BeOnTop Airlines - Liège Airport

[an-148]

@ cnc : the long haul could eventually be another already existing foreign company wanting to extend its network, but not wishing to go to FRA, LHR, AMS or CDG (price, slots, concurrence with the established airlines like LH, BA, AF ....) ............... and than we are back to the theory I developped one month ago !

[Flogger]

Not quite as impossible as you suggest, cnc, IMO.
Most airlines haven't been built in one day and funding can be found if the idea is right.

A B777-300's hold has the ability to take 44 LD3's + 15m³ of bulk in terms of volume. 60% of that would already be filled by pax luggage, so if you put the luggage in the aft hold using the 20 LD3 positions and the bulk, at best the 24 fwd LD3 hold positions remain available.
That's equivalent to 8 PMC pallets or a B733F main deck volume. In other terms, on a twice or 3x weekly basis to a destination, peanuts but still very interesting for TNT and a significant revenue stream for the airline operating the B773's.

LGG has significant space available for such an operation.
Given that your feeding capacity is 20 ATR 72's, the long-haul operation should be conveniently split into 2 waves or even 3, for example conveniently one West bound (America's) and one East (Asia) /South (Africa) bound. This means that any given time, there shouldn't be more than 3 B777-300's parked in Bierset.
The TNT ramp just next to the big TNT stores looks like an airplane graveyard at times, with many parked BAe's. If the ATR 72's can take over a large part of the BAe operations, this ramp space can be used to park 18 ATR's, with some minor re-drawing of the parking boxes.

[fretn]

You're kidding right?

admin, are double accounts allowed on luchtzak, could you please check the ip-adress by NCB & Flogger, i'm 99% certain that they are one and the same.

[cnc]

btw is the pax terminal at LGG big enough for such operations? 2 1 class 77W's = 1000 pax
i would like to see it in action but not as a shareholder

[tolipanebas]

Like Tolipanebas, who thinks that anti-ice has to be diluted before putting them on the trucks and that type II is the most used anti-ice fluid

I would have thought you'd have used the time away usefully, but nope, seems you still haven't grasped how times have changed and how today de-icing fluids are mostly diluted and type IV is hardly ever used, despite what you may have found in your outdated sources...

Come and spend some time in real airline operations, and a completely new world will unfold right in front of your eyes!

-For long-haul, lease 6 B777-300 (ER or non-ER if cheaper), operate charters to destinations in South America, Asia, Africa and maybe even Alaska/Canada in high density 1-class/9-abreast/500 pax configuration. The flights should be 2 or 3 weekly so that 6 B773's should be able to operate to 18 key destinations.
The cargo hold should, besides the pax luggage, be stuffed with freight in partnership with TNT. Cargo volume of the B777-300 is huge, which explains my choice of aircraft.

Replace those 777s with A333s and refocus the routes on AFI alone, and you basically have something like SN's longhaul, in case you didn't notice it. Heck, even the number of destinations you've mentioned is the same!

But didn't you pretend SN uses the absolute worst concept for its long haul, because cargo is completely irrelevant and should not be used as a key revenue source?

What's it going to be, NCB?

[sn26567]

admin, are double accounts allowed on luchtzak, could you please check the ip-adress by NCB & Flogger, i'm 99% certain that they are one and the same.

Double accounts are not allowed, indeed. Since NCB is no longer a member of Luchtzak, his IP has disappeared from our records; hence there is no way to check whether Flogger is the same person. Nothing can prevent former member NCB to re-register under another name if he wishes. But again, we have no way to check, and it is not our role as long as there is no double registration.

[Novastar]

Here's a name: Scizo Airlines

Been reading this topic since the start and i have to admit it is entertaining. You can easily fool a phpbb forum with a double reg, you just have to change your IP everytime you post as your other self

cheers

[regi]

Forget about Regi. He sells aircraft parts and thinks that the CEO has to sign the release papers every time a mechanic installs his parts... talk about lack of knowledge of his own industry.

At least I earn my own money, have my own companies and am openly controlable by the moderator.
I take your comment as a personal insult because you twist my words on purpose. ( I didn't say that the CEO underwrites those papers, I just asked if a supervisor would do it. And I always said that I am not active in the aviation industry, I am active in manufacturing, mainly metals and special materials, used often in aviation )
Untill further notice I am the only member of this forum with indepth technical metallurgical knowledge, according my degrees and experience. I have tried to give positive contributions to this forum, thinking that some members would be interested. I had some very interesting chats with members who contributed information I was not aware of, for example Smoke Jumper when we talked about degreasing agents and the contamination.
I would like to have a chat with you about how you would contain the aluminium content in Inconel601 as a casting. Or how you would solve the problem of different tensile strength after HT ( =heat treatment ) in forgings in 1.4462 ( duplex steel, to make it easier for you to google, and when you have found it, learn what duplex steel is )
If you can help me and my associates with some new technologies to machine titanium ( I don't even want to bother you with the different grades) and magnesium, we are listening.
Oh, sorry, not aviation related?
Let's go to the special materials I am active in. PTFE, PEEK and polyimide . You as a so called important person of a new airline will have to follow a crash course because it are the materials of the high quality seals that are used in aviation. If you will have to buy spare parts for leaking hydraulics, you should at least know how to distinguish a PTFE seal from a NBR ring. ( please inform me if you will just rely on the certificate from your Chinese supplier: I will never enter an airplane under your control. And don't tell me that the green mark is a guarrantee because the Chinese supply rings under the brand name Viton , while it is inferior material. And don't tell me that when you receive a turquoise O-ring it is automatically a Busak Shamban / Trellenborg seal. I know how to check the difference between a real one and you don't. )

