]

Lufthansa Group has no plans to buy or invest in additional airlines, Chairman and CEO Christoph Franz told LH's in-house employee magazine Lufthanseat.

source: ATW http://atwonline.com/news/other-headlines/

The Lufthansa group has no plan to buy or invest in ADDITIONAL airlines, this doesn't include the airlines which they allready (partially) own... It means that they won't buy VS or SK for instance...

[Bralo20]

Brussels Airlines is a LOUSY name. It sounds (very) cheap, small and local. It doesn't appeal to people - at all.

Also, the name isn't widely known. People still talk about Sabena when they mean "Brussels Airlines". I have some friends in Spain, France and Scandinavia and no one has ever heard of Brussels Airlines... No one!

So if LH takes full control over SN, they should definately consider to change the name back to SABENA. A brand known all over the world (in Africa it was even a synonym for 'airplane')! From a marketing point of view it would be very profitable.



So please Lufthansa, bring back the Sabena name

I have to agree... Brussels Airlines as a brand just "sucks", it was like "oh, we still need a name, hmm let me think, it's based in Brussels, we can call it Brussels Airlines"... Completely lack of spirit...

SABENA was and is a brand that is still widely recognized, even 10 years after bankruptcy... While we Belgians may think of SABENA as a government funded airline where friends of politicians got a decent job and where money was burned at a rate that was to fast to follow it had a certain aura... SABENA was (and still is) known as one of the best airlines in the world, maybe not completely through service but also because of their safety records, their pilots who where top of the class, their experience to operate in certain fields (like AFI ops), yes even their service had once a great reputation... SABENA was Belgian's pride, it was the flagcarrier of a tiny country but with a strong reputation (at least it was before the Swissair take over). Everybody arround the world knew SABENA, now 10 years later a lot of people still remember SABENA (in a good way)... 2 weeks ago I flew to LAS with UA and spoke with several people about aviation... When I noticed that my flight was codeshared by SN (only saw it when I was flying from IAD to BRU but after I checked every section was codeshared) I thought to ask if many people booked their ticket through SN... The gate agent which I talked to didn't have a clue what I was talking about when I asked if a lot of people flew with a Brussels Airlines ticket (she was like a lot of UA's crews mid 40's to early 50's)... First Response: Brussels Airlines, hmm which airline is that again? Me: You know, the successor of SABENA, Brussels Airlines, the flight is codeshared with them... She: Oh, SABENA, if you told me that I would I known what you meant, Is it called Brussels Airlines now? Me: yup, that's our national carrier now... She: Oh, well we have quite some SABENA tickets on this flight yes... Then she started to tell me that she loved SABENA very much, that she flew quite a few times with SN to Europe "back in the days" and that it was a nice but rather small airline... That she liked Belgium, that Ghent was nice to visit, etc... That she had been recently to Brussels but that she couldn't remember seeing Brussels Airlines... Then we started talking about the UACO merger...

10 years after SABENA went bankrupt, about a year and some months after SN started codesharing with UA, they (=UA staff (ok maybe a single one for what I know but still) are refering to Brussels Airlines as SABENA... That's this month, March 2011... Not March 2002, 2003, 2004... but this month...

I'm convinced that the SABENA brand is still much stronger today then Brussels Airlines ever will be...

I did some digging and apparently the SABENA brand is currently owned by SN Airholding. (I thought that the SABENA brand was still part of the bankruptcy but apparently SN Airholding bought the name back in 2001). So if LH sees that SABENA is a strong brand and they see future in it they can rebrand the airline back to SABENA again... But I doubt this is going to happen soon... But you never know... When (and I say when) LH buys SN for 100% they will also be owner of the SABENA brand...

[Boavida]

They would be stupid if they don't change the name back to Sabena, certainly if they own the brand.

Who would drop a worldwide brand, for a new unknown name!? It's like Coca-Cola would change its name in 'Atlanta Cola'...

[sn26567]

When (and I say when) LH buys SN for 100% they will also be owner of the SABENA brand...

Unfortunately not. The Sabena brand belongs to the curator of the bankruptcy. He might sell it to Lufthansa, but at a cost!

[Boavida]

When (and I say when) LH buys SN for 100% they will also be owner of the SABENA brand...

Unfortunately not. The Sabena brand belongs to the curator of the bankruptcy. He might sell it to Lufthansa, but at a cost!

It would still be a very good investment I think. Having a well-known (global) brand is priceless in aviation today.

[LJ]

Do they really need to take over 100%?
I mean, they already control the airline, with only 45% of the shares. Nobody takes decisions without first consulting with LH.

SN is not under the control of LH untill they have more than 50% of the voring rights (which they currently don't have). Furthermore, if LH really wants to invest in SN they need the 100% as if not the benefits will also go to the other shareholders.

It would still be a very good investment I think. Having a well-known (global) brand is priceless in aviation today.

Omit the word "global" as Sabena is only a brand in Africa and Belgium. Outside these markets many have negative associations with the brand Sabena.

[Bralo20]

Unfortunately not. The Sabena brand belongs to the curator of the bankruptcy. He might sell it to Lufthansa, but at a cost!

That was what I thought too but recently I found records that SN Airholding bought the brand back in 2001 after SABENA went bankrupt...

Strange...

