New destinations for Brussels Airlines?

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Atlantis
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New destinations for Brussels Airlines?

Post by Atlantis »

shockcooling wrote:hello guys,

*rumours*

End of this week the board might decide over extra routes (AMS, LCY,..). If not, the 4 Airbus will replace 4 Avro's.

enjoy the weekend
About AMS it's not exactly a rumour as they asked every year daily slots at AMS. However they always removed them before the deadline.
A couple of years it was defendable but with the new Diabolo link mid 2012, I don't know. But if you don't try it, you will not know.
10 years ago, Sabena was flying this route with a Dash 8 aircraft (Schreiner Airways)

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tolipanebas
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Re: Replacement of SN's Avro RJ and B737 fleet

Post by tolipanebas »

GLA, please.. GLA

Flogger
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Re: Replacement of SN's Avro RJ and B737 fleet

Post by Flogger »

Seriously, GLA? Even Ryanair pulled the route from CRL to Prestwick several seasons ago.
Tell the world what the business case is for a daily RJ85 flight to GLA, I'm curious.

I have no info but my guess is that some RJ85's will be kept to rotate as spare aircraft and as capacity boosters to operate some charters in the summer, if the price of the lease extension is right.
That's the advantage of cheap leases: they may cost more to operate but they're cheaper to park.

LCY is a "must do" route, LUX a "must try" route, RTM/AMS could make sense as a route opener that could later on be taken over by Thalys.
RTM's catchment area is vaster than Brussels' and it houses the largest seaport of Europe with strong business presence. Driving or taking a train to AMS takes longer than to fly to BRU and RTM is conveniently located just at the outskirts of the port. If SN can offer competitive fares and a good schedule connecting through BRU, they have a business case. They can fight Transavia by offering better schedules and the possibility for pax to connect to a vaster network than Transavia offers from RTM.
AMS would be good to serve the purpose of long-haul codeshares who don't fly to AMS and to catch some African pax who would otherwise connect through CDG.

regi
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Re: Replacement of SN's Avro RJ and B737 fleet

Post by regi »

Flogger wrote: RTM/AMS could make sense as a route opener that could later on be taken over by Thalys.
RTM's catchment area is vaster than Brussels' and it houses the largest seaport of Europe with strong business presence. Driving or taking a train to AMS takes longer than to fly to BRU and RTM is conveniently located just at the outskirts of the port. If SN can offer competitive fares and a good schedule connecting through BRU, they have a business case. They can fight Transavia by offering better schedules and the possibility for pax to connect to a vaster network than Transavia offers from RTM.
AMS would be good to serve the purpose of long-haul codeshares who don't fly to AMS and to catch some African pax who would otherwise connect through CDG.
I don't want to jump on your neck, but is Transavia not active in a rather different market than SN ?
Second remark: flying from Brussels to Rotterdam instead of driving?
I live in Bruges and I am by car at my appointment in Rotterdam in 2.5 hours ( OK, if the Van Brienoordbridge is't blocked) and at Amsterdam in +- 3 hours. Comparison: It takes me 1.15 H to get from my home into the parking lot of BRU. Check inn at least 1 hour before departure. 50 minutes flight, resulting in exactly the same travelling time. But than I am still at an airport, maybe 20 to 40 km from my destination. It costs me 477 € by KLM Cityhopper, 55 € by car according Viamichelin.
But you have a point to fight against KLM/AF on African routes by copying their Cityhopper service to AMS. And offer it as well to Qatar, Jet Airways and Etihad just as the City Hopper service helps to sell tickets with China Airlines and EVA from AMS.( but recently those tickets are more sold with a train ticket, depending a bit on the ticket agency, no more up to date information and update is welcome )

Flogger
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Re: Replacement of SN's Avro RJ and B737 fleet

Post by Flogger »

I live in Bruges and I am by car at my appointment in Rotterdam in 2.5 hours ( OK, if the Van Brienoordbridge is't blocked) and at Amsterdam in +- 3 hours. Comparison: It takes me 1.15 H to get from my home into the parking lot of BRU. Check inn at least 1 hour before departure. 50 minutes flight, resulting in exactly the same travelling time. But than I am still at an airport, maybe 20 to 40 km from my destination. It costs me 477 € by KLM Cityhopper, 55 € by car according Viamichelin.
You sure are right if your final destination is RTM.