And the different techniques to manufacture carbon fibre products. You will have to know it in the future because if you have damage on a CF panel, you will have to decide if you can repair it or if you have to install a new part.

I staid out of this topic for some time untill I noticed something was wrong. Your sudden personal remark says enough. Untill further notice , BeOnTop is a trade mark of melting cheese and nothing related to aviation.
If Be OnTop would be a real project, the managment should inform their legal department that because of the most ridiculous postings on a forum by somebody who claims to speak in their name, their investment is endangered before take off.

[Stij]

Regi, calm down, this guy isn't worth a high blood pressure!

Cheers mate,

Stij

[regi]

Regi, calm down, this guy isn't worth a high blood pressure!

Cheers mate,

Stij

Oh, is it a guy?

[Flogger]

I have seen none of that knowledge being shared anywhere on this forum.
Most of your comments are bashes at other people, so I do not believe that you deserve any pity.

As to aerospace parts manufacturing, it's very far from anything of the actual aviation world.
You manufacture parts and components to customer specs (so you probably don't even design them yourself).
You could know your specialty very well, you could be the best at what you do, it just doesn't give you the right to say anything about everything in aviation and to pretend you know everything and proclaim yourself the god of aviation.

Here's why:
You are clearly expressing some illusions about aircraft maintenance and airworthiness compliance. I will assure you that not a single aviation mechanic or engineer would be able to detect an "inferior material" in a component. In fact, it's the manufacturer's responsibility to appoint approved suppliers/vendors who in turn must deliver parts in accordance with the specifications as described in its type certificate.
There is not a single airline or MRO in the world that does labo checks on its incoming parts (unless there is obvious transport damage, in which case they would refuse it at delivery, or clearly detectable deviation from specs in which case they would be returned to the supplier) and not a single mechanic or engineer that would inspect a part further than through basic visual means and through its label/forms.
Every aircraft has millions of different parts. Engineers and mechanics do not have detailed composition or description available for every single part at delivery. At best, some good technical drawings and general descriptions can be found in the manuals.
Airlines/MRO's are required to do an audit when selecting a new parts supplier but they go nowhere as far as checking the calibration dates of CNC machines.
Only when something occurs, an investigation is opened. Most airlines don't have capabilities to do material composition studies in-house as it requires specialized equipment. These occurrences are very rare and also rarely lead to accidents thanks to fail safe principles applied to critical components, training and procedures for operating crews.

Given your knowledge field, ie materials, I must disappoint you but your knowledge alone probably doesn't cover 0.1% of what it takes to build an actual airplane, let alone design a component of it. Choosing a material is only one small chapter in the process of the design of a component.
Making a component based on something someone else designed is fairly easy, there's millions of people who do that everyday.
It takes thousands of guys like you with different and very precise specialties to get to design an aircraft and even then they come nowhere near where airlines would expect them to be in terms of perfection.

As you show, you do not have much knowledge of how or by whom the parts are processed and installed, let alone how they are maintained/followed-up and how they relate to other systems, probably not even where or how they are installed in the huge puzzle that is each airplane.
As an example, you want to show off that you know much about CFRP manufacturing. However I promise you, if tomorrow I tell you to go to an outstation in the middle of nowhere and do a repair on the CFRP engine cowling of an A333 in the rain and fast because the airplane has to leave asap, you wouldn't know what to do other than to do it in your pants.
That just proves how limited your knowledge is in the real world outside your factory door.

As far as you're concerned, your job ends at the factory door together with your knowledge.
Besides, it's totally unrelated to the actual operation of aircraft.
I tell you, I've seen much but I'm sure that all I've seen is only a piece of a jigsaw puzzle that counts trillions of pieces and as such I have always shared idea's with modesty and respect where respect was mutual.
I would never start making claims on things I don't know and pretend they are absolute. Any fair argument that has an idea and a thought behind it deserves a proper counter argument.

If you stand by your comments, starting now you will never board any aircraft in your life again. I would expect that you would rather ignore your principles and board an airplane soon.
Given all this, it wouldn't kill you to showcase more modesty rather than unjustified ego.