[Bralo20]

Omit the word "global" as Sabena is only a brand in Africa and Belgium. Outside these markets many have negative associations with the brand Sabena.

Hmm I would state otherwise... During my last and previous holidays (in tbe USA/Canada) I spoke quite some people about aviation and since I am always interested in what people think about Belgian aviation and nearly no one knows Brussels Airlines... The only airline they remember is SABENA and in general they think it was a good airline and it was sad it went bankrupt...

The most negative people about SABENA are here in our own country... In Belgium...

But that is what I noticed when I asked about it... So others may find other opinions

[sn26567]

The only airline they remember is SABENA and in general they think it was a good airline and it was sad it went bankrupt...

I tend to agree. In my last trip with Sabena to Washington DC shortly before the bankruptcy, I spoke to several Americans on board, who said they preferred Sabena to United, because of better service and better meals and drinks. And on many other flights I heard similar comments through the years.

AT one time, Sabena had a bad reputation, but in the last years of its existence its fame had considerably improved. If Swissair had not extorted the last cent out of Sabena's finances it would now have been a thriving company.

[Conti764]

If Swissair had not extorted the last cent out of Sabena's finances it would now have been a thriving company.

Not without a change of mind of some staff members, that is. And not without the board making some sacrifices, e.g. non-lucrative glamour destinations.

[fcw]

Rumour has it LH discovered some window dressing in the BruAir anual results. They are not amused and will probably not excercise their option this year.

[Vinnie-Winnie]

I tend to agree. In my last trip with Sabena to Washington DC shortly before the bankruptcy, I spoke to several Americans on board, who said they preferred Sabena to United, because of better service and better meals and drinks. And on many other flights I heard similar comments through the years.

Well that's not difficult. 10 years later and United still remains a sub-par airline like any other US airline. I have become a regular Washington DC - Brussels traveller now and I can tell you that 10 years ago, when I first flew to DC with Sabena, it was a much better experience that today...

AT one time, Sabena had a bad reputation, but in the last years of its existence its fame had considerably improved. If Swissair had not extorted the last cent out of Sabena's finances it would now have been a thriving company.

Never unless they restructured and concentrated on the markets that work. That would not have been possible (trade unions, politics...) so the company would have gone bankrupt anyway. SN was also still until the very end concentrating on the low yielding connecting market, something that didn't work (KLM after all was after the same market and got bought out by Air France for the very same reason)

Look at the european market: All the small country home markets have either disappeared, shrunk or are struggling big time: TAP, SAS are 2 examples that come to mind. Why would Sabena have been any different?

[FlightMate]

That was what I thought too but recently I found records that SN Airholding bought the brand back in 2001 after SABENA went bankrupt...

Strange...

They bought it so nobody else can start a SABENA airline competing with Brussels Airlines.

As for the necessity to buy 100% of the shares. Sure if you think the Airline will be so profitable as to have a return on investment. But look at other private airlines, with shares in the stock-exchange. One shareholder has a big pourcentage and takes all the decisions. The rest goes to a lot of small shareholders.
Here I know for a fact, that nobody takes a decision without first having received the approval of LH.

[airazurxtror]

According to "Le Soir" this morning (page 22), Lufthansa has an option to buy the remaining 55% of Brussels Airlines during the month of april every year from 2011 to 2014.
It is not said if, in the meantime, the owners of those 55% are free to try and sell them to another party.

[tolipanebas]

It is not said if, in the meantime, the owners of those 55% are free to try and sell them to another party.

No, LH has the right to buy first, should they do that....

[shogan1977]

The big problem for me - as someone who flies to US a lot - is the issue fact that while Lufthansa owns all these airlines (Swiss, Austrian etc) without the LH code, UA/Star Alliance members with status do not get benifit of status miles when they fly. As a UA frequent flyer member you only collect status bonus miles (i.e. 125% silver; 150% gold) if you fly UA or Lufthansa. But if you fly a LH owned airline you don't.

For this reason alone I would love to see LH only code flights from Brussels

[Bralo20]

The big problem for me - as someone who flies to US a lot - is the issue fact that while Lufthansa owns all these airlines (Swiss, Austrian etc) without the LH code, UA/Star Alliance members with status do not get benifit of status miles when they fly. As a UA frequent flyer member you only collect status bonus miles (i.e. 125% silver; 150% gold) if you fly UA or Lufthansa. But if you fly a LH owned airline you don't.

For this reason alone I would love to see LH only code flights from Brussels

Not completely true...

UA MP on Austrian:

Business C D J Z1 125% 100%
Economy Y B M H Q G V W S 100% 100%
No Mileage Credit E K T L X I P N R O U 0% 0%

Swiss:

First F A 150% 100%
Business C D J 125% 100%
Discount Business Z 100% 100%
Economy Y B G H K L M
Q S T U V W 100% 100%
No Mileage Credit E X I O P R 0% 0%

Brussels Airlines:

Business C D J Z 125% 100%
Full Economy Y B M H K Q V 100% 100%
Discount Economy W U S L E T 50% 50%
No Mileage Credit X I O P R N G 0% 0%

BMI:

Business C D J A P 125% 100%
Economy U L Y S O B K M
H Q V W G T N E 100% 100%
No Mileage Credit X I Z R 0% 0%