Let's say that you have the likely scenario that you are a random person generating in Rotterdam or The Hague and you need to get to Milan city to do a deal for your company or to see family.
Imagine that SN operates RTM-BRU.
Your flight options:
-Transavia, RTM-MXP but they fly 4 weekly and not on the days/times you need to fly. Also MXP-Milan city center is 1 hour driving.
-KLM, drive 45 minutes to AMS, then do all the airport stuff, fly AMS-LIN (very expensive).
-SN, do all the airport stuff at RTM, fly 20 minutes RTM-BRU, wait 1 hour, connect to BRU-LIN. 60 euro cheaper and more convenient/

Which one would you choose?

So if SN can offer better schedule and price, there is a big chance that a pax could decide to choose SN over KL at AMS. That is also the idea behind Lille.
It's not the driving distance or time that matters, but how convenient it is for a passenger to go from one place to another and what the price is.

If it isn't clear yet, perhaps the following will clarify it all:

How do people get to an airport, from most preferred option to least preferred option
1. ask family or friends to drive, but it's often a problem because of their own commitments and schedules or because none available at all
2. public transportation
3. taxi
4. drive on their own, then pay expensive parking for many days or week.

People will prefer to take any of the first 3 options in the order listed.
No matter what you do, the more the airport is far from home, the more all options demand more time, cost and inconvenience. However, when an airport is closer from home, the reverse is true: getting to the airport becomes easier. You must not forget that flights can start or end at very different phases of a day and family, friends and bus or trains are not available 24 hours a day. There is also the uncertainty of delays and flight cancellations.

If living in Rotterdam or The Hague, the easiest and cheapest option would always be to take a bus or taxi to nearby airport RTM and to enter into the airline's network.

Many airlines forget this aspect of air travel.
Passengers want to enter and exit the airline's network web as close as possible from their personal departure and destination points. The closer the entry point to the web, the lower the risks, the cost, the hassle and time lost getting to/from the airport. That is as important as the number of times they need to connect between departure and arrival points.

If SN can match the inconvenience of the connection at BRU by offering customers the convenience of getting into its network closer from their homes or offices than airlines operating from airports further away (AMS in case RTM, CDG in case of LIL, LHR in case of LCY), then all that's left to compare is price and schedule.

flyfred007
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Brussels Airlines Has to open à daily flight to Zaragoza .

Post by flyfred007 »

If they open à route , they Will have à lot of pax because there is à big Demand

AVION1
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Re: New destinations for Brussels Airlines?

Post by AVION1 »

Atlantis wrote:
shockcooling wrote:hello guys,

*rumours*

End of this week the board might decide over extra routes (AMS, LCY,..). If not, the 4 Airbus will replace 4 Avro's.

enjoy the weekend
About AMS it's not exactly a rumour as they asked every year daily slots at AMS. However they always removed them before the deadline.
A couple of years it was defendable but with the new Diabolo link mid 2012, I don't know. But if you don't try it, you will not know.
10 years ago, Sabena was flying this route with a Dash 8 aircraft (Schreiner Airways)

They said a few months before, that they were looking at NTE or BOD...

Jetairfly
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Re: New destinations for Brussels Airlines?

Post by Jetairfly »

What destinations are currently on the board? Does anybody already know SN's decision?

I am very eager the know the result as it might be a great step forwards for our national carrier ;)...

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fretn
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Re: New destinations for Brussels Airlines?

Post by fretn »

New York (JFK or EWR), furthermore SFO has also been mentioned.

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tolipanebas
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Re: New destinations for Brussels Airlines?

Post by tolipanebas »

NY, yes, but surely not on an RJ?

New York is said to be a given as soon as we have obtained antitrust immunity from the US DoT to be able to make it a real transatlantic joint venture with the 'new' United (including full cost and revenue sharing), so don't count on it before spring 2012.

DeltaWiskey
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Re: New destinations for Brussels Airlines?

Post by DeltaWiskey »

NY and SFO have been mentioned as possible future destinations by a SN representative, some months ago. However no official announcement...
Spring 2012 is very optimistic imo. :)

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euroflyer
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Re: New destinations for Brussels Airlines?