Don't worry, I will be gone for another couple of months but I'll be watching you.

[Desert Rat]

And the different techniques to manufacture carbon fibre products. You will have to know it in the future because if you have damage on a CF panel, you will have to decide if you can repair it or if you have to install a new part.

Just for info Khun Regi:
Note that a the repair on a CF Panel, will most of the time be done through the SRM using Aluminum fasteners and regular aluminium patches.This is what I learned recently. I'm talking about skin panels, not Beam,Longeron's and other's Frame.Krub...

[DeltaWiskey]

admin, are double accounts allowed on luchtzak, could you please check the ip-adress by NCB & Flogger, i'm 99% certain that they are one and the same.

Double accounts are not allowed, indeed. Since NCB is no longer a member of Luchtzak, his IP has disappeared from our records; hence there is no way to check whether Flogger is the same person. Nothing can prevent former member NCB to re-register under another name if he wishes. But again, we have no way to check, and it is not our role as long as there is no double registration.

Lol, how is that possible...
Just a few weeks ago, I already asked to check IP's as this all seemed to make very little sense, and then you said "you did your job", which implies you did (double) check the accounts and IP's. Now you are saying that isn't possible.
Then again, if he is the same person as 'NCB', this is (at least) his 2nd account and double registration. Don't see how can deny this.
What a poorly run forum, Imo.

[Stij]

You could know your specialty very well, you could be the best at what you do, it just doesn't give you the right to say anything about everything in aviation and to pretend you know everything and proclaim yourself the god of aviation.

And what degree, experience, job... gives you the right to do so?

Cheers,

Stij who apparently has to shut up as from now because he has no expirience whatsoever in aviation but some resa time and being self loading cargo.

[sn26567]

Imortant message to the participants in this discussion

Some members have been complaining that things are seriously going out of hand. There are members (they will recognise themselves) who are not behaving correctly by writing comments that hurt several other aviation enthousiasts, and even attacking personally other members.

I could lock this topic, but we are still waiting for more information about the future of BeOnTop Airlines. Therefore I am sending a last warning before suspending some accounts: please refrain from aiming at other members, please respect other people's opinions.

Thanks to all!

[regi]

Imortant message to the participants in this discussion

Some members have been complaining that things are seriously going out of hand. There are members (they will recognise themselves) who are not behaving correctly by writing comments that hurt several other aviation enthousiasts, and even attacking personally other members.

I could lock this topic, but we are still waiting for more information about the future of BeOnTop Airlines. Therefore I am sending a last warning before suspending some accounts: please refrain from aiming at other members, please respect other people's opinions.

Thanks to all!

thank you - honnestly.

[BeOnTop]

btw is the pax terminal at LGG big enough for such operations? 2 1 class 77W's = 1000 pax
i would like to see it in action but not as a shareholder

LGG Airport suggest a capacity of 1.500.000 pax a year.
Places are free right and left of the terminal allowing large extentions.
Extentions parking spaces are also planned.

[BeOnTop]

... [at LGG] ... Since the 70's all attemps of schedule flights have always failed: Sabena couldn't fill a Beech 1900 to London in those days, up to recently with the aborted flights to Lorient, Jetairfly regular dayly flight to BCN, the flights to Albania which just moved to BRU etc..

Indeed, most of the LGG projects failed, I have analysed seven of them: i notice two big mistakes that are quite recurent: a complete lack of capital and a commercial service reduced: two or three people. Air Exell begin with 27.500 € and a young commercial out of Solvay not even yet dry behind his ears .... This is not modern aviation.
Just know now that you need a capital equal to 3 month of exploitation without sales (EASA 2008), and that Belgium DGTA is even more strict. So you can't begin with at least 5 Mo € ... . And it must be 50% of capitals from UE. Not talking about the postholders that must have now high qualifications accepted by the authorities. Time and Things have changed ... You'll be never more in the 70's ...

[BeOnTop]

Lord fretn, Cathay, Novastar, Top-lipanebas, Delta Wiskey (a brew?) Stij-Top, Regi-Top, an-148, cnc, Novastar, and may be "flogger" and others ...
Be free to suggest us new short european runways ...
you know the rules ...: A318 , 1600 M, overrun 100M max
Your welcome ...

[FLYAIR10]

BeOntOp,
Some ideas,
2 candidates for the near future but with a runway of 1500m for the time being...
Antwerp-Deurne. Runway may be 'extended' a bit for take off....
Kassel-Calden in Germany. Expansion plans at this aiport have been approved and being the first airline offering scheduled flights could be an advantage.runway will be extended.

Firenze peretola. runway of 1700m
London city . 1500m only..
Cannes - Mandelieu Airport .1610m.
Groningen-eelde airport .1800 & 1500m

Grtz.