Post by euroflyer »

well, as far as I understood the questions now is if the RJ85s which become available as spare capacity will be used on new routes or if they are returned. So I imagine NY, SFO and so on are rather unrealistic ;) :oops:

However, without having any inside information, I would expect routes like LCY, AMS, RTM, some secondary French towns and so on to have a good potential. Do not know if the RJ85 is the best aircraft for those very short routes, but if they are available at a good price, why not try it. The development of SN into a full-service network carrier and the entry into *alliance will bring (step by step) more *alliance longhaul flights and pax to BRU. The more connection you can offer to them, the better it is. Maybe it makes not much sense for somebody from Bruges to fly to RTM or AMS, but for somebody coming from the US, CAN, Africa or Asia there is no difference if the change their plane in CDG, BRU, ZRH, CPH, LHR etcetera if they want to go to AMS for example and no direct flight is available. A train connection is never used a lot with long-haul pax for connections. Those people from other continents do not know how trains operate in Europe (and vice-versa!), if their luggage will be transported to the final destinations and so on. They will always prefer a flight connection, because they know exactly what they get ...
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A300 A318 A319 A320 A321 A340 B737 B747 B757 B767 MD81 MD82 MD90 Tu134 IL18 BAe146 RJ85 RJ100 CRJ200 CRJ700 CRJ900 ERJ145 E170 E195 F50 F70 F100 ATR42 ATR72 Q300 Q400
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Stij
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Re: New destinations for Brussels Airlines?

Post by Stij »

If I may share a few ideas:

If I read Godefroid's book well, Sabena's hub and spoke system really started well when the old 732 were kept in the fleet in stead of retiring them. OK, times have changed, but it was a really smart move in those days, so why not?

Opening new business desinations is fine, but offering more frequency is very business oriented as well! In stead of flying twice daily on RJ100, try 3 times daily on RJ85. A nice (personal) example: VCE!!! My bl**dy evening flight!!!

Another idea, a bit more exotic: maybe SN could operate some RJ85 flights on behalf of LH, and as a compensation, LH could operate some CRJ for SN, then the risk is smaller when starting a new route. A quick calculation: 4 RJ85 x 85 seats/RJ85 = 340seats, 340 seats / 50 seats/CRJ = 7 CRJ. If it's a success, make the transfer definitive and introduce 50 seats jets in SN's fleet. If no succes, return the aircraft, no definitive purchase were made or crews trained for nothing. And if it's an exchange the unions could accept, I think.

Cheers mates,

Stij

BrusselsAirlines
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Re: New destinations for Brussels Airlines?

Post by BrusselsAirlines »

Any news from the Board yet?

airbuske
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Re: New destinations for Brussels Airlines?

Post by airbuske »

removed!
Last edited by airbuske on 25 Feb 2011, 20:11, edited 1 time in total.
Best regards,

Airbuske

becareful
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Re: New destinations for Brussels Airlines?

Post by becareful »

airbuske wrote:We received the final schedule for this summer where we could read that
6 Airbus planes ( Airbus 319 and 320 ) will replace 6 AvroRJs.
So I don't think that we will see new destinations soon. :(
Again a missed opportunity!

This info is not correct. Brussels Airlines is not going to replace 6 RJ's. Just one example... On top you are sharing here company confidential information ...

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cathay belgium
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Re: New destinations for Brussels Airlines?

Post by cathay belgium »

becareful wrote: On top you are sharing here company confidential information ...
:x oh.. here we go again..

BTW on forums we use avatars, this means that everybody could say what he/she wants to share
with others ... AND we don't now what he/she says is correct..or what he / she says what jobs they have..
so stop bullsh**ng over confidential.. if you want to start a topic about business ethics.. please do.. :mrgreen:

CX-B ;)

Note : see also terrorism and reg-request :roll:
New types flown 2024 : DO228, A338 , PC6

airbuske
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Re: New destinations for Brussels Airlines?

Post by airbuske »

Sorry wil not post again
Best regards,

Airbuske

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cathay belgium
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Re: New destinations for Brussels Airlines?

Post by cathay belgium »

OMG,censored topics again on luchtzak !
No we all know that SN people can't read-analyse their own reports and others inside people
confirmed this ..ha !
Better hide under an avatar, I guess..
Moderator,please censor all these posts ... (and start the new topic because these
interventions .. )
Besides quite interesting to see that the confidential post is now visible thx to !becareful-s reply ..good job haha
CX-B
New types flown 2024 : DO228, A338 , PC6

HighInTheSky
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Re: New destinations for Brussels Airlines?

Post by HighInTheSky »

Hold your horses everybody and just wait a few more days.

And indeed airbuske, this time your info is not 100% correct...